The Trials of Gov. Christie

[lakedaemonian]

Re: The Trials of the Governed

I'm definitely no fan of Christie(I reckon he's the epitome of the hybrid one party candidate) but could all of this be a distraction:

http://watchdog.org/123437/wisconsin-john-doe-irs/

The partisan prosecution in Wisconsin sounds pretty serious buts gets no mass media time.

[Woodsman]

Re: The Trials of the Governed

I'm definitely no fan of Christie(I reckon he's the epitome of the hybrid one party candidate) but could all of this be a distraction:

http://watchdog.org/123437/wisconsin-john-doe-irs/

The partisan prosecution in Wisconsin sounds pretty serious buts gets no mass media time.

The Franklin Center is a Koch Bros front. What they do is partisan advocacy disguised as journalism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankli...egrity#Funding
http://www.cjr.org/united_states_pro...m.php?page=all
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2012/07...tate-ne/187059

At least three staffers at the organization previously worked for Americans for Prosperity, "the most prominent political group backed by the Koch brothers." Erik Telford, the Franklin Center's vice president of strategic initiatives & outreach, previously served as director of marketing and online strategy for Americans for Prosperity; Mary Ellen Beatty, Franklin Center director of citizen outreach, oversaw communications for Americans for Prosperity's 32 state chapters; and Alicia Barnaby, Coalitions Coordinator, was previously AfP's Development Associate for Corporate Relations. The Franklin Center's director of development, Matt Hauck, has been an associate at the Charles G. Koch Charitable Foundation. Even one of the Center's directors, Rudie Martinson, previously worked for a Koch-backed organization, as an assistant state director for AfP.

The Kochs funnel donations (almost $12 mil last year) through the right wing piggy bank, Donor's Trust:

"DonorsTrust offers anonymity to wealthy donors who do not want to make their donations publicly.The organization assures its conservative donors that their donated funds will never be used to support liberal causes.

Other than that it is completely objective and nonpartisan.

[santafe2]

Re: The Trials of the Governed

I'm definitely no fan of Christie(I reckon he's the epitome of the hybrid one party candidate) but could all of this be a distraction:

I think the board is getting way to worked up over a very small time scandal. It used to be you could kill people and get away with it. It's not like he drove his car off that bridge, killed his passenger and got sited for 'leaving the scene of an accident'....now that's a good scandal. How about Don Siegelman rotting in a federal prison because he pissed Karl Rove off one too many times? And Rove is still too powerful for anyone to touch. Dick Cheney shot his friend in the head and got an apology for getting in the way...the press couldn't even turn it into a scandal...now that's power. Our ex-governor Richardson is such a criminal the Obama administration had to tell him he was too crooked to work with the Chicago boys...no jail of course but he's stuck on the speaking circuit. Did Christie forget the guy in the White House is a Chicago politician? They sell each other's Senate seats, (Blagojevich). Now if he was paying for hookers with Hurricane Sandy money...that's a respectable scandal...but, "I'll screw with your traffic!", is he serious?

You can spot a good politician by how big a scandal they can get away with and it looks like Christie's going to get crucified for stupidity and what I'm sure sounded like a hilarious idea after a few beers. What is this country coming to?

[Woodsman]

Re: The Trials of the Governed

I think the board is getting way to worked up over a very small time scandal. It used to be you could kill people and get away with it. It's not like he drove his car off that bridge, killed his passenger and got sited for 'leaving the scene of an accident'....now that's a good scandal. How about Don Siegelman rotting in a federal prison because he pissed Karl Rove off one too many times? And Rove is still too powerful for anyone to touch. Dick Cheney shot his friend in the head and got an apology for getting in the way...the press couldn't even turn it into a scandal...now that's power. Our ex-governor Richardson is such a criminal the Obama administration had to tell him he was too crooked to work with the Chicago boys...no jail of course but he's stuck on the speaking circuit. Did Christie forget the guy in the White House is a Chicago politician? They sell each other's Senate seats, (Blagojevich). Now if he was paying for hookers with Hurricane Sandy money...that's a respectable scandal...but, "I'll screw with your traffic!", is he serious?

