PC Roberts on the Ukrainian Question

[Woodsman]

Re: Hudson: Go West, Young Man!

With all of its natural resources Russia could at least provide the standard of living to Russian citizens as Norway delivers. But Russia cannot. It is defective, stubbornly tragic. Like a neurotic that wears the symptoms of its past abuse as a badge of honor, Russia is unable to move on. It is mired in a goop of rancid nostalgia. Putin will not lead it out bit further in.

Real socialism was a piker for most.

"Do you know the boundary between real socialism and communism? -- The border passes along the Kremlin's wall"

And if I understood your point properly, real capitalism doesn't seem to be helping most either. These poor folks, smart as they are, are fed a ceaseless stream of bullsh!t by their leaders. Makes me want to play Lee Greenwood.

You can beat down a people only so much before it gets Hobbesian, to GRG's point.

[vt]

Re: Hudson: Go West, Young Man!

The problem with any political system these days is that the leadership is captured by the oligarchs in the East and crony socialists and capitalists in the West. The elites everywhere control politicians during the apex Russia's glory was nothing but a small group of a mafia like politburo forcing five year plans down the serfs throats.

This is why one has to pity the radical left and right who think they are the saviors of the "people". They are nothing but pawns to be used by the elite left or right.

Only a majority party of independents with a vibrant free media, and all other of our freedoms, will be able to improve the living standards for a true and growing middle class.

[vinoveri]

Re: Hudson: Go West, Young Man!

Most memorably: "The USA is the Soviet worker's utopia. You can work hard and retain the fruits of your labor, but if you stumble the state is there with welfare to support you. The USSR got the second half right... and not so well at that. The food was awful. A utopia for the lazy. God help you if you were ambitious."

This indeed would be a great strength of the USA if it were in fact true. Perhaps this should be a broad criterion of economic/fiscal policy.

Instead we have the privileged unelected "money lenders" who control the issuance of money, choose who is first in line to receive it, and to some extent where it will go. Whereas hard work and a lot of luck can still yield financial success, much of this is sucked off and diminished by the "tolls" of debt and state sponsored and supported cartels, Housing, higher education, health care, etc.

The secret of financial success in the USA is no different than Russia now:
- learn how the system really works - including who has the power and crony relationships - and set your sights on getting into those circles
- get as close to this power as you can
- lie, cheat and steal your way to the top (of course with enough plausible deniability) - and don't cross the power brokers
- don't look back or ever listen wholeheartedly to your conscience

It's crystal clear: the corruption of and by those who control the value, quantity and distribution of money, under the guise of objective expertise, trustworthiness and fairness has unleashed animal spirits alright, and the "ambitious" (read:greedy) have naturally risen to the top of the pyramid - and everyone else successful or not who plays the game of shoveling money around in mis-allocated dreams of delusion is both a pawn and drone.

[Woodsman]

Re: Hudson: Go West, Young Man!

This is indeed would be a great strength of the USA if it were in fact true...

Did I mention Lee Greenwood? I have Ray Charles singing "America the Beautiful," too.

[don]

Re: Hudson: Go West, Young Man!

Might Russian stubbornness prove to be an asset as the USA encircles their homeland?

[Woodsman]

Re: Hudson: Go West, Young Man!

Might Russian stubbornness prove to be an asset as the USA encircles their homeland?

You mean we're not done yet?




"Of those in Europe, most of the military personnel are located at installations activated during the Cold War, by which the US government sought to challenge the Soviet Union in the aftermath of World War II."

United States military deployments

[lakedaemonian]

Re: Hudson: Go West, Young Man!

You mean we're not done yet?




"Of those in Europe, most of the military personnel are located at installations activated during the Cold War, by which the US government sought to challenge the Soviet Union in the aftermath of World War II."

United States military deployments

Your forgot to add the Asia/Pacific Edition:

Renewed relationship with Philippines
Thawing relations with India, Vietnam, Cambodia, and Myanmar/Burma

[gwynedd1]

Re: Hudson: Go West, Young Man!

Under oligarchic capitalism by 2013 the Russian economy produced 30% more unequal distribution of half as much poverty.

