Electric car free charging station roll out

[Fox]

Re: Electric car free charging station roll out

First, the electric drive motor is vastly more reliable than an internal combustion engine, so it is a penalty to weight but not really to reliability.

I wasn't actually speaking of the electric motor. Their reliably and almost no maintenance is one of the things I like about electircs. However it's all the interconnects and electronic sensors a Hybrid requires that make me cringe.

A reliable motor yes, but connect that to a generator, connected to an ICE, connected to a battery, connected to a Regen breaking system, and now you have lots of points of failure that don't exist in non-hybrids.

I think though reliability and cost of the battery pack has come a long way. A quick scan around and some say their batteries are still going strong at 15 years and the replacement cost are down to low $2K; similar to a transmission replacement. It helps their case some, but I still cringe at what all those electronics will cost when the sensors and wiring start to corrode. (a particular consideration up here in Canada with all the salt thrown onto our roads. I swear if the temperature doesn't warm up soon so I can wash my car, deer are going to start coming out of the bush to lick the side panels)

[DSpencer]

Re: Electric car free charging station roll out

If you want to go cross country, fly. No one is going to do that on a daily basis.
Yep, he got two Nissan Leafs for 150 a month each. I think they wanted to make way for the new models. No, he is buying them at that price.
The cars here are already semiautonomous. Automatic collision avoidance, if you stray from the lane it warns you, etc.
The appliances here use 1/3rd or even 1/10th the electricity they do in the US.
Really, take a trip. You will be shocked. US engineers who come here are just in shock when they see the energy efficiency.

So what prevents these appliances from being sold in the US? They are too expensive? They sacrifice utility in some way?

I have read that Japan uses 1/2 the energy of the US per capita. A story about one family mentioned their energy efficient appliances but also that they just didn't run their A/C much because it was too expensive and also shared their bathwater. While there's nothing wrong with simple conservation, those latter two represent some sacrifice in quality of life, at least in my view.

[GRG55]

Re: Electric car free charging station roll out

So what prevents these appliances from being sold in the US? They are too expensive? They sacrifice utility in some way?

I have read that Japan uses 1/2 the energy of the US per capita. A story about one family mentioned their energy efficient appliances but also that they just didn't run their A/C much because it was too expensive and also shared their bathwater. While there's nothing wrong with simple conservation, those latter two represent some sacrifice in quality of life, at least in my view.

India probably uses 1/10th the energy per capita of the USA. All power to them. But like you I don't feel compelled to follow that example, and I suspect neither do the overwhelming majority of my fellow citizens up here north of the 49th.

I am fascinated by the continuous undertone that somehow what some other nation does is always more virtuous than the "corrupt, collapsing, failing empire, bankrupt, over-indebted, militaristic, nationalistic, ungovernable, jingoistic United States of America". I especially loved all the chatter a couple of months ago about Putin and how the Russians have risen above the USA in world influence. They can't even get the toilets to work in Sochi fergawdsake. I am waiting for some pictures of Putin, shirtless, wielding a pipe wrench and showing the locals how to do plumbing.

[BP]

Re: Electric car free charging station roll out

So what prevents these appliances from being sold in the US? They are too expensive? They sacrifice utility in some way?

I have read that Japan uses 1/2 the energy of the US per capita. A story about one family mentioned their energy efficient appliances but also that they just didn't run their A/C much because it was too expensive and also shared their bathwater. While there's nothing wrong with simple conservation, those latter two represent some sacrifice in quality of life, at least in my view.

The size difference between the average Japanese house compared to an American one should also factor in the per capita energy usage. My wife grew up in a five person household that lived in about 650 square feet. That being said, the Japanese culture tends to be thrifty and their standard tech level in common use is often ten to fifteen years ahead of ours.

[DSpencer]

Re: Electric car free charging station roll out

I am waiting for some pictures of Putin, shirtless, wielding a pipe wrench and showing the locals how to do plumbing.

Except for one thing: pipe wrenches are for weak Americans and Canadians. Putin does plumbing with his bare hands.

[DSpencer]

Re: Electric car free charging station roll out

The size difference between the average Japanese house compared to an American one should also factor in the per capita energy usage. My wife grew up in a five person household that lived in about 650 square feet. That being said, the Japanese culture tends to be thrifty and their standard tech level in common use is often ten to fifteen years ahead of ours.

Right. A case can be made that Americans should live in smaller houses, but what I'm wondering about is the technology argument. Why do they have more efficient technology? Is it because their energy costs make it rational to invest more in the upfront purchase if it saves energy? Is it because the appliances are more efficient but less effective? Is it just Japanese culture to buy high tech gadgets for fun? All of the above? Some other factor?

[lektrode]

Re: Electric car free charging station roll out

Right. A case can be made that Americans should live in smaller houses, but what I'm wondering about is the technology argument. Why do they have more efficient technology? Is it because their energy costs make it rational to invest more in the upfront purchase if it saves energy? Is it because the appliances are more efficient but less effective? Is it just Japanese culture to buy high tech gadgets for fun? All of the above? Some other factor?

thats my vote
i mean, IRR = yield
and in their version of ZIRP, what else can ya do?

