Tiger Mom is Back

[ProdigyofZen]

Amy Chua, the Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother author with a new book on "The Triple Package" where she posits that eight cultural groups in America are better than everyone else.

Chua's daughters are half Chinese and half Jewish which is a very popular pairing at schools like Harvard and they have now given themselves a new name, as Amanda Rosenberg (Google founder Sergey Brin's new girlfriend after leaving his wife) described: "I am half Chinese and half Jewish, a member of the new super race the Chew"

http://www.salon.com/2014/01/05/tige...f_superiority/

Yale Law professor Amy Chua, who would live in obscurity among the general public if it weren’t for her persona as the disgustingly smug Tiger Mom, is trolling America with yet another theory personal rant about her cultural superiority. Two years after releasing “The Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother,” a great step-by-step manual for parents who want to systematically weed out any genuine interest or passion for life that their children might innately have, Chua is releasing a book co-written with fellow Yale professor and husband Jed Rubenfeld called, “The Triple Package.”

---

In it, Chua and Rubenfeld use what reviewer Maureen Callahan calls “specious stats and anecdotal evidence” to argue that Jewish, Indian, Chinese, Iranian, Lebanese-Americans, Nigerians, Cuban exiles and Mormons are superior to other races or cultures, and “everyone else is contributing to the downfall of America.” The name of the book is derived from the three characteristics Chua and Rubenfeld make the groups so much better than everyone else: a superiority complex, insecurity (Callahan points out that these two qualities are just two different side of the same coin) and the ability for impulse control.

Callahan’s review can be summed up in her declaration that the book is “a series of shock-arguments wrapped in self-help tropes, and it’s meant to do what racist arguments do: scare people.”

[don]

Re: Tiger Mom is Back

The Chinese Food Kosher Exception made clear

Super Humans being bred in the buffet line

Holy Bok Oy!

[lektrode]

Re: Tiger Mom is Back

Amy Chua, the Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother author with a new book on "The Triple Package" where she posits that eight cultural groups in America are better than everyone else.

Chua's daughters are half Chinese and half Jewish which is a very popular pairing at schools like Harvard and they have now given themselves a new name, as Amanda Rosenberg (Google founder Sergey Brin's new girlfriend after leaving his wife) described: "I am half Chinese and half Jewish, a member of the new super race the Chew"

http://www.salon.com/2014/01/05/tige...f_superiority/

Yale Law professor Amy Chua, who would live in obscurity among the general public if it weren’t for her persona as the disgustingly smug Tiger Mom, is trolling America with yet another theory personal rant about her cultural superiority. Two years after releasing “The Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother,” a great step-by-step manual for parents who want to systematically weed out any genuine interest or passion for life that their children might innately have, Chua is releasing a book co-written with fellow Yale professor and husband Jed Rubenfeld called, “The Triple Package.”

---

In it, Chua and Rubenfeld use what reviewer Maureen Callahan calls “specious stats and anecdotal evidence” to argue that Jewish, Indian, Chinese, Iranian, Lebanese-Americans, Nigerians, Cuban exiles and Mormons are superior to other races or cultures, and “everyone else is contributing to the downfall of America.” The name of the book is derived from the three characteristics Chua and Rubenfeld make the groups so much better than everyone else: a superiority complex, insecurity (Callahan points out that these two qualities are just two different side of the same coin) and the ability for impulse control.

Callahan’s review can be summed up in her declaration that the book is “a series of shock-arguments wrapped in self-help tropes, and it’s meant to do what racist arguments do: scare people.”

altho... i could see this book selling a bunch of copies... in cities like NY, LA, SFO, CHI, MIA, SEA...
and.... ummmm....

SLC

[lektrode]

Re: Tiger Mom is Back

The Chinese Food Kosher Exception made clear

Super Humans being bred in the buffet line

Holy Bok Oy!

whoooo HAAAAA!!!!

and leave it to the micks to critique that one, eh don?

;)

[Woodsman]

Re: Tiger Mom is Back

Amy Chua, the Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother author with a new book on "The Triple Package" where she posits that eight cultural groups in America are better than everyone else.... In it, Chua and Rubenfeld use what reviewer Maureen Callahan calls “specious stats and anecdotal evidence” to argue that Jewish, Indian, Chinese, Iranian, Lebanese-Americans, Nigerians, Cuban exiles and Mormons are superior to other races or cultures, and “everyone else is contributing to the downfall of America.”

