Public Pension Millionaires

[BK]

Re: Public Pension Millionaires

Santafe, In many cases the cost of schools is a huge part of the municipal problems. But, look at California where the school department may be connected to the county, but the cost is levied with property taxes at a local level.

Consider that many communities have found it easy to raise property taxes to pay for school salaries as the Federal Reserve has allowed everyone who has a mortgage to refinance at 30-40 year low in interest rates. Let's see how this works in a future when interest rates can no longer go down and the refinancing boom of the last 100 years is now over.

Read this article on Detroit...I thought pensions and labor weren't part of the problem..
"Unions have also promised to challenge Detroit’s plan, calling the cut to pensions and the more severe, 70 to 80 percent, cut to retiree healthcare an “abomination." Pensioners are being asked to give up a significant portion of their annual income in Detroit’s plan."
http://www.governing.com/news/headli...edibility.html

Then there is this story of Vallejo California bankruptcy, that include this paragraph "A big part of the shift has to do with pensions. Employee pensions and other retiree benefits aren’t the only cause of municipal distress, but they’re a major factor. Cities’ obligations to retired employees are gobbling up a larger and larger share of local budgets. In San Jose, Calif., for example, the city’s pension payments jumped from $73 million in 2001 to $245 million in 2012, roughly 27 percent of that city’s general fund budget. But tinkering with those obligations can be next to impossible. Fiscally distressed cities have sought relief by raising taxes and cutting services, but they often hit a brick wall when it comes to contract adjustments. And even in cases where they can negotiate a new labor agreement, existing pension agreements have legally been untouchable." http://www.governing.com/topics/fina...oing-away.html

Keep saying that Union wages and a huge contributing factor.....

regards

[Woodsman]

Re: Public Pension Millionaires

Santafe, In many cases the cost of schools is a huge part of the municipal problems...

One trick is all that horse can do.

[lektrode]

Re: Public Pension Millionaires

One trick is all that horse can do.

uhhhh, woody?

'one trick pony' ?

nears eye can tell, that describes your argument purrrfectly and which seems to revolve around:

public sector .edu-welfare-industrial complex spending is always good -

esp if it lands in the laps of those so employed - esp if they work in the depts that the lib-left-dem-progressive-social-political 'scientist' types all seem to be drawn to (mostly due to the VERY generous perks/bene's/pensions/months of timeoff per year)

and anybody who questions the MORE MORE MORE (for them) mantra gets labeled as a patsy for the oligarchy/kochs/rightwing - and altho i might not be as educated (or indoctrinated) as some, i can sense patterns pretty well (scored high in 'pattern recognition' on some test i took once upon a time)

always interesting that the most controversial stuff around here revolves around this POV - even more interesting that those with this same POV are even interested in a site like the itulip ?? - i mean, if all you wanted to do was argue about the same stuff (the culture wars + identity politix) thats divided The US since the 90's (when the prev 'triangulator' and their bunch was busy giving away the keys to the beltway/treasury) one would think theres much better places to spend your time?

not that i dont appreciate your attempts to enlighten us - just that i personally dont come here for this stuff, but will admit to getting sucked into it - typing as one who happens to think the the .gov and their apologists (read: lib-left-dem-progressive-social-political 'scientist' types) THE PROBLEM - and NOTHING they've done since 2009 has been a solution for ANY of THE PROBLEMS their politix have created.

but it has been very good for them (the lib-left-dem-progressive-social-political 'scientist' types and THEIR very generous perks/bene's/pensions/months of timeoff per year)

[santafe2]

Re: Public Pension Millionaires

Keep saying that Union wages and a huge contributing factor.....

BK, I don't have a dog in this fight and I probably should have considered the sub-text before publicly thanking Woodsman without explanation. I don't disagree with either of your points of view and I don't have any great answers so I just read and move on. The site Woodsman posted was, for me, a very useful one from an investing point of view. I view it from an utterly agnostic political or social point of view. I simply have some assets I'd like to consider investing in muni bonds.

Although the site appears to have a political and/or social agenda, it's also presenting a set of investing facts that are useful. I think that's important for you to consider. If you have evidence that this site has fixed the numbers and substantially more than 1:1668 municipalities have gone bankrupt, that would be interesting to me. My last post was simply a thank you for a pointer in my quest to conserve capital. My goal is not nearly as lofty as your soliloquy would suppose.

[Woodsman]

Re: Public Pension Millionaires

uhhhh, woody?

