Big Biz Knows: Middleclass - Adios!

[lektrode]

Re: Big Biz Knows: Middleclass - Adios!

Thank you Woodsman, I appreciate it.

It is good to be among this group of kindred souls... even if we have so many opinions that are anything but kindred.

+1
on both.

[Woodsman]

Re: Big Biz Knows: Middleclass - Adios!

not supporting the idea of direct confiscation and redistribution, but in fact $6400 would make a huge difference in many people's lives. data on giving cash to the poor show that many will use it in long-term benficial ways for themselves and their families- just off the top of my head e.g. a reliable used car or car repairs to be able to get to jobs. even if "wasted" on consumption, almost all that money would be SPENT and give an enormous boost to retail sales, gdp and monetary velocity. then there's a multiplier we need to estimate....

it may be the case that an extra $6400 would not be lifechanging for most members of this community, but we shouldn't dismiss the value of money for those with truly limited or absent resources.

Not lifechanging for most of us? For most us it would be the equivalent of finding a twenty dollar bill, in terms of life changing. And that's why I think most of us here can't relate to the question.

Maybe instead of asking if $6400 would change the lives of the poor (of course it woud - they're poor - "duh" as the young ones say), we should be asking how long would it take a family of 5 living in poverty to save $6400?

Frankly, this "consfiscation" argument is a red herring intended to redirect our attention. Thrifty beat me to it:

The hubris and arrogance of this theorem is staggering. It smells a bit like the divine right of kings.

[Penguin]

Re: Big Biz Knows: Middleclass - Adios!

I've done quite a bit of it depending on the job, but the best jobs for me include both thinking and a physical aspect. I guess I am just a builder. I like building things. Like producing things. Like seeing them go out the back door of the plant headed to market. But I have to admit that there are terrible dirty jobs just like there are terrible white collar ones.

Nowadays my main product is research and papers. But I still get a chance every now and again to do an engine build or a repair job or whathaveyou. In my heart I still think I would have made a great mechanic. Maybe I flatter myself. A lot of our attitudes about work come from our folks I suppose. A lot of it from our environment too. Some of it kind of funny to me. Even my own attitudes tickle my funny bone at times.

Can't sharpen a knife? Can't sight in a rifle? Can't change the oil in your car or fix a flat tire? Can't unstop a drain or rewire a light fixture? Can't cut down a tree and make it into firewood? A no to these (and a hundred other questions like them) triggers a good natured but half serious reply that stays hidden in the back of mind and never passes my lips: "And you call yourself a man!? What the hell are you good for then?"

Will

[lektrode]

Re: Big Biz Knows: Middleclass - Adios!

.02 from J6p?

there needs to be a grand plan from the .gov that focuses on a complete rebuild of the infrastructure that made The USA what it is (or what it was up til the end of 2008, tho some might say the end of 2000 - but i did pretty well 2003-2009, so i'm somewhat biased to that time frame)

without this, with no tech advances on the horizon that would give us a lift like we saw in the '90's - there really isnt much that the private sector can do (after the FIreM brigade has sucked out all the 'surplus' that happened in the '90's thru the oughts) - esp since most of the techno gadgetry thats been developed created most of the jobs elsewhere - while these 'advances' are now measured in terms of screen size, hi-def, sound quality = all subjective BS that adds not a GD thing to our quality of life or prosperity in the general sense - they did in the 90's thru the oughts, as the wildwildweb built out - but lately, all of these advances are merely re-arranging the deck chairs (while continuing to offshore the bulk of job creation)

i personally think it needs to start with a QUANTUM LEAP TO A LIMITLESS SOURCE OF ENERGY (measured in KWH's, NOT BTU's)

without this most basic of building blocks, there is not much hope - and the .gov HAS TO LEAD on this, not follow (along the campaign contributor hog trough)

unforetunately we are suffering from an absolute lack of leadership - a vacuum in fact - as they are simply focused on peeling off another layer of the onion (electorate) to gain another sliver of 1% of margin of 'victory'

the events/policies of the current reign of incompetence (since 2007) proves it absolutely.

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: Big Biz Knows: Middleclass - Adios!

Frankly, this "consfiscation" argument is a red herring intended to redirect our attention. Thrifty beat me to it:

As, Perkins statements about the 1% being persecuted are mean't to distract from what is really going on, the actual confiscation of all productivity gains into the hands of the few by increasing the debt levels exponentially not only on consumers but business and governments.

[wayiwalk]

Re: Big Biz Knows: Middleclass - Adios!

Sounds like the philosophy of a Credit Union or a Co-op as opposed to a Bank?

I agree, I thought the same thing...and brings to mind those institutions that must battle the bank lobbyists who would like to take away the credit union business model or at least their non-profit advantages.

[wayiwalk]

Re: Big Biz Knows: Middleclass - Adios!

"The lives of the 400 would change. They would owe no taxes, employ no one, buy no goods or services, and invest in nothing"

Let's think of this as a one time event.