Feh. So she takes her cue from Ann Coulter with this troll performance art/guerrilla marketing thing; the remainder bins are full of this dreck.

I'm just some bakgwei with plenty of hakgwei in my bloodline, so I'm probably a bit biased, but this sort of attitude seems common among the Asians (mostly Chinese and Korean) I've known well. My town has seen a massive influx of Chinese and Koreans over the last 15 years and I first noticed it coming from high school age kids.

I felt it personally last time I made the mistake of taking a seat in a local Korean-owned tavern. Stopped in for a cocktail and experienced a hatred so palpable I could cut off a slice and take home a piece. No one looked at me or spoke to me until finally someone actually told me I did not belong there. After getting over the initial surprise, I thanked them for their candor and informed them that we were neighbors and that my home was less than half a mile away. I finished building it 25 years before any of the patrons had a single toe in the US and this tavern was nothing but wooded acreage. I finished my drink and left.

I've also worked with many Chinese and Korean people and noticed that when their guard is down they seem too comfortable in tossing this stuff off about anyone 1) who is not Asian or 2) whose @ss they believe isn't worthy of kissing. They were particularly hateful to black and hispanic people. I've heard talk indistinguishable from what one would expect in Holmes County MS or Staten Island NYC. The irony is that these same Koreans and Chinese are lightining fast with counter accusations of racism whenever they feel slighted. And then there's their propensity for cheating and lying, but I'm told that this is part of their culture too.

Thing is, xenophobia and racism works both ways. And a quick glance at American history shows what can happen to immigrant and minority communities when the natives (nativists?) feel restless.

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: Tiger Mom is Back

Feh. So she takes her cue from Ann Coulter with this troll performance art/guerrilla marketing thing; the remainder bins are full of this dreck.

I'm just some bakgwei with plenty of hakgwei in my bloodline, so I'm probably a bit biased, but this sort of attitude seems common among the Asians (mostly Chinese and Korean) I've known well. My town has seen a massive influx of Chinese and Koreans over the last 15 years and I first noticed it coming from high school age kids.

I felt it personally last time I made the mistake of taking a seat in a local Korean-owned tavern. Stopped in for a cocktail and experienced a hatred so palpable I could cut off a slice and take home a piece. No one looked at me or spoke to me until finally someone actually told me I did not belong there. After getting over the initial surprise, I thanked them for their candor and informed them that we were neighbors and that my home was less than half a mile away. I finished building it 25 years before any of the patrons had a single toe in the US and this tavern was nothing but wooded acreage. I finished my drink and left.

I've also worked with many Chinese and Korean people and noticed that when their guard is down they seem too comfortable in tossing this stuff off about anyone 1) who is not Asian or 2) whose @ss they believe isn't worthy of kissing. They were particularly hateful to black and hispanic people. I've heard talk indistinguishable from what one would expect in Holmes County MS or Staten Island NYC. The irony is that these same Koreans and Chinese are lightining fast with counter accusations of racism whenever they feel slighted. And then there's their propensity for cheating and lying, but I'm told that this is part of their culture too.

Thing is, xenophobia and racism works both ways. And a quick glance at American history shows what can happen to immigrant and minority communities when the natives (nativists?) feel restless.

I don't think I have ever been treated negatively by a Korean and I eat Korean BBQ quite often.

I will say that I have a good Korean friend who runs a fantasy football league that I am in where the entry fee is 50 dollars. For consecutive years he has cheated in the league or constructed shady draft order/trades and justifies it in anyway possible.

When I called him out on it he got very upset because I posted it "to the league" instead of to him directly. He wasn't upset he cheated he was upset that I told everyone else, a saving face ousting.

He was adopted and raised by caucasian parents along with his sister. The individuals in the league are his friends and his own father that he cheats. It is hard to reconcile the person I know outside the league manager duties of fantasy football and the one I know cheats when has the power of league manager.

As my Chinese girlfriends family says "never do business with a Chinamen and cheating is perfectly acceptable as long as no one finds out in Chinese culture."

In finance most Asians are obsessed with prestige (although this is a general finance industry obsession), this topic is discussed at length on Wall Street Oasis:http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/the-prestige-race

They also speak about ORM or over represented minorities (Asian and Indian) and URM or under represented minorities (Black and Hispanic) and what is called in Finance the "bamboo ceiling" for Asians. Generally they are good at their job but lack the people skills/soft skills to obtain managing director/CEO status.

