IRS's Lerner, Treasury Secretly Drafted New Rules To Restrict Conservative Groups

[Forrest]

Re: IRS's Lerner, Treasury Secretly Drafted New Rules To Restrict Conservative Groups

All of this politicianing in Ways and Means are nice theatrics...is anything actually going to happen to Lerner?

[Thailandnotes]

Re: IRS's Lerner, Treasury Secretly Drafted New Rules To Restrict Conservative Groups

One of the key problems today is that politics is such a disgrace, good people don't go into government. - Donald Trump


IRS hearings are another Republican circus

Dave Camp had a secret.

The House Ways and Means Committee chairman was ready to send the panel’s files on former IRS official Lois Lerner to the Justice Department for a possible prosecution — a handover that could have been accomplished with a simple phone call to the attorney general. Instead, Camp put on a show.

The Michigan Republican invited the press and the public to the committee’s storied hearing room Wednesday, only to call an immediate vote to kick them out. This way, the panel could meet in a closed session to debate Lerner’s fate — a dramatic but meaningless gesture because the sole purpose of the secret meeting was to authorize releasing the committee’s files on Lerner to the public.

Republicans said the closed session was required to make the information public, but the panel’s ranking Democrat, Sandy Levin (Mich.), said the debate should be held in the open.

“Mr. Chairman?” he inquired after the plan to go into secret session was announced.

Camp ignored Levin. “The clerk will call the roll,” he said.

“Mr. Chairman?”

“The clerk will call the roll.”

“Mr. Chairman?”

“The clerk will call the roll.”

Levin pressed on, patiently raising a point of order.

“Just chill out,” the 60-year-old Camp finally snapped at his 82-year-old colleague.

“I’m very chilled out,” Levin replied.

This was true. Levin hadn’t raised his voice at all. Camp, on the other hand, was agitated — for good reason.

The lawmaker, who is retiring at the end of this term, has built a solid reputation over the years, and he recently won plaudits for releasing a thoughtful proposal to overhaul the tax code. Camp was on course to retire with dignity — at least until he allowed his committee room to be turned into a circus tent Wednesday. It was a folly wrapped in a charade and shrouded by farce.

Folly: There was no need to have a formal hearing to convey the information to the Justice Department, which is already investigating the IRS’s targeting of conservative groups.

Charade: The committee made a big show of having its secret hearing, even though it was a foregone conclusion that the members would vote along party lines to release its “secret” information — including the transcript of the secret hearing — to the public.

Farce: Camp said Lerner could be prosecuted for releasing private taxpayer information. Yet in making public its Lerner files, the committee used its authority to do legally the same thing it accused her of doing illegally: releasing confidential taxpayer information. That hadn’t been done in at least 40 years.

Of course, the taxpayers whose information was released — mostly related to Karl Rove’s Crossroads GPS group — may not mind, because they have an interest in seeing somebody pay for the IRS’s targeting of a disproportionate number of tea party groups for extra scrutiny.

The IRS scandal didn’t come close to the “culture of corruption” Camp promised or the “targeting of the president’s political enemies” and coverup alleged by Darrell Issa (R-Calif.), whose committee is holding the contempt vote. Instead, the investigations didn’t go beyond Lerner, a civil servant who led the agency’s tax-exempt division. “This was a career employee in the IRS potentially who did all these things,” Camp said after Wednesday’s secret session. “So we have to make sure that the signal goes out that this doesn’t happen again.”

That’s a reasonable sentiment, and one shared by Levin, who on Wednesday said Lerner had been guilty of “clear mismanagement.” Democrats objected not to Camp turning over the committee’s information on Lerner, but to the cloak-and-dagger hearing followed by the wholesale release of tax records.

The AP’s Stephen Ohlemacher asked Camp why he didn’t just “pick up the phone” rather than make private taxpayer files public.

Camp agreed that such a release was unprecedented but said, “This is so important that I think the public has a right to know.” He repeatedly called the matter “important” and “a very serious thing.”

But the chairman’s claims of importance were undermined by his committee’s antics, including its showy secrecy. Reporters, waiting out the two-hour closed session in the hallway, were treated to Krispy Kreme doughnuts by the committee’s staff. But inside the room, other staffers were unplugging the journalists’ cables, just to be sure nobody pierced the veil.

When Camp reconvened the hearing after the secret session, cameramen called out for him to wait as they reassembled their equipment. Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) complained. “Are you guys ready?” he moaned.

But Camp waited, which was wise. What good is a farce if it isn’t on film?