The problem is that most of that can be attributed to more trade with the West. The greater Russian diaspora that moves out of Russia also creates a market for Russian made goods and I see many little shops that carry canned fish from Vladivostok , mayo, chocolate etc. Certainly more tourism as well. So I'd have to say that oligarchy and communism are like to perform similarly. Its simply that the market is bigger.

[lakedaemonian]

Re: Hudson: Go West, Young Man!

The problem is that most of that can be attributed to more trade with the West. The greater Russian diaspora that moves out of Russia also creates a market for Russian made goods and I see many little shops that carry canned fish from Vladivostok , mayo, chocolate etc. Certainly more tourism as well. So I'd have to say that oligarchy and communism are like to perform similarly. Its simply that the market is bigger.

It's a shame about Russia.

Reading Thomas Stanley's series of books including "Millionaire Mind" and "Millionaire Next Door" back in the 90's I recall when he was crunching his numbers that 1st generation Russians emigrating to the US were a real outlier in terms of high likelihood of financial success.

If only the country could unlock it's massive potential.

One thing I always try to appreciate having lived in North America and now Australasia compared to other parts of the world is the often under appreciated gift of easily defensible geography.

While many are understandably frustrated with security along the US Southern Border, I think it pales in comparison to the issues faced by countries like Russia.

I'm not sympathising with the current Russian government(and it's policies that can also lead to insecurity), just the benefit and/or curse of respective geographic position.

We are certainly quite fortunate and it should never be taken for granted.

[leegs]

Re: Hudson: Go West, Young Man!

This indeed would be a great strength of the USA if it were in fact true. Perhaps this should be a broad criterion of economic/fiscal policy.

Instead we have the privileged unelected "money lenders" who control the issuance of money, choose who is first in line to receive it, and to some extent where it will go. Whereas hard work and a lot of luck can still yield financial success, much of this is sucked off and diminished by the "tolls" of debt and state sponsored and supported cartels, Housing, higher education, health care, etc.

The secret of financial success in the USA is no different than Russia now:
- learn how the system really works - including who has the power and crony relationships - and set your sights on getting into those circles
- get as close to this power as you can
- lie, cheat and steal your way to the top (of course with enough plausible deniability) - and don't cross the power brokers
- don't look back or ever listen wholeheartedly to your conscience

It's crystal clear: the corruption of and by those who control the value, quantity and distribution of money, under the guise of objective expertise, trustworthiness and fairness has unleashed animal spirits alright, and the "ambitious" (read:greedy) have naturally risen to the top of the pyramid - and everyone else successful or not who plays the game of shoveling money around in mis-allocated dreams of delusion is both a pawn and drone.

Apparently you define financial success differently that I do. In any case the quote talked about 'keeping the fruits of your labor', not about becoming 'filthy rich' as is apparently your definition of financial success.

I'm generally the last one to wax poetic and patriotic about the USA, but in fact I think the quote from the Russian is right on. I have a small business, creating and managing it was not terribly difficult, I didn't have to suffer significant bureaucratic delays and impediments, I never have to bribe anybody, and frankly I don't feel that my taxes are onerous. My life is satisfying and luxurious beyond what the great majority of humanity is able to experience. I don't have financial security, I have to work, my retirement prospects are pretty sketchy, but this strikes me as the natural order of things. Seems silly to have sour grapes over the fact that I am living at the beginning of the decline of a golden age, as compared to e.g. my parents who grew up and lived during it's ascendancy.

I don't dispute many of your assertions, but I think they are misapplied in the context of the quote as I read it.

[gwynedd1]

Re: Hudson: Go West, Young Man!

http://www.channel4.com/news/ukraine-catherine-ashton-phone-shoot-maidan-bugged-leaked

In a leaked phone call, believed to be between EU foreign policy chief Cathy Ashton and Estonia's foreign minister, it is claimed Ukraine protesters were shot on the orders of their own leaders.

So who is looking into who actually killed who? Isn't that sort of important at this point? Cause if this phone call is true, then I'd have to say we have ourselves a fire at the Reich-stag.