On the other side I have a mainland Chinese friend who works as a consultant for McKinsey. She is so cheap that most of her clothes are hello kitty in origination (outside of work) and refuses to pay the extra 5 to 10 dollars per month for unlimited texts on her cellphone.

As she told me one time "stop texting as it costs me 10 cents per text and is a huge waste of time" this as I was texting her fiance also a friend. Apparently she pays for both their phones.

She prefers to communicate by email (which ironically is probably more of a waste of time than text) or call.

[don]

Re: Tiger Mom is Back

a quick glance at American history shows what can happen to immigrant and minority communities when the natives feel restless.

After all, look what the Indians did . . . .

(Sorry Woods, I couldn't resist )

[jr429]

Re: Tiger Mom is Back

Feh. So she takes her cue from Ann Coulter with this troll performance art/guerrilla marketing thing; the remainder bins are full of this dreck.

I'm just some bakgwei with plenty of hakgwei in my bloodline, so I'm probably a bit biased, but this sort of attitude seems common among the Asians (mostly Chinese and Korean) I've known well. My town has seen a massive influx of Chinese and Koreans over the last 15 years and I first noticed it coming from high school age kids.

I felt it personally last time I made the mistake of taking a seat in a local Korean-owned tavern. Stopped in for a cocktail and experienced a hatred so palpable I could cut off a slice and take home a piece. No one looked at me or spoke to me until finally someone actually told me I did not belong there. After getting over the initial surprise, I thanked them for their candor and informed them that we were neighbors and that my home was less than half a mile away. I finished building it 25 years before any of the patrons had a single toe in the US and this tavern was nothing but wooded acreage. I finished my drink and left.

I've also worked with many Chinese and Korean people and noticed that when their guard is down they seem too comfortable in tossing this stuff off about anyone 1) who is not Asian or 2) whose @ss they believe isn't worthy of kissing. They were particularly hateful to black and hispanic people. I've heard talk indistinguishable from what one would expect in Holmes County MS or Staten Island NYC. The irony is that these same Koreans and Chinese are lightining fast with counter accusations of racism whenever they feel slighted. And then there's their propensity for cheating and lying, but I'm told that this is part of their culture too.

Thing is, xenophobia and racism works both ways. And a quick glance at American history shows what can happen to immigrant and minority communities when the natives (nativists?) feel restless.

You're probably right that if you were given an attitude or told you were not welcome this has a lot to do with insecurity. This type of behavior is typical of a group or class of people that is insecure within their environment. Maybe 15-20 years ago I used to see it here in Orange County in some bars, cafes, etc. where the local patrons were certainly not welcoming of outsiders. I remember walking into a Vietnamese cafe with a buddy to meet some guy selling his car. Everyone immediately put down there utensils and proceeded to glare at us - and certainly quite a few of the characters in the bar were probably not adverse to committing violent felonies. We knew we were definitely not welcome. I would imagine this occurs across the country at various venues such as various biker bars or local hangouts for various gangs/crews, etc. But my point is that you are misguided when you are attributing this group to only asians specifically chinese or koreans. No doubt asians make shitty neighbors and horrible drivers but to expect to feel the love at a low class drinking establishment that may be primarily dominated by a specific group of people or crew is ridiculous. Do you roll into every biker bar you see and expected to be given love just because you are riding?

Going back to the original point of the posts, the tiger mom thing is bullcrap - shock & awe is a marketing strategy. But the reality is that immigrants with cultural backgrounds heavily focused on education do tend to become more successful - because it's a cultural thing! Funny enough at my business the guys that are working late and making bigger bonuses are almost always the guys from 1st or 2nd generation (I typically only hire younger people that fit our culture) immigrant families whether asian, mexican, or easter european. I contrast this to kids that work here that grew up in beach cities, coddled by their parents that might be insanely smart but almost always much lazier and really only looking to work that 8 hour shift and leave 5pm on the dot.

[jr429]

Re: Tiger Mom is Back

I don't think I have ever been treated negatively by a Korean and I eat Korean BBQ quite often.