[lektrode]

Re: Electric car free charging station roll out

.... Oh, and by the way, climate change is real even if you dont like it.

not arguing with you on this one, moon, as i also believe its happening - but HOW/WHY WE GOT HERE is the question.

conservation/tech-driven innovation is one thing, and a good/admirable thing to boot - but do you really believe shutting down all the nukes is a solution ?

thats where the disconnect (tween idiotlogical vs rational debate) is VERY REAL, doncha tink?

[EJ]

Re: Electric car free charging station roll out

not arguing with you on this one, moon, as i also believe its happening - but HOW/WHY WE GOT HERE is the question.

conservation/tech-driven innovation is one thing, and a good/admirable thing to boot - but do you really believe shutting down all the nukes is a solution ?

thats where the disconnect (tween idiotlogical vs rational debate) is VERY REAL, doncha tink?

In comparing adoption of technologies that reduce energy consumption and costs in the U.S. versus Japan, having visited Japan on a dozen occasions on business in the late 1980s during the boom, through the early 1990s after it, and through the mid-2000s long after it, my outsiders' observation is that Japan's adoption of energy conservation technology is driven primarily by two factors: 1) culture, and 2) necessity.

The cultural frugality is tough to measure, but that hasn't kept economists from trying. While I cannot state the Japan is a nine on a one to ten cultural frugality scale, suffice it to say that none of the Japanese I know are likely to argue with the assertion that Japanese tend to be more frugal than Americans.

As for necessity, GDP per capita has not improved much in Japan over the past 23 years, rising only 6%, whereas in the U.S. it has grown 26% over the same period.

Americans have more money to waste on large, heavy, inefficient cars, gigantic homes, and old appliances.

[lektrode]

Re: Electric car free charging station roll out

In comparing adoption of technologies that reduce energy consumption and costs in the U.S. versus Japan, having visited Japan on a dozen occasions on business in the late 1980s during the boom, through the early 1990s after it, and through the mid-2000s long after it, my outsiders' observation is that Japan's adoption of energy conservation technology is driven primarily by two factors: 1) culture, and 2) necessity....

and after 24years in a state where KWH's cost upwards of $.44 each, where a big chunk of the local population is culturally-connected, i can/will vouch for this

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: Electric car free charging station roll out

..In comparing adoption of technologies that reduce energy consumption and costs in the U.S. versus Japan...

I have never been to Japan, but back around 1990 two researchers from the Japanese Automobile Research Institute visited our group to discuss our work.
Talking in my office, one of the JARI people explained that Japan had tax policies intended to get older cars off the road quickly- the taxes on a car become dramatically higher after just a few years.
This policy encouraged buying new autos from their important auto industry; the newer, lower emissions cars helped clean up the air in Tokyo, Yokohama, Osaka; the better fuel economy helped... they saw many benefits of keeping their auto fleet young.

People from Japan do seem to feel differently than Americans on some of these issues.

[don]

Re: Electric car free charging station roll out

Speaking of Japan, does this have any legs?

[vinoveri]

Re: Electric car free charging station roll out

As for necessity, GDP per capita has not improved much in Japan over the past 23 years, rising only 6%, whereas in the U.S. it has grown 26% over the same period.

Americans have more money to waste on large, heavy, inefficient cars, gigantic homes, and old appliances.

Apologies for the digression but per capita stats get me thinking of GINI et cet. Does GDP or wealth per capita reflect standard of living per capital across the two cultures? Has the standard of living of the average American increased 26% vs only 6% for average Japanese? Standard of living % increase per quintile vs per capita would be a helpful stat.

[GRG55]

Re: Electric car free charging station roll out

Apologies for the digression but per capita stats get me thinking of GINI et cet. Does GDP or wealth per capita reflect standard of living per capital across the two cultures? Has the standard of living of the average American increased 26% vs only 6% for average Japanese? Standard of living % increase per quintile vs per capita would be a helpful stat.

Aren't most measures of "standard of living" highly ephemeral? Even a Gen Y'er is unlikely to measure their standard of living (and "quality of life") using many of the same criteria as their parents...and that is in the same society, not across an ocean as Japan and the USA are. Methinks it's impossible to avoid apples and oranges comparisons...and thus not generally particularly useful.

I suppose some criteria such as lifespan, infant mortality rates and so forth can truly be objectively compared across populations, countries, time periods. But once again I am not convinced most people would factor those into their own measure of standard of living for themselves...

[vinoveri]

Re: Electric car free charging station roll out

Aren't most measures of "standard of living" highly ephemeral? Even a Gen Y'er is unlikely to measure their standard of living (and "quality of life") using many of the same criteria as their parents...and that is in the same society, not across an ocean as Japan and the USA are. Methinks it's impossible to avoid apples and oranges comparisons...and thus not generally particularly useful.

I suppose some criteria such as lifespan, infant mortality rates and so forth can truly be objectively compared across populations, countries, time periods. But once again I am not convinced most people would factor those into their own measure of standard of living for themselves...

Perhaps it is a bit too subjective for empirical determination, and with a good deal of propaganda and advertising we can all be pacified to some extent; of course a poor person alive today likely has a higher standard of living than and emperor of 1000 BC.

How about wealth inequality growth/gradient as a better objective measure? Throw some opportunity fo upward mobility and some freedom, rule of law and coarsenss of culture/crime in there for some subjective measure.

My point is that per rising per capita growth does not readily translate to "a rising tide lifts all boats", and is therefore and inappropriate measure of "economic sucess" of a culture.