[Woodsman]

Re: Hudson: Go West, Young Man!

http://www.channel4.com/news/ukraine-catherine-ashton-phone-shoot-maidan-bugged-leaked

In a leaked phone call, believed to be between EU foreign policy chief Cathy Ashton and Estonia's foreign minister, it is claimed Ukraine protesters were shot on the orders of their own leaders.

So who is looking into who actually killed who? Isn't that sort of important at this point? Cause if this phone call is true, then I'd have to say we have ourselves a fire at the Reich-stag.

At least that's what the FSB/SVR and Foreign Ministry hopes we'll believe. I saw this and while discouraging, it's little more than heresay culled by Russian cloak and dagger snoops. Trust no one

[vinoveri]

Re: Hudson: Go West, Young Man!

Apparently you define financial success differently that I do. In any case the quote talked about 'keeping the fruits of your labor', not about becoming 'filthy rich' as is apparently your definition of financial success.

I'm generally the last one to wax poetic and patriotic about the USA, but in fact I think the quote from the Russian is right on. I have a small business, creating and managing it was not terribly difficult, I didn't have to suffer significant bureaucratic delays and impediments, I never have to bribe anybody, and frankly I don't feel that my taxes are onerous. My life is satisfying and luxurious beyond what the great majority of humanity is able to experience. I don't have financial security, I have to work, my retirement prospects are pretty sketchy, but this strikes me as the natural order of things. Seems silly to have sour grapes over the fact that I am living at the beginning of the decline of a golden age, as compared to e.g. my parents who grew up and lived during it's ascendancy.

I don't dispute many of your assertions, but I think they are misapplied in the context of the quote as I read it.

I agree of course that currently in the USA one can keep much more of the "fruit of their labor" than one could in the former USSR (and perhaps even in current Russia although I don't know). My impetuous and negative diatribe may be somewhat exaggerated and reflects a frustration at the decline of our civilization and "beacon on hill" view of the USA - but mostly the injustices perpetrated by the corrupted system, lack of transparency, abrogation of rule of law, etc, which appear to be getting worse. I recall 25+ yrs ago when I complained to my fellow classmates about the incipient drug war or other examples of big government infringing cherished liberties either through criminalization or regulatory/administrative law, the response I typically received was: "Stop whining, we're still a lot more free than the Soviet Union", incredible, as if freedom is the natural state of society, which of course it is not, and I would say totalitarianism is the natural tendency without a struggle against it, so here we find ourselves decades later with less freedom (albeit more than Russia perhaps) than before and on our way toward a greater totalitarian state.

I applaud and commend your attitude regarding your situation and the current benefits of the USA, and sour grapes indeed if the course of civilization is immutable; I don't think the decline of our civilization has to be inevitable, but the less we resist (and complain proactively) the more rapid will be the decline. I want our children and grandchildren and beyond to have the same opportunities that we have and to the extent activist political policy, corrupt or beneficient, can affect the future state of the USA I think we need to call it like we see it.

[gwynedd1]

Re: Hudson: Go West, Young Man!

At least that's what the FSB/SVR and Foreign Ministry hopes we'll believe. I saw this and while discouraging, it's little more than heresay culled by Russian cloak and dagger snoops. Trust no one

I think that is basically the idea. However my cui bono(who benefits) examination is easy to follow on the new regime in Ukraine. How did Russia benefit? I suppose it might be getting Crimea back but it seemed to me they already had it. And once again the real nationalists who don't want to go to the EU or Russia lacks representation and benefit the least.

So how about those autopsies then? If all of them were killed by sniper fire, then no one was dying in close quarters which means it was not largely from protester/riot police clashes. However I suspect those who want Obama to look bad( and I hate Obama) or those that have some other agenda are intrested in the politics of it. I don' think they care what happened. I think they care how this dispute helps their politics.

[lektrode]

Re: Hudson: Go West, Young Man!

.....applaud and commend your attitude regarding your situation and the current benefits of the USA, and sour grapes indeed if the course of civilization is immutable; I don't think the decline of our civilization has to be inevitable, but the less we resist (and complain proactively) the more rapid will be the decline. I want our children and grandchildren and beyond to have the same opportunities that we have and to the extent activist political policy, corrupt or beneficient, can affect the future state of the USA I think we need to call it like we see it.

hear HERE!!!

+1