I will say that I have a good Korean friend who runs a fantasy football league that I am in where the entry fee is 50 dollars. For consecutive years he has cheated in the league or constructed shady draft order/trades and justifies it in anyway possible.

When I called him out on it he got very upset because I posted it "to the league" instead of to him directly. He wasn't upset he cheated he was upset that I told everyone else, a saving face ousting.

Certainly only koreans cheat

As my Chinese girlfriends family says "never do business with a Chinamen and cheating is perfectly acceptable as long as no one finds out in Chinese culture."

I actually do quite a lot of business in China. This is a common naive misconception because culturally Chinese work differently. In China laws, rules, and regulations mean a lot less than they do here. So your word is important - the contract much less so. When you structure deals you make them logical, you make them win win. If you structure a deal where you give them the opportunity to burn you because you are not careful you will get burned. Here in the states it's the opposite. You can make all sorts of empty promises verbally but it's "all about the fine print" right? How many times have you heard about deals in the states where someone gets a crappy deal but they are "locked in" because they signed the contract? That would be considered "cheating" in China - in China that happens a lot less because no one gets locked in the deal always has to be win-win and you better have a Plan B or C when the deal starts getting sour for one party. It's all about paradigm.

On the other side I have a mainland Chinese friend who works as a consultant for McKinsey. She is so cheap that most of her clothes are hello kitty in origination (outside of work) and refuses to pay the extra 5 to 10 dollars per month for unlimited texts on her cellphone.

As she told me one time "stop texting as it costs me 10 cents per text and is a huge waste of time" this as I was texting her fiance also a friend. Apparently she pays for both their phones.

She prefers to communicate by email (which ironically is probably more of a waste of time than text) or call.

This goes back to immigrant culture. My Sales Director is chinese, my warehouse manager is mexican. Both of their families immigrated and are fairly well off. The other day at lunch they were joking how both of their parents have these crunchy plastic coverings on their couches and dinner table and how the couches probably only cost $300 when they purchased them in the 1980's. I recall an episode of Everybody Loves Raymond when they were making fun of italian families that did the same thing.

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: Tiger Mom is Back

Certainly only koreans cheat




I actually do quite a lot of business in China. This is a common naive misconception because culturally Chinese work differently. In China laws, rules, and regulations mean a lot less than they do here. So your word is important - the contract much less so. When you structure deals you make them logical, you make them win win. If you structure a deal where you give them the opportunity to burn you because you are not careful you will get burned. Here in the states it's the opposite. You can make all sorts of empty promises verbally but it's "all about the fine print" right? How many times have you heard about deals in the states where someone gets a crappy deal but they are "locked in" because they signed the contract? That would be considered "cheating" in China - in China that happens a lot less because no one gets locked in the deal always has to be win-win and you better have a Plan B or C when the deal starts getting sour for one party. It's all about paradigm.





This goes back to immigrant culture. My Sales Director is chinese, my warehouse manager is mexican. Both of their families immigrated and are fairly well off. The other day at lunch they were joking how both of their parents have these crunchy plastic coverings on their couches and dinner table and how the couches probably only cost $300 when they purchased them in the 1980's. I recall an episode of Everybody Loves Raymond when they were making fun of italian families that did the same thing.

Obviously not only Koreans cheat, I was giving a personal example, apparently lost in translation.

Naive? Perhaps not. This is common knowledge among the Chinese diaspora and one of the main reasons when you see families who started a business long ago together now break apart as the "oldest son" takes everything from the other family members.

That happens all the time in Asia, rarely so in Europe or America. Probably because of the so called "no contract" and the you must be as good as your word contract until of course you want to take everything in a coup.

There are tons of examples of this in China and Hong Kong etc, I guess a contract and rule of law would stop it huh?

[jr429]

Re: Tiger Mom is Back

Obviously not only Koreans cheat, I was giving a personal example, apparently lost in translation.

Naive? Perhaps not. This is common knowledge among the Chinese diaspora and one of the main reasons when you see families who started a business long ago together now break apart as the "oldest son" takes everything from the other family members.

That happens all the time in Asia, rarely so in Europe or America. Probably because of the so called "no contract" and the you must be as good as your word contract until of course you want to take everything in a coup.

There are tons of examples of this in China and Hong Kong etc, I guess a contract and rule of law would stop it huh?