You can spot a good politician by how big a scandal they can get away with and it looks like Christie's going to get crucified for stupidity and what I'm sure sounded like a hilarious idea after a few beers. What is this country coming to?

"Dick Cheney shot his friend in the head and got an apology for getting in the way...the press couldn't even turn it into a scandal...now that's power."

santafe, thanks for giving me a chuckle. it's been a dog turd of a day and you made it better

[santafe2]

Re: The Trials of the Governed

santafe, thanks for giving me a chuckle. it's been a dog turd of a day and you made it better

You're welcome Woodsman...It's sad, I think all the big time criminals have moved to Wall Street. There's just so much more power and money there. Obama might eat your kids lunch to get a few votes but Jamie Diamond would eat your kid just to see what he tasted like. Even railroad barons and oil barons had to be careful they didn't overstep their bounds, but not Wall Street, they own the place.

[vt]

Re: The Trials of the Governed

Gosh Woodsman, I thought you didn't care about right or left.

As Ronnie said: "There you go again!"

Bringing up the Koch brothers in a discussion of Democrat dirty tricks in Wisconsin. You can't be evenhanded and call out the Dems for their tricks in Wisconsin. You gotta bring up the Koch brothers from left field. Sure they've partisanship on steroids and definitely on the right wing. But you never bring up their evil twin on the left: Soros and his evil group of interlinking groups.

Like I've been saying both sides are corrupt. But legitimate governance in Wisconsin is being subverted the progressives pissed that the people of Wisconsin have thrown out the crooked bums.

Woodsman, you just have to learn to be even handed

Your fellow ituliper VT

[don]

Re: The Trials of the Governed

You're welcome Woodsman...It's sad, I think all the big time criminals have moved to Wall Street. There's just so much more power and money there. Obama might eat your kids lunch to get a few votes but Jamie Diamond would eat your kid just to see what he tasted like. Even railroad barons and oil barons had to be careful they didn't overstep their bounds, but not Wall Street, they own the place.

made that my "Quote of the Day"

thanks Santa . . .

[Woodsman]

Re: The Trials of the Governed

Gosh Woodsman, I thought you didn't care about right or left.

As Ronnie said: "There you go again!"

Bringing up the Koch brothers in a discussion of Democrat dirty tricks in Wisconsin. You can't be evenhanded and call out the Dems for their tricks in Wisconsin. You gotta bring up the Koch brothers from left field. Sure they've partisanship on steroids and definitely on the right wing. But you never bring up their evil twin on the left: Soros and his evil group of interlinking groups.

Like I've been saying both sides are corrupt. But legitimate governance in Wisconsin is being subverted the progressives pissed that the people of Wisconsin have thrown out the crooked bums.

Woodsman, you just have to learn to be even handed

Your fellow ituliper VT

Them's quite a bit of emoticons there, pad'ner. Feelin' a bit emotional today? Me too, but entirely for non-partisan and political reasons. Now to your point.

Again, it goes back to considering the source of the information. Did you not notice the source of the information, vt? Did you not see their deception about who they are and who funds them? Now why would a partisan, right wing organization present itself as an independent, non-partisan news agency? Why do you imagine it is necessary to lie about it?

I brought up the Kochs because it was relevant to the discussion. A story was posted looking to make some sort of equivalency between what occurred in NJ and what took place in WI. To demonstrate that equivalency an appeal to a source was employed and I question the veracity of the source. I did not bring up Soros for a variety of reasons, primarily because in my mind there was no relevance in doing so.

As for the specifics of the claim made in the post, I said nothing about them at all. I neither supported the claims or rejected them. The entirety of my comment was restricted to the ideological nature of a group that insists it is neutral and to the source of its funding. I made no mention of anything regarding the claims of the piece.

I'm pleased that you are able to discern the radical nature of the Koch machine, but regret in your eagerness to "catch me" that you seemed to have missed my point entirely. From my perspective, the moment one employs deception in their argument then all else immediately becomes suspect. In the practice of criminal law we call that Consciousness of Guilt and I find it an eminently practical approach to navigating life outside the courtroom, too.