'one trick pony' ?

nears eye can tell, that describes your argument purrrfectly and which seems to revolve around:

public sector .edu-welfare-industrial complex spending is always good -

esp if it lands in the laps of those so employed - esp if they work in the depts that the lib-left-dem-progressive-social-political 'scientist' types all seem to be drawn to (mostly due to the VERY generous perks/bene's/pensions/months of timeoff per year)

and anybody who questions the MORE MORE MORE (for them) mantra gets labeled as a patsy for the oligarchy/kochs/rightwing - and altho i might not be as educated (or indoctrinated) as some, i can sense patterns pretty well (scored high in 'pattern recognition' on some test i took once upon a time)

always interesting that the most controversial stuff around here revolves around this POV - even more interesting that those with this same POV are even interested in a site like the itulip ?? - i mean, if all you wanted to do was argue about the same stuff (the culture wars + identity politix) thats divided The US since the 90's (when the prev 'triangulator' and their bunch was busy giving away the keys to the beltway/treasury) one would think theres much better places to spend your time?

not that i dont appreciate your attempts to enlighten us - just that i personally dont come here for this stuff, but will admit to getting sucked into it - typing as one who happens to think the the .gov and their apologists (read: lib-left-dem-progressive-social-political 'scientist' types) THE PROBLEM - and NOTHING they've done since 2009 has been a solution for ANY of THE PROBLEMS their politix have created.

but it has been very good for them (the lib-left-dem-progressive-social-political 'scientist' types and THEIR very generous perks/bene's/pensions/months of timeoff per year)

I admit that it's slightly maddening that after 600+ far ranging posts all you're able to hear is "public sector .edu-welfare-industrial complex spending is always good" and "culture wars + identity politix."

Just listen to yourself. Let a person put his allegiances with his neighbors instead of some billionaire right winger and he's a liberal. Let that person use words accurately and cite actual historical events instead of ideology and propaganda, he's a leftist. If he seeks to advance the interests of his neighbors and families and communities through action and solidarity, he's a socialist. And if he can name even a few of the people whose power and interests are served by setting his neighbors and communities at war with each other, he's a communist.

And I love the implication in the phrase "i personally dont come here for this stuff." To my ears it has this delicious "you ain't from around here, are ya boy?" tone. Or do you mean to imply something else by "one would think theres much better places to spend your time?"

One cries uncle, the other says leave. Perfect.

[BK]

Re: Public Pension Millionaires

Woodsman - how about some data ....... One Trick Pony is not my favorite Paul Simon songs.

Have you ever read "How to win friends and influence people" - can I buy you a copy.

kind regards.

[Woodsman]

Re: Public Pension Millionaires

Woodsman - how about some data ....... One Trick Pony is not my favorite Paul Simon songs.

Have you ever read "How to win friends and influence people" - can I buy you a copy.

kind regards.

You only see data that supports your biases, BK. I sent you to Governing, gave you a slew of data and that's when you decided you didn't want to play with me anymore, remember?

As for Carnegie, manipulation and deception aren't my really style. Is that how you got so good, BK?

Charles Manson's Turning Point: Dale Carnegie Classes
Dale Carnegie Training, the self-help program that’s shaped the lives of such people as Warren Buffett, Johnny Cash, and Emeril Lagasse, can claim an additional ardent disciple: Charles Manson.

In his new book, Manson: The Life and Times of Charles Manson, author Jeff Guinn credits Carnegie training with transforming Manson from “a low-level pimp” to the “frighteningly effective sociopath” who created a cult of killers in the late 1960s. Manson took classes in “How to Win Friends and Influence People,” based on Carnegie’s iconic book, while doing time for car theft in a California federal prison in 1957. ”It was critical in shaping how he manipulated people,” says Guinn, noting that the young convict told people he’d enrolled to get strangers to open up to him.
http://www.businessweek.com/articles...rnegie-classes

[BK]

Re: Public Pension Millionaires

Woodsman..
I agree with your point about Dale Carnegie.

Falling mortgage rates have been a resulted in the biggest boom in public sector wages in history.

Good night.

[jk]

Re: Public Pension Millionaires

I admit that it's slightly maddening that after 600+ far ranging posts all you're able to hear is "public sector .edu-welfare-industrial complex spending is always good" and "culture wars + identity politix."

i've got over 7000 posts and have learned that even in the relatively civil dialogues we have here, it is impossible to change the minds of idealogues and people with an idee fixe. as i mentioned in an earlier post, bk has been posting attacks on teachers and their incomes on a regular basis since 2006. it is apparently a more important issue for him than the FIRE industry and its machinations, which is a more common topic in this community. i had the theory for a while that bk was always attacking teachers because he hated his parents. now, given his recent reply to me which shed some oblique light on that issue, i think that it's because they missed out on what he thinks is the gravy train. the biggest municipal bankruptcy of which i'm aware apart from detroit is that county in alabama that was reamed by the banks- as i think you referenced. sometimes these discussions do bring out some interesting points, but when it's clear that it's a dialogue of the deaf it's time to just give up on the thread.