[lektrode]

Re: IRS's Lerner, Treasury Secretly Drafted New Rules To Restrict Conservative Groups

One of the key problems today is that politics is such a disgrace, good people don't go into government....
.....
IRS hearings are another Republican circus....
....
Reporters, waiting out the two-hour closed session in the hallway, were treated to Krispy Kreme doughnuts by the committee’s staff. But inside the room, other staffers were unplugging the journalists’ cables, just to be sure nobody pierced the veil.....
....
..........
What good is a farce if it isn’t on film?

never mind in print - but at least they got some donuts.

altho the biggest circus of them all - which popped up, altho Propped-Up would be more accurate - the big top - happened all thru 2007-09 into '10 - but they dont wanna focus on any of that... uhhh... Inconvenient Truth

ahhhh.... quite the show, aint it?

the Big D's corruption matched only by Big R's ineptitude - which is amplified, of course, at every opportunity - by the lamestream media...

merely the latest distraction - the big D's using gays/guns/god - while the R's use taxes and tea...

[vt]

Re: IRS's Lerner, Treasury Secretly Drafted New Rules To Restrict Conservative Groups

At least Jon Stewart and Matt Taibbi call out corruption on both sides of the political divide.

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2014/04...he-daily-show/

"When you lose Jon Stewart and Matt Taibbi, you've lost the Millennials" VT

[vt]

Re: IRS's Lerner, Treasury Secretly Drafted New Rules To Restrict Conservative Groups




Democrat Elijah Cummings Faces Up to Five Years in Federal Prison

Posted by Jim Hoft on Wednesday, April 9, 2014, 10:07 PM

Rep. Elijah Cummings (D-MD) could face up to five years in federal prison for obstructing a Congressional proceeding.
On Wednesday, Oversight Committee Chairman Darrell Issa (R-CA) and five Subcommittee Chairmen on the committee sent a letter to Ranking Member Cummings demanding an explanation for his staff’s queries from the IRS, why the Minority hid these efforts from the Majority, and why the Ranking Member denied such actions by his staff at a February Subcommittee hearing:

“Although you have previously denied that your staff made inquiries to the IRS about conservative organization True the Vote that may have led to additional agency scrutiny, communication records between your staff and IRS officials – which you did not disclose to Majority Members or staff – indicates otherwise,” wrote the Chairman and five Subcommittee Chairmen of the Oversight Committee. “As the Committee is scheduled to consider a resolution holding Ms. Lerner, a participant in responding to your communications that you failed to disclose, in contempt of Congress, you have an obligation to fully explain your staff’s undisclosed contacts with the IRS.”

This is not good news for Cummings.
According to Cornell.edu Cummings could go to prison for five years for obstructing Congressional proceedings.
Via The American Journal:

Whoever, with intent to avoid, evade, prevent, or obstruct compliance, in whole or in part, with any civil investigative demand duly and properly made under the Antitrust Civil Process Act, willfully withholds, misrepresents, removes from any place, conceals, covers up, destroys, mutilates, alters, or by other means falsifies any documentary material, answers to written interrogatories, or oral testimony, which is the subject of such demand; or attempts to do so or solicits another to do so; or
Whoever corruptly, or by threats or force, or by any threatening letter or communication influences, obstructs, or impedes or endeavors to influence, obstruct, or impede the due and proper administration of the law under which any pending proceeding is being had before any department or agency of the United States, or the due and proper exercise of the power of inquiry under which any inquiry or investigation is being had by either House, or any committee of either House or any joint committee of the Congress—
Shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years or, if the offense involves international or domestic terrorism (as defined in section 2331), imprisoned not more than 8 years, or both.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014...ederal-prison/

[Thailandnotes]

Re: IRS's Lerner, Treasury Secretly Drafted New Rules To Restrict Conservative Groups

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c4s_jEOCHY

soon to be...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eNnu5ODlrU

[Woodsman]

Re: IRS's Lerner, Treasury Secretly Drafted New Rules To Restrict Conservative Groups

Who will charge him? Will Rep. Issa do a citizens arrest? This thing has jumped the shark. Using IRS as a political bludgeon is a Washington tradition and no party will do anything substantive that will deny them this power, would you agree?

[don]

Re: IRS's Lerner, Treasury Secretly Drafted New Rules To Restrict Conservative Groups

A fight over the spoils - they both work for the same outfit . . . (but we're supposed to ignore that little tidbit)

[santafe2]

Re: IRS's Lerner, Treasury Secretly Drafted New Rules To Restrict Conservative Groups

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c4s_jEOCHY

soon to be...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eNnu5ODlrU

Really? The US is going to have a majority of women in Congress and it's going to look like a really bad version of WrestleMania? Well played. I bet they can go from 4% support to 10% just by providing cat fights. Damn, that is hope you can believe in.