Me, I never give someone an opportunity to lie to me again once I discover the first falsehood. And the Franklin Center/Kochs lead with lies. And yes, vt, the sun sets in the West, touching a hot stove will cause one to be burned and Democrats' lies strung end to end can reach round the globe.

VT, I am not here to live up to yours or anyone else's standards of even handedness or fairness when it comes to criticism of the right or left. As for Christie, I did say in an earlier post that I considered the Sturm und Drang over the top and charges unremarkable:

"You're right about this not being my father's Democrats. And who can recognize the GOP from the days of yore? I've said that too. And yes, that style of doing business is unremarkable for Chicago. Really, it's unremarkable for politics in general and I have to laugh seeing everyone so shocked to learn that there's gambling in the casino."

I even threw in a little equivalency just for you.

I'd ask a favor of you, vt. Can you please review my nearly 500 hundred posts and point to where I supported any living Democrat or where I expressed my allegiance to the Democratic party or any of its standing candidates? Always hungry for context, I did the same for you once and found several posts where you clearly express partisan support for GOP candidates.

You really like Scott Brown:

Brown is actually the best choice because he is more independent.

That was the message of the Brown campaign, wasn't it? His independence? But after the election, Scott proved to be something less of an independent. Now The Nation is a well known left oriented publication so for the sake of equivalency, the right leaning Politico site shares this view.

You're a big fan of Romney/Ryan, too. Now there are more than a few gushing paeans extolling the virtues of Romney either posted by you or written in your hand, but I think the chestnut below encapsulates things perfectly - sort of a "universe in a grain of sand" thing:

If elected I believe Romney-Ryan will unwind FIRE and promote TECI.

That's a curious position from someone who insists that they are a "pox on both houses" independent, vt. It's an even more curious position for an iTuliper given the record.

[lektrode]

Re: The Trials of the Governed

....am not here to live up to yours or anyone else's standards of even handedness or fairness when it comes to criticism of the right or left. As for Christie, I did say in an earlier post that I considered the Sturm und Drang over the top and charges unremarkable:

"You're right about this not being my father's Democrats. And who can recognize the GOP from the days of yore? I've said that too. And yes, that style of doing business is unremarkable for Chicago. Really, it's unremarkable for politics in general and I have to laugh seeing everyone so shocked to learn that there's gambling in the casino."

....

lets just say woody - that this whole farce - manufactured by the lamestream media - is oh-so-typical big city/bluestate politix.

as you say, "unremarkable"

so - WHY is so much ink/bandwidth being spilled over it?

its SIMPLE - the liberal-dominated op/ed depts of the lamestream media are TERRIFIED that a guy like christie is being seen as a national-level LEADER

esp when compared to THEIR chosen one in 2008/12

thats the REAL story - and
THEY WILL STOP AT NOTHING TO DRAG HIM THRU AS MUCH MUD AS THEY CAN POSSIBLY FLING AT HIM

and the events of 2008/12 PROVE IT CONCLUSIVELY

well... to some of us, anyway.

[Woodsman]

Re: The Trials of Gov. Christie

it's usually the coverup that proves fatal . . .

And the lies.

"I have had no contact with David Wildstein in a long time, a long time, well before the election,” which was held Nov. 5, Mr. Christie said last week. “You know, I could probably count on one hand the number of conversations I’ve had with David since he worked at the Port Authority. I did not interact with David.”

And now the bridge scandal really takes off, because Christie has been caught in a lie. And exposed by the left wing, liberal, Democratic Party mouthpiece Wall Street Journal, no less.

Here is Chris Christie, center-left, having no contact with David Wildstein, red tie with hand reaching out to Christie on 9/11/13, while the Fort Lee fiasco was in its 3rd day.

Here is another photo of Governor Christie not interacting with Wildstein.



Christie declined an opportunity to lie the Wall Street Journal.