Then just think how it would incentivize the next 400 hundred richest in america to make it on the "Forbes 400" list, even to bust their humps since now they'd have a chance to be listed in the top ten, or even, number 1.

[pianodoctor]

Re: Big Biz Knows: Middleclass - Adios!

Indeed I am.

Hope this doesn't sound snarky but "sophisticated investors" only or something the 99% can participate in?

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: Big Biz Knows: Middleclass - Adios!

Hope this doesn't sound snarky but "sophisticated investors" only or something the 99% can participate in?

The Securities and Exchange Commission makes it pretty tricky to offer investments to people who are not "accredited investors".
This from the SEC website, emphasis mine:http://www.sec.gov/answers/accred.htm

Accredited Investors

Under the Securities Act of 1933, a company that offers or sells its securities must register the securities with the SEC or find an exemption from the registration requirements. The Act provides companies with a number of exemptions. For some of the exemptions, such as rules 505 and506 of Regulation D, a company may sell its securities to what are known as "accredited investors."
The federal securities laws define the term accredited investor in Rule 501 of Regulation D as:

1. a bank, insurance company, registered investment company, business development company, or small business investment company;
2. an employee benefit plan, within the meaning of the Employee Retirement Income Security Act, if a bank, insurance company, or registered investment adviser makes the investment decisions, or if the plan has total assets in excess of $5 million;
3. a charitable organization, corporation, or partnership with assets exceeding $5 million;
4. a director, executive officer, or general partner of the company selling the securities;
5. a business in which all the equity owners are accredited investors;
6. a natural person who has individual net worth, or joint net worth with the person’s spouse, that exceeds $1 million at the time of the purchase, excluding the value of the primary residence of such person;
7. a natural person with income exceeding $200,000 in each of the two most recent years or joint income with a spouse exceeding $300,000 for those years and a reasonable expectation of the same income level in the current year; or
8. a trust with assets in excess of $5 million, not formed to acquire the securities offered, whose purchases a sophisticated person makes.

For more information about the SEC’s registration requirements and common exemptions, read our brochure, Q&A: Small Business & the SEC.
http://www.sec.gov/answers/accred.htm

Let's hope EJ has found a way around this to serve a wider clientele.

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: Big Biz Knows: Middleclass - Adios!

The Securities and Exchange Commission makes it pretty tricky to offer investments to people who are not "accredited investors".
This from the SEC website, emphasis mine:http://www.sec.gov/answers/accred.htm


Let's hope EJ has found a way around this to serve a wider clientele.

Actually that's for a hedge fund. If you were to open a money management or RIA (registered investment advisor) you can offer financial services to anyone of any income level.

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: Big Biz Knows: Middleclass - Adios!

Actually that's for a hedge fund. If you were to open a money management or RIA (registered investment advisor) you can offer financial services to anyone of any income level.

Excellent PoZ! I'll root for that.

[BadJuju]

Re: Big Biz Knows: Middleclass - Adios!

The hubris and arrogance of this theorem is staggering. It smells a bit like the divine right of kings.

It is fairly insulting, to say the least. You would have to be very removed from reality to think this way.

[ER59]

Re: Big Biz Knows: Middleclass - Adios!

not supporting the idea of direct confiscation and redistribution, but in fact $6400 would make a huge difference in many people's lives. data on giving cash to the poor show that many will use it in long-term benficial ways for themselves and their families- just off the top of my head e.g. a reliable used car or car repairs to be able to get to jobs. even if "wasted" on consumption, almost all that money would be SPENT and give an enormous boost to retail sales, gdp and monetary velocity. then there's a multiplier we need to estimate....

it may be the case that an extra $6400 would not be lifechanging for most members of this community, but we shouldn't dismiss the value of money for those with truly limited or absent resources.

The history already gave us a lesson - V.I. Ulyanov (Lenin), 1917 Russia

[Woodsman]

Re: Big Biz Knows: Middleclass - Adios!

The history already gave us a lesson - V.I. Ulyanov (Lenin), 1917 Russia

Oh yea, it's the October Revolution all over again. Dogs and cats sleeping together, too. A plague of toads and locusts. Next thing you know, our first born are taken.

It's a bit over the top, no? Look at our history and compare that to Russia's. Could two societies be so vastly different than the US in 2014 and Russia in 1914?

I understand you are a Russian immigrant and I won't assume to know the reality of your experience there. But increasing taxes on the 1% isn't exactly the same as the Bolshies storming the Winter Palace. It's hyperbole like this that makes it so difficult to have a rational conversation on the matter. Why indulge in these association fallacies?

[jk]

Re: Big Biz Knows: Middleclass - Adios!

The history already gave us a lesson - V.I. Ulyanov (Lenin), 1917 Russia

no, no, no. get with the program!

tom perkins and steven schwartzman have fixed the trope, and they have the money to be truly interested parties. unless you're a billionaire, er59, your allusions don't count. perkins: kristallnacht, schwartzman: the nazis invade poland.