PC Roberts on the Ukrainian Question

[leegs]

Re: Hudson: Go West, Young Man!

I agree of course that currently in the USA one can keep much more of the "fruit of their labor" than one could in the former USSR (and perhaps even in current Russia although I don't know). My impetuous and negative diatribe may be somewhat exaggerated and reflects a frustration at the decline of our civilization and "beacon on hill" view of the USA - but mostly the injustices perpetrated by the corrupted system, lack of transparency, abrogation of rule of law, etc, which appear to be getting worse. I recall 25+ yrs ago when I complained to my fellow classmates about the incipient drug war or other examples of big government infringing cherished liberties either through criminalization or regulatory/administrative law, the response I typically received was: "Stop whining, we're still a lot more free than the Soviet Union", incredible, as if freedom is the natural state of society, which of course it is not, and I would say totalitarianism is the natural tendency without a struggle against it, so here we find ourselves decades later with less freedom (albeit more than Russia perhaps) than before and on our way toward a greater totalitarian state.

I applaud and commend your attitude regarding your situation and the current benefits of the USA, and sour grapes indeed if the course of civilization is immutable; I don't think the decline of our civilization has to be inevitable, but the less we resist (and complain proactively) the more rapid will be the decline. I want our children and grandchildren and beyond to have the same opportunities that we have and to the extent activist political policy, corrupt or beneficient, can affect the future state of the USA I think we need to call it like we see it.

We're very much in agreement, and I share your frustration and sadness at the state of things and at the trend. And although I am perhaps more resigned to the inevitability of the decline that you are, I agree that it is wrong to be passive in the face of it.

[lakedaemonian]

Re: Hudson: Go West, Young Man!

I think that is basically the idea. However my cui bono(who benefits) examination is easy to follow on the new regime in Ukraine. How did Russia benefit? I suppose it might be getting Crimea back but it seemed to me they already had it. And once again the real nationalists who don't want to go to the EU or Russia lacks representation and benefit the least.

So how about those autopsies then? If all of them were killed by sniper fire, then no one was dying in close quarters which means it was not largely from protester/riot police clashes. However I suspect those who want Obama to look bad( and I hate Obama) or those that have some other agenda are intrested in the politics of it. I don' think they care what happened. I think they care how this dispute helps their politics.

The Russian Naval Base at Sevastapol had 10-12k military personnel there already under treaty agreement. It's looking like this military intervention pretty much involuntarily doubled that number roughly.

Personally, I think the level of acceptability for violence in protests is a fair bit higher than what we would accept.

I think looking at things through a Ukrainian or developing world lens will result in a higher level of acceptability of violence during such crisis.

I'm left reminded of the Iranian election protests in 2009, the violent regime response, and the social media virality of Neda Agha Soltan:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Neda_Agha-Soltan

I'd hazard a guess that hundreds of millions of people around the world heard at least a portion of this story, but no real change came from it other than the Iranian regime upping their cyber/social media game.

[Thailandnotes]

Re: Hudson: Go West, Young Man!

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?...&jumival=11551

Paul Jay international news coverage (18 minutes)

[Polish_Silver]

Re: Hudson: Go West, Young Man!

EJ, what kind of conclusions can we draw from this, considering during the Soviet period many staple items were "free" at the point of service, including housing, medical care, transportation, education, child care, food etc?

The standard of living was VERY LOW in the entire Warsaw Pact. The governments covered up public health problems such as lack or proper sewers, outbreaks of infectious diseases, etc. For many people, the diet was deficient in protein or other nutrients because of chronic scarcity of nearly everything. My wife said the store did always have tea.

[flintlock]

Re: PC Roberts on the Ukrainian Question

"It's got electrolytes"

[flintlock]

Re: Hudson: Go West, Young Man!

EJ, what kind of conclusions can we draw from this, considering during the Soviet period many staple items were "free" at the point of service, including housing, medical care, transportation, education, child care, food etc?

I was going to say the same thing. Hard to compare.

[Woodsman]

Re: Hudson: Go West, Young Man!

The standard of living was VERY LOW in the entire Warsaw Pact. The governments covered up public health problems such as lack or proper sewers, outbreaks of infectious diseases, etc. For many people, the diet was deficient in protein or other nutrients because of chronic scarcity of nearly everything. My wife said the store did always have tea.