------------

Christie, Official Who Arranged Bridge Closures Were Together During Fiasco

Gov. Chris Christie was with the official who arranged the closure of local lanes leading to the George Washington Bridge on Sept. 11, 2013 — the third day of the closures, and well after they had triggered outrage from local officials beset by heavy traffic.

more

[flintlock]

Re: The Trials of Gov. Christie - Not what he appears

I agree Christie is being attacked for political advantage.

But, people out side of New Jersey have a better opinion of him than he deserves.

He appears to be a new fresh face when in reality he is no different than any Democrat or Republican, except he's likes to make a big splash.

Two weeks before Christmas the immigrant groups of new jersey (undocumented mostly) was very upset with Christie, as the immigrants came to Christie's aid in his bid for re-election and they immigrants had been offered goodies for voting.

Here: http://reportehispano.com/news/2013/...-los-dreamers/
Translation here:
http://www.microsofttranslator.com/b...os-dreamers%2F

Christie made lots of noise about changes he wanted in a bill granting tuition to children of undocumented immigrants, then the on December 20th when most are busy with holiday preparations and preparing for a Winter break he signed the law (or when as few are paying attention as possible).
see story here
http://reportehispano.com/news/2014/...-los-dreamers/
http://www.microsofttranslator.com/b...os-dreamers%2F

Christie is the trying to be the classic King of illusion. Everyone in the country believes Christie has reformed property taxes in New Jersey, in reality the bill Christie got signed to restrict property tax increase is near useless.

I would love if Christie was a true fiscal conservative- but, much of what the country believes about him is an illusion.

Voters still want the free lunch.

Agree. Christie is being attacked by the left because he is a threat, but that does not mean he is not guilty. He's a RINO, a loose cannon, and your basic professional politician with a phony gimmick. The gimmick is to portray himself as different because he's a "straight shooter" who speaks bluntly and often rudely. I'm not falling for it. The fact many do shows just how shallow and superficial most voters are. They pay attention to personality and bluster more than actions. The guy lacks the self discipline to be President among other faults.

[BK]

Re: The Trials of Gov. Christie - Not what he appears

So, you don't think Gov Christie's weight is a result of genetics. Every time I see a picture of Governor Christie I'm reminded of the scene from the Godfather when there is a meeting in a small Italian restaurant between Michael and a Mafia boss who happens to weigh 300 lbs.

If the Gov runs for President he could make the soundtrack from the Godfather his official Campaign soundtrack.

[Woodsman]

Re: The Trials of Gov. Christie - Not what he appears

Attacked from the left? Looks like a inside job to me.

http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthr...133#post274133

Who in the GOP field would benefit if Christie self destructs, as he appears to be doing?

[Woodsman]

Re: The Trials of Gov. Christie - Not what he appears

So, you don't think Gov Christie's weight is a result of genetics. Every time I see a picture of Governor Christie I'm reminded of the scene from the Godfather when there is a meeting in a small Italian restaurant between Michael and a Mafia boss who happens to weigh 300 lbs.

If the Gov runs for President he could make the soundtrack from the Godfather his official Campaign soundtrack.

"Leave the gun. Take the cannoli."

[Woodsman]

Re: The Trials of the Governed

lets just say woody - that this whole farce [is] manufactured by the lamestream media...

Until the news of late, I admit to paying scant attention to Christie. I don't watch television and avoid most political reporting based on an understanding much like yours, lek.

But the uniformity of reaction on the right that the charges against Christie are politically motivated - somewhat true, inasmuch as the acts that precipitated them appear to be - piqued my curiosity. So I did some research and found a conservative outlier who departs from the conventional wisdom of the right and expresses concerns similar to those articulated in the Bridgegate reporting.

He just happens to be the GOP's last nominee for president. The details of Romney's view on Christie are derived from the book "DOUBLE DOWN: Game Change 2012" written by political reporters Mark Halperin and John Heilemann.

In choosing his running mate, Romney put forth two criteria and a precept for potential candidates: that they be qualified to be Commander in Chief and immediately perceived as such, and that there be nothing in their background that could become a distraction for the campaign. Concerns about security prompted staffers assigned to vet the backgrounds of prospective choices to employ code words as a means masking their efforts. They called their undertaking Project Goldfish (after the crackers) and gave each of the VP finalists an aquatic code name. Romney's short list included Christie (Pufferfish), Pawlenty (Lakefish), Portman (Filet o Fish), Rubio (Pescado) and Ryan (Fishconsin).