[flintlock]

Re: IRS's Lerner, Treasury Secretly Drafted New Rules To Restrict Conservative Groups

I think any open minded individual can see that this IRS business is just wrong. That fact both sides do it or not has no bearing. Its full blown corruption of the system and I believe, signifies a major milestone in the decline of the country. Only partisan hacks will try and defend it. I was a GW Bush basher and I bash Obama as well. In fact, I think its a small minority in Congress that are not corrupted by the current system. Democrat vs Republican is like watching two Mafia Dons divide split up their ill gotten gains. There is no knight in shining armor here.

[Thailandnotes]

Re: IRS's Lerner, Treasury Secretly Drafted New Rules To Restrict Conservative Groups

There is no knight in shining armor here.

There are tens of thousands of KINSA.

[dcarrigg]

Re: IRS's Lerner, Treasury Secretly Drafted New Rules To Restrict Conservative Groups

I think any open minded individual can see that this IRS business is just wrong.

Of course it's wrong. And why shouldn't we expect it? All of our leaders are thieves. The IRS stopped going after offshore tax dodgers in the 1980s. It's like a game. It's in the newspapers all the time.

Every leader of every big firm is dodging billions.

Every leader of every medium firm is dodging millions.

Every politician is dodging hundreds of thousands.

Every small-business owner is dodging tens-of-thousands.

Every individual is dodging thousands.

The example is set at the top. The richest men in the country don't pay their taxes. The IRS does nothing to enforce it. Instead of setting an example for everyone to follow, they dodge, and whine, and cry, and lobby, and write op-eds, and buy TV stations, and build webs of offshore tax shells. And after they buy off the bureaucrats and politicians to let them do it, well, you can't expect the politicians to play by the rules if their bosses don't, can you? And if elected leaders don't, then why the hell should anyone else?

Instead of creating a shining city on a hill and setting a positive example for the world, we have robber-barons and crooks. Instead of justice we have corruption. Instead of liberty we have license. Instead of hard work we have speculation. Instead of free speech we have money. Instead of people's rights we have corporations'.

Bloomberg News actually has a whole damn category of stories now called The Great Corporate Tax Dodge. Nobody is playing by the rules. Nobody wants to. And if the IRS isn't bothering to collect taxes from the wealthiest among us, why wouldn't its idle hands move on to doing some other mischief?

When you work for an agency that's absolutely not allowed to do the thing it was created to do, then it's going to go off on weird missions and get hijacked for other purposes. Look at the DOJ with Fast and Furious. Well, they're absolutely not allowed to arrest anyone significant or wealthy or with notoriety. So they go and find other things to do. Many may not be above board. It doesn't matter which party's at the helm for that.

Seems to me a lot of what are listed here are symptoms. We've not only come to expect that our leaders will not have honesty or integrity. We've come to expect them to be cruel, selfish, and actively working against folk with less than themselves to advance their own position. And so they do. And regular folk emulate their leaders. Always have; always will. We get a dog-eat-dog culture of pure social darwinism, greed, gluttony, lust - just name a sin. The richest men are all tax dodging monopolists again. We have seen this all before.

In my mind, the two biggest problems facing the country right now are 1) a lack of justice, which leads to a lack of honesty and integrity and all these ills and bad examples at the top, and 2) getting this healthcare mess solved. #2 is the key issue in terms of dollars and cents. #1 is the key issue in terms of the nation's soul.

"The same disease," I said, "as that which arose in the oligarchy and destroyed it, arises also in this regime—but bigger and stronger as a result of the license—and enslaves democracy. And, really, anything that is done to excess is likely to provoke a correspondingly greatchange in the opposite direction—in seasons, in plants, in bodies, and, in particular, not least in regimes."

"That's probable," he said.

"Too much freedom seems to change into nothing but too much slavery, both for private man and city."

"Yes, that's probable."

"Well, then," I said, "tyranny is probably established out of no other regime than democracy, I suppose—the greatest and most savage slavery out of the extreme of freedom."

"Yes," he said, "that's reasonable."

"But I suppose you weren't asking that," I said, "but rather what disease, growing naturally in oligarchy and democracy alike, enslaves
the latter."

"What you say is true," he said.

"Well, then," I said, "I meant that class of idle, extravagant men. The most courageous part of them leads, the less courageous part
follows. It's just these whom we liken to drones, some equipped with stings, others without stings."

"That's right," he said.

"Well, then," I said, "when these two come into being in any regime, they cause trouble, like phlegm and bile in a body. And it's against them that the good doctor and lawgiver of a city, no less than a wise beekeeper, must take long-range precautions, preferably that they not come into being, but if they do come into being, that they be cut out as quickly as possible, cells and all."

"Yes, by Zeus," he said, "completely."