Deficient to say the least. This is an old piece about an even older documentary.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurti...gnation_and_th

It's a long and meandering piece, but it paints a vivid picture of the emptiness and absurdity of late Soviet life. For a shortcut, look to the video for the song "Everything is going according to plan" by Russian punk band - Grazhdanskaya Oborona or GrOb.

Everything is Going According to Plan

The key to our borders has been broken in two
And Our Father Lenin has withered away--
He's decayed into mold and wild honey.
And the Perestroika is still going and going according to plan.
And the mud has turned into bare ice.

And everything is going according to plan.
And everything is going according to plan.

Well, my destiny wants some rest.
I've promised it not to join the game of war.
But on my army cap, there is a hammer and a sickle and a star
How touching-a hammer, a sickle and a star.
The wild lantern of anticipation is flailing

But everything is going according to plan.
Everything is going according to plan.

Well, they fed my wife to the crowds.
With the fist of the world they pounded in her chest.
With worldwide liberty they tore her flesh.
So bury her in Christ!

But everything is going according to plan.
Everything is going according to plan.

Only our grandfather Lenin was a good leader.
All the other ones are such shit.
All the others are enemies and such [effing] [arses].
Over the homeland, the land of our fathers, an insane snow was falling.
I bought a "Korea" magazine--they have it good too.
They have Comrade Kim Il-sung, they have the same as we do.
I am sure that they have the same thing and everything is going according to plan.

And everything is going according to plan.
Everything is going according to plan.

Well, when we get communism it'll all be [effing] great.
It will come soon, we just have to wait.
Everything will be free there, everything will be an upper.
We'll probably not even have to die.
I woke up in the middle of the night and realized

That everything is going according to plan.
Everything is going according to plan.

[Chris Coles]

Re: Hudson: Go West, Young Man!

Here in the UK we enjoy Channel 4 TV News, (and I use that word enjoy deliberately as their reporting is much less devoted to sound bites and always brings what does to my mind seem to be a real professionalism to reporting. The link is here http://www.channel4.com/news/catch-up/

Take the centre item: Investigating Russian Troops in Crimea by Lindsay Hilsum: http://www.channel4.com/news/catch-u...ON_CRIMEA3x_05

Ever since Channel 4 TV News started, they have stood out as constantly maintaining a very high degree of professionalism and their reporting of the likes of Ukraine is a very good example.

One last point. During the 1920 -30's purges, Stalin forceably removed the entire Crimean Tartar population and replaced them with Russians. It is only since 1991 that some of them have been repatriated. Crimea is not and never has been "Russian". PERIOD.

[Chris Coles]

Re: Hudson: Go West, Young Man!

hear HERE!!!

+1

Absolutely agree.

[don]

Re: Hudson: Go West, Young Man!

Here's the US's exceptionalist promotion of "democracy" in action; Washington has recognized a coup d'etat in Ukraine that regime-changed a - for all its glaring faults - democratically elected government.

And here is Russian President Vladimir Putin, already last year, talking about how Russia and China decided to trade in roubles and yuan, and stressing how Russia needs to quit the "excessive monopoly" of the US dollar. He had to be aware the Empire would strike back.

Now there's more; Russian presidential adviser Sergey Glazyev


told RIA Novosti, "Russia will abandon the US dollar as a reserve currency if the United States initiates sanctions against the Russian Federation."

So the Empire struck back by giving "a little help" to regime change in the Ukraine. And Moscow counter-punched by taking control of Crimea in less than a day without firing a shot - with or without crack Spetsnaz brigades (UK-based think tanks say they are; Putin says they are not).

Putin's assessment of what happened in Ukraine is factually correct; "an anti-constitutional takeover and armed seizure of power". It's open to endless, mostly nasty debate whether the Kremlin overreacted or not. Considering the record of outright demonization of both Russia and Putin going on for years - and now reaching fever pitch - the Kremlin's swift reaction was quite measured.