In the states or europe a power grab among family members simply happens with lawyers, it's the same story all over the world as its the human nature of greed. Although it is true that more US / european companies have better succession plans in place. It is never a good idea to mix family/friends and business the saying is as true here in the US as it is in Asia. The problem with Asia is that more business owners tend to make this mistake through both nepotism and other factors resulting in family members at play in the business - THIS is certainly part of the culture and can be problematic. But it has nothing to do with dishonesty.

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: Tiger Mom is Back

In the states or europe a power grab among family members simply happens with lawyers, it's the same story all over the world as its the human nature of greed. Although it is true that more US / european companies have better succession plans in place. It is never a good idea to mix family/friends and business the saying is as true here in the US as it is in Asia. The problem with Asia is that more business owners tend to make this mistake through both nepotism and other factors resulting in family members at play in the business - THIS is certainly part of the culture and can be problematic. But it has nothing to do with dishonesty.

I can agree with some of this but your last line is my very point. The family members all work together (some harders than others usually the younger ones) to build a business then at some point in the future the eldest Chinese son usurps all power and takes control of the company kicking out the other family members: I call that dishonest but the problem is it is not seen for many years possibly decades.

I will give two examples from being personally connected to both events:

Lucio and Mariano Tan, two Chinese from the Chinese diaspora living in the Philippines started a company. They eventually grew to own Philippine National Bank, Philippine Airlines, Tanduay Industries (largest rum distiller in the world) and various other conglomerates.

A few years ago the older brother Lucio decided that the younger brother Mariano should be kicked out of the company/empire for supposed financial embezzlement.

Mariano showed up at work to be barred from entering the company HQ and was unilaterally thrown out of the company/empire.

Example 2:

Chinese guy marries Chinese girl in Philippines. Chinese guy starts a business with his wifes oldest brothers and the younger ones join in as a "family business."

Chinese guy is the one who builds the finance company from scratch and runs the day to day operations for 30+ years. Oldest brother of the wifes family decides he wants the business for himself (he is 80+ years old) although he had little hand in building the business and running it and apparently is not a "good person."

The other brothers of the family have ownership as well from the beginning along with Chinese guy, husband of the wifes brothers. There is a power struggle but if the younger brothers were to side with the guy who really built the business their total shares would outweigh the oldest brother.

Due to "cultural reasons" and "in a Chinese family the oldest brother virtually makes the rules" the younger brothers who said they would side with their sisters husband decide to go with their older brothers decision to take everything.

His own wifes brothers threw him out of the company he built.

Thats the reality in a majority of Chinese families when they obtain considerable wealth.

[jr429]

Re: Tiger Mom is Back

Thats the reality in a majority of Chinese families when they obtain considerable wealth.

That's just simply not true. Nit-picking a few stories played up by the media is not representative of the hundreds of thousands of asian owned companies across the world. I know plenty of fairly wealthy Chinese companies that have a very harmonious relationship between family members. There are always disagreements it seems but what family doesn't have disagreements?

You can nit-pick stories like this across the globe. The Mens Warehouse dude just got kicked out of the company he founded. $h!t happens. It has nothing to do with being Chinese, Korean, or American.

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: Tiger Mom is Back

That's just simply not true. Nit-picking a few stories played up by the media is not representative of the hundreds of thousands of asian owned companies across the world. I know plenty of fairly wealthy Chinese companies that have a very harmonious relationship between family members. There are always disagreements it seems but what family doesn't have disagreements?

You can nit-pick stories like this across the globe. The Mens Warehouse dude just got kicked out of the company he founded. $h!t happens. It has nothing to do with being Chinese, Korean, or American.

It seems to be more prevalent in Chinese culture. You are right this happens all around the world and I wasn't nit-picking, I picked two cases just in the last few years from personal connection to both scenarios.

One was played up in the media the other was not. But we can agree to disagree !

[jr429]

Re: Tiger Mom is Back

It seems to be more prevalent in Chinese culture. You are right this happens all around the world and I wasn't nit-picking, I picked two cases just in the last few years from personal connection to both scenarios.

One was played up in the media the other was not.

The only cultural issue at play here is the fact that asian people tend to have more family members involved in the business. Family members fighting due to greed has been occurring since the first caveman took the largest piece of meat from his father because he could. To blame chinese or korean culture for that is so plain ignorant.

http://www.nytimes.com/1998/06/20/bu...mily-feud.html