"Well, then," I said, "let's take it like this so that we may more distinctly see what we want."

"How?"

"In the argument let's divide the city under a democracy into three parts, which is the way it actually is divided. One class is surely that which, thanks to the license, grows naturally no less than in the oligarchic city."


Thats so. "But it's far fiercer here than in the other."

"How's that?"

"There, due to its not being held in honor but being driven from the ruling offices, it is without exercise and isn't vigorous. But in a democracy, presumably, this class, with few exceptions, leads, and its fiercest part does the speaking and the acting, while the rest alight near the platform and buzz and don't endure the man who says anything else; the result is that everything, apart from a certain few exceptions, is governed by this class in such a regime."

"Quite so," he said. "Well, there is also another class that always distinguishes itself from the multitude,"

"What class?"

"Presumably when all are engaged in money-making, the men most orderly by nature become, for the most part, richest."

"Likely."

"Then I suppose that it is there that the most honey, and that easiest to get to, can be squeezed out by the drones."


"How," he said, "could one squeeze it out of those who have little?"

"Then I suppose such rich men are called the drones' pasture."


"Just about," he said. "And the people who be the third class, all those who do their own work, don't meddle in affairs, and don't possess very much. Whenever they assemble, they constitute the most numerous and most sovereign class in a democracy."

"Yes, they do," he said. "But they aren't willing to assemble very frequently unless they get some share of the honey."

"Therefore, they always get a share," 1 said, "to the extent that the leaders, in taking away the substance of those who have it and distributing it among the people, are able to keep the greatest part for themselves."


"Yes," he said, "they do get a share in that way."


"Then I suppose that those men whose property is taken away are compelled to defend themselves by speaking before the people and by doing whatever they can."


"Of course." "For this they are charged by the others, even if they don't desire to make innovations, with plotting against the people and being oligarchs."


"Of course." "And, therefore, when they see that the people are trying to do them an injustice, not willingly but out of ignorance and because they are deceived by the slanderers, they at last end up, whether they want to or not, by becoming truly oligarchs; they do not do so willingly, but the drone who stings them engenders this evil too."

"That's entirely certain."

"And then come impeachments, judgments, and contests against one another."


"Quite so."

[vt]

Re: IRS's Lerner, Treasury Secretly Drafted New Rules To Restrict Conservative Groups

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepa...ngNewsCarousel

[Woodsman]

Re: IRS's Lerner, Treasury Secretly Drafted New Rules To Restrict Conservative Groups

Is this not a politically conservative and politically partisan web site? It characterizes itself as..."The Conservative News & Opinion Magazine"


Recall that these topics are divisive. Political arguments do not help us put our heads together to answer the question of what's going to happen and how can we prepare ourselves and those we love.

Townhall Magazine is the hottest monthly conservative magazine for politics, investigative reporting, news, conservative humor, culture, and commentary from your favorite authors and personalities.
Want to look at a sample issue? Click here
Each issue of Townhall Magazine is filled with news and commentary you need. Each month you can look forward to receiving:

• Conservative commentary from top policymakers and news analysts.
• Insightful features and exposes completely exclusive to print.
• HamNation from HotAir.com Editor-at-Large Mary Katharine Ham.
• The Closing Argument from S.E. Cupp. "

I don't see how sourcing a partisan, conservative pro-GOP site helps us.

But then I click over to a link on Jesse's site and damn if it doesn't take me to one of the most left of center sites I know.

AlterNet is an award-winning, progressive news portal that combines original investigative reporting, breaking news culled from around the web, and smart analysis from America's most influential progressive voices-- including Bill Moyers, Michael Moore, Naomi Klein, Barbara Ehrenriech, Michael Pollan, Roberto Lovato, and many others. ... At AlterNet, we do award-winning journalism that caters to the priorities of progressives like you, not to the right-wing priorities you see every day in the corporate media.

Well crap. What do I do now? Politics and the political are everywhere and people seem insisting on taking a side, or at least a point of view. And most of them are mutually exclusive, with us or agin' us type positions.

But EJ seems to have proposed a method I can get behind. Political arguments do not help us put our heads together to answer the question of what's going to happen and how can we prepare ourselves and those we love. Maybe if the post helps us answer the questions "what's going to happen and how can we prepare ourselves and those we love" it's okay? I'd really like to have some consensus on this moving forward, because I am confused as to what the community wants and if I still have a place here in the conversation.

I don't intend to leave, but I don't want to spend time posting or expressing a perspective on the actualities of the times if it's not going to be perceived as helpful or moving the conversation forward.

[vt]

Re: IRS's Lerner, Treasury Secretly Drafted New Rules To Restrict Conservative Groups

A statement of fact from newly discovered emails to wrap up a thread.