Putin applied Sun Tzu to the letter, and now plays the US against the EU. He has made it clear Moscow does not need to "invade" Ukraine. The 1997 Ukraine-Russia partition treaty specifically allows Russian troops in Crimea. And Russia after all is an active proponent of state sovereignty; it's under this principle that Moscow refuses a Western "intervention" in Syria.

What he left the door open for is - oh cosmic irony of ironies - an American invention/intervention (and that, predictably, was undetectable by Western corporate media); the UN's R2P - "responsibility to protect" - in case the Western-aligned fascists and neo-nazis in Ukraine threaten Russians or Russian-speaking civilians with armed conflict. Samantha Power should be proud of herself.

Don't mess with Russian intelligence

The "West" once again has learned you don't mess with Russian intelligence, which in a nutshell preempted in Crimea a replica of the coup in Kiev, largely precipitated by UNA-UNSO - a shady, ultra-rightwing, crack paramilitary NATO-linked force using Ukraine as base, as exposed by William Engdahl.

And Crimea was an even murkier operation, because those neo-nazis from Western Ukraine were in tandem with Tatar jihadis (the House of Saud will be heavily tempted to finance them from now on).

The Kremlin is factually correct when pointing out that the coup was essentially conducted by fascists and ultra-right "nationalists" - Western code for neo-nazis. Svoboda ("Freedom") party political council member Yury Noyevy even admitted openly that using EU integration as a pretext "is a means to break our ties with Russia."

Western corporate media always conveniently forgets that Svoboda - as well as the Right Sector fascists - follow in the steps of Galician fascist/terrorist Stepan Bandera, a notorious asset of a basket of "Western" intel agencies. Now Svoboda has managed to insert no less than six bigwigs as part of the new regime in Kiev.

Then there are the new regional governors appointed to the mostly Russophone east and south of Ukraine. They are - who else - oligarchs, such as billionaires Sergei Taruta posted to Donetsk and Ihor Kolomoysky posted in Dnipropetrovsk. People in Maidan in Kiev were protesting mostly against - who else - kleptocrat oligarchs. Once again, Western corporate media - which tirelessly plugged a "popular" uprising against kleptocracy - hasn't noticed it.

Once again, follow the money

Ukraine's foreign currency reserves, only in the past four weeks, plunged from US$17.8 billion to $15 billion. Wanna buy some hryvnia? Well, not really; the national currency, is on a cosmic dive against the US dollar. This is jolly good news only for disaster capitalism vultures.

And right on cue, the International Monetary Fund is sending a "fact-finding mission" to Ukraine this week. Ukrainians of all persuasions may run but they won't hide from "structural adjustment". They could always try to scrape enough for a ticket with their worthless hryvnia (being eligible for visa on arrival in Thailand certainly helps).

European banks - who according to the Bank for International Settlements (BIS) hold more than $23 billion in outstanding loans - could lose big in Ukraine. Italian banks, for instance, have loaned nearly $6 billion.

On the Pipelineistan front, Ukraine heavily depends on Russia; 58% of its gas supply. It cannot exactly diversify and start buying from Qatar tomorrow - with delivery via what, Qatar Airways?

And even as 66% of Russian gas exported to the EU transits through Ukraine, the country is fast losing its importance as a transit hub. Both the Nord Stream and South Stream pipelines - Russia not on-the-ground but under-seas - bypass Ukraine. The Nord Stream, finished in 2011, links Russia with Germany beneath the Baltic Sea. South Stream, beneath the Black Sea, will be ready before the end of 2015.

Geoeconomically, the Empire needs Ukraine to be out of the Eurasian economic union promoted by the Kremlin - which also includes Kazakhstan and Belarus. And geopolitically, when NATO Secretary General, the vain puppet Anders Fogh Rasmussen, said that an IMF-EU package for the Ukraine would be "a major boost for Euro-Atlantic security", this is what clinched it; the only thing that matters in this whole game is NATO "annexing" Ukraine, as I examined earlier.

It has always been about the Empire of Bases - just like the encirclement of Iran; just like the "pivot" to Asia translating into encirclement of China; just like encircling Russia with bases and "missile defense". Over the Kremlin's collective dead body, of course.