[BK]

Re: Public Pension Millionaires

JK,
Public union pay packages are tied to FIRE. Come'on they are financed by the ability to raise property taxes based on rising real estate values.

How about the poor retired guy that is living off a private sector pension that hasn't seen a increase in his pension and sees everything he purchases going up.

Yes. I have not changed my tune since 2006 -
"it is impossible to change the minds of idealogues" - we are all idealogues- thank god we live in a society where we can all disagree.

best regards

[vt]

Re: Public Pension Millionaires

"If you confiscated all the wealth of the Forbes 400 (The richest billionaires) you would only be able to run the Federal government for less than a year" Kyle Bass.

The spending spree is going to run out of other peoples money. Those that don't understand the limits of what government can do are like an Ostrich with his head in the sand.

[jk]

Re: Public Pension Millionaires

JK,
Public union pay packages are tied to FIRE. Come'on they are financed by the ability to raise property taxes based on rising real estate values.

How about the poor retired guy that is living off a private sector pension that hasn't seen a increase in his pension and sees everything he purchases going up.

Yes. I have not changed my tune since 2006 -
"it is impossible to change the minds of idealogues" - we are all idealogues- thank god we live in a society where we can all disagree.

best regards

rising property values don't lead to increased tax revenues because mill rates are adjusted to the new tax roll to be adequate to fund the town budget. it's the budget process and the cowardice of politicians that push taxes up.

as hudson points out, the financialization of the economy and the gov't sponsored subsidization of mortgage debt leads to increased interest revenue for the fire sector, while undercutting the ability of people to pay taxes to support proper infrastructure.

[jk]

Re: Public Pension Millionaires

"If you confiscated all the wealth of the Forbes 400 (The richest billionaires) you would only be able to run the Federal government for less than a year" Kyle Bass.

The spending spree is going to run out of other peoples money. Those that don't understand the limits of what government can do are like an Ostrich with his head in the sand.

false dichotomy. and we're succumbing to the oligarch's diversionary tactics, focusing on secondary issues when we have middle class people tearing each other down while ignoring how the FIRE industries are sucking our country dry.

[Woodsman]

Re: Public Pension Millionaires

"If you confiscated all the wealth of the Forbes 400 (The richest billionaires) you would only be able to run the Federal government for less than a year" Kyle Bass.

The spending spree is going to run out of other peoples money. Those that don't understand the limits of what government can do are like an Ostrich with his head in the sand.

If you're going to act as an agent of the oligarachy, you might do a little better than repeat this tired cant.

Speaking of agents, how's the quality of life in McLean these days? Pretty sweet, I hear. It's a beautiful place full of nice, intelligent and industrious folks. Property values have been outstanding, too. Unemployment is way below the national average and I don't think they've seen a down year since the start of the crisis.

Ever wonder what Northern Virginia would be like if there were no federal government and beltway bandits around to feed the local economy? How might that impact your livelyhood and your quality of life, I wonder?

Must be hard living in such a socialist nightmare, though. If only the people of McLean weren't so mired in depedency...

[Andreuccio]

Re: Public Pension Millionaires

i've got over 7000 posts and have learned that even in the relatively civil dialogues we have here, it is impossible to change the minds of idealogues and people with an idee fixe. as i mentioned in an earlier post, bk has been posting attacks on teachers and their incomes on a regular basis since 2006. it is apparently a more important issue for him than the FIRE industry and its machinations, which is a more common topic in this community. i had the theory for a while that bk was always attacking teachers because he hated his parents. now, given his recent reply to me which shed some oblique light on that issue, i think that it's because they missed out on what he thinks is the gravy train. the biggest municipal bankruptcy of which i'm aware apart from detroit is that county in alabama that was reamed by the banks- as i think you referenced. sometimes these discussions do bring out some interesting points, but when it's clear that it's a dialogue of the deaf it's time to just give up on the thread.

For me, the purpose of engaging with the ideologues isn't to convince them. As you correctly point out, that's a lost cause.

Rather, the point is so their misrepresentations and obfuscations won't be left standing unanswered for the many others reading this thread. It's their opinions you might be able to sway.