From the start, Romney and his staff expressed misgivings about Christie. They were particularly galled by his overbearing nature and considered him hard to work with. Romney's staff chafed at Christie's incessant demands for the trappings of power - private jets, lavish spreads of food, and luxury accommodations for a massive entourage. Romney also resented Christie's attempts to ban him from raising money in New Jersey until the Governor had given his blessing, likening it to something out of The Sopranos. “He sounds like the biggest asshole in the world,” said Romney’s chief strategist Stuart Stevens.

Romney, a stickler for punctuality and presentation, was irritated by Christie's habitual tardiness and marveled at Christie’s rotund stature. He poked fun at Christie's girth, especially his difficulties in making his way around the campaign bus and his ungainly stride. But more than obvious differences of personal style and appearance, Romney and his staff were troubled by the information their vetting exposed. Their concerns were exacerbated by Christie's reluctance to provide the information requested of him and the consistency at which his staff questioned Romney's need for details. In time the Romney team took the view that if Christie was not answering, it’s because the answer was a bad one.

The vetters were stunned by what lurked in Christie's record:

• A 2010 Department of Justice inspector general’s investigation of Christie’s spending patterns in his job prior to the governorship, which criticized him for being “the U.S. attorney who most often exceeded the government [travel expense] rate without adequate justification” and for offering “insufficient, inaccurate, or no justification” for stays at five star hotels like the Four Seasons.
• Christie's work as a lobbyist on behalf of the Securities Industry Association at a time when Bernie Madoff was a senior SIA official—and sought an exemption from New Jersey’s Consumer Fraud Act.
• Christie’s decision to steer hefty government contracts to donors and political allies like former Attorney General John Ashcroft, which sparked a congressional hearing.
• A defamation lawsuit brought against Christie arising out of his successful 1994 run to oust an incumbent in a local Garden State race.
• Suspicion surrounding Todd Christie, the Governor’s brother, who in 2008 agreed to a settlement of civil charges by the Securities and Exchange Commission in which he acknowledged making “hundreds of trades in which customers had been systematically overcharged.” Todd also oversaw a family foundation whose activities and purpose raised eyebrows among Romney's staff.
• Christie’s lobbying clients, his investments overseas, his presidential temperament, and the status of his health.

While Romney and his staff were initially impressed by Christie's brashness and his fundraising mojo, they came to the conclusion that had Romney faced Christie in the nomination fight the information they held on his background would have enabled them to destroy the NJ governor to the point where he wouldn't be able to run again.

After 11 days of effort, the decision came down to several unresolved items:

• Christie's refusal to provide details on his brother Todd's securities-fraud settlement.
• His similar reluctance to provide details on the settlement of a defamation lawsuit.
• The status of Christie's domestic household staff.
• Details of Christie's lobbying clients.
• And of secondary importance, Christie's reluctance to provide access to his medical records.

In the end, the landmines in Christie's record uncovered as a result of the Romney campaign's vetting effort - coupled with prickly NJ campaign finance laws that would limit the campaign's ability to raise money from firms doing business with the state - torpedoed Christie's chances. As history shows, Romney took a pass and selected "Fishconsin" - Paul Ryan.

Now all of this does not necessarily disprove the assertion that the attacks against Christie are politically motivated. And surely in politics everything is to one degree or another - from budget negotiations to photo ops with hero boy scouts. But to say that there's nothing there and all of the charges are groundless and unfounded takes an act of will I'm unable to muster.

I will say this - my impression of Romney's character has grown stronger, even if my view of his politics remains unmoved. I don't expect this will change anyone's mind about Christie, pro or con, but in my mind it puts to rest the canard that this is a media manufactured farce.

It's a farce, I agree, but the manufacturer seems to be none other than Christie himself.

http://swampland.time.com/2013/11/02...or-pufferfish/
http://www.amazon.com/Double-Down-Ga...dp/1594204403/