Let's plunder that wasteland

US Secretary of State John Kerry accusing Russia of "invading Ukraine", in "violation of international law", and "back to the 19th century", is so spectacularly pathetic in its hypocrisy - once again, look at the US's record - it does not warrant comment from any informed observer. Incidentally, this is as pathetic as his offer of a paltry $1 billion in "loan guarantees" - which would barely pay Ukraine's bills for two weeks.

The Obama administration - especially the neo-cons of the "F**k the EU" kind - has lost is power play. And for Moscow, it has no interlocutor in Kiev because it considers the regime-changers illegal. Moscow also regards "Europe" as a bunch of pampered whining losers - with no common foreign policy to boot.

So any mediation now hinges on Germany. Berlin has no time for "sanctions" - the sacrosanct American exceptionalist mantra; Russia is a plush market for German industry. And for all the vociferations at the Economist and the Financial Times, the City of London also does not want sanctions; the financial center feeds on lavish Russian politico/oligarch funds. As for the West's "punishment" for Russia by threatening to expel it from the Group of Eight, that is a joke. The G-8, which excludes China, does not decide anything relevant anymore; the G-20 does.

If a wide-ranging poll were to be conducted today, it would reveal that the majority of Ukrainians don't want to be part of the EU - as much as the majority of Europeans don't want the Ukraine in the EU. What's left for millions of Ukrainians is the bloodsucking IMF, to be duly welcomed by "Yats" (as Prime Minister Yatsenyuk is treated by Vic "F**k the EU" Nuland).

Ukraine is slouching towards federalization. The Kiev regime-changers will have no say on autonomous Crimea - which most certainly will remain part of Ukraine (and Russia by the way will save $90 million in annual rent for the Sevastopol base, which until now was payable to Kiev.)

The endgame is all but written; Moscow controls an autonomous Crimea for free, and the US/EU "control", or try to plunder, disaster capitalism-style, a back of beyond western Ukraine wasteland "managed" by a bunch of Western puppets and oligarchs, with a smatter of neo-nazis.

So what is the Obama/Kerry strategic master duo to do? Start a nuclear war?

Pepe Escobar



side note:

phone conversation leaked between EU foreign affairs chief Catherine Ashton and Estonian foreign minister Urmas Paet

Paet: "All the evidence shows that people who were killed by snipers from both sides, policemen and people from the streets, that they were the same snipers killing people from both sides. ... Some photos that showed it is the same handwriting, the same type of bullets, and it is really disturbing that now the new coalition they don't want to investigate what exactly happened. So there is now stronger and stronger understanding that behind the snipers, it was not Yanukovych, but it was somebody from the new coalition."
Ashton: "I think we do want to investigate. I mean, I didn’t pick that up, that’s interesting. Gosh."
Paet: "It already discreditates (sic) this new coalition."


No. 84-E Foreign Minister Urmas Paet and EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton uploaded to the Internet today, a phone call is authentic.

Paet and Ashton conversation took place on 26 February, following Estonia's Foreign Minister's visit to Ukraine, and immediately after the end of the street violence.

[Woodsman]

Re: Hudson: Go West, Young Man!

Crimea is not and never has been "Russian". PERIOD.

Respectfully, it has been a part of Russia since 1783 following the defeat of the Crimean Khanate. Crimea is at least as "Russian" as Hawaii is "American," inasmuch as the United States annexed Hawaii in 1894 following the overthrow of its monarch.

[jpatter666]

Re: Hudson: Go West, Young Man!

Respectfully, it has been a part of Russia since 1783 following the defeat of the Crimean Khanate. Crimea is at least as "Russian" as Hawaii is "American," inasmuch as the United States annexed Hawaii in 1894 following the overthrow of its monarch.

Or maybe more relevant to Chris, no more than Scotland is British.

[Woodsman]

Re: Hudson: Go West, Young Man!

Or maybe more relevant to Chris, no more than Scotland is British.

Or Bermuda, Gibraltar and the Falklands, for that matter.

[don]

Re: Hudson: Go West, Young Man!

Or Bermuda, Gibraltar and the Falklands, for that matter.

Is England included in the Carter Doctrine?

[Chris Coles]

Re: Hudson: Go West, Young Man!

Is England included in the Carter Doctrine?

Thank you Don, gets me out of a nasty hyperbolic corner