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  • A New Global Property Bubble?

    We've gone over this before, but Dr. Doom always gets the chattering classes going. And now Bob Schiller's calling it in Norway.

    95% of Norwegian mortgage holders have adjustable rates. 60% of Swedes do. Swiss law is even crazier some ways. And Canada's looking ready to pop - avg Vancouver house nearing $1mm. Have the countries that did well through the recession just continued to mask problems with debt?

    Snip:

    Nouriel Roubini was one of the most presciently pessimistic analysts of the global economy in the run-up to the global financial crisis. And now he thinks it's happening again.Roubini doesn't see bubbles in the places where they were most severe in the pre-2008 period. He doesn't mention the United States or Spain or Ireland. Rather, Roubini sees housing prices getting out of whack in quite a few small and mid-sized nations that are well-governed and managed to avoid the worst economic effects of the financial crisis: Switzerland, Sweden, Norway, Finland, France, Germany, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the London metropolitan area in the U.K. He adds some key emerging markets that show the same dynamic: Hong Kong, Singapore, China and Israel, and major urban centers in Turkey, Indonesia, India and Brazil.
    In this view of the world, a better question might be where in the world is there NOT a housing bubble (the answers, apparently, are the United States, southern Europe, Russia and all of Africa).
    Roubini's argument boils down to this: The major economies have been growing only slowly. Yet with low interest rates and aggressive central bank action across the globe, there is a giant pool of money that has to go somewhere. That somewhere has not been productive new investments, like companies building new factories. Rather, it has come in the form of people taking advantage of cheap credit to bid up the price of existing real estate in cities from Stockholm to Sydney.


    Snip:

    Norway’s housing market, which Nobel Laureate Robert J. Shiller described in 2012 as being in a bubble, is now deflating faster than even the central bank had predicted after regulators introduced a slate of measures to cool demand. After home prices doubled over the past decade, fueled by low interest rates and surging oil wealth, they’ve slid for two consecutive months raising concern that real estate could be in for a hard landing amid record household debt.

  • #2
    Re: A New Global Property Bubble?

    http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/in-se...perty-bubbles/

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: A New Global Property Bubble?

      interesting that his first ref is this:

      In search of requisite variety: central banks and property bubbles

      Posted on by Alex Harrowell
      After last week’s festival of secular stagnation (StagFest?), this week’s trend kicks off from Paul Krugman’s post wondering why the Swedish central bank is raising rates. Simon Wren-Lewis gets into it more. The Riksbank is worried about property prices, and the banks that love them. They’re afraid that a property bubble might break out, and hope that cranking up interest rates for everybody will stop it.
      seems even the euro's are wondren what makes our nobel boy-wonder tick...

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: A New Global Property Bubble?

        Originally posted by lektrode View Post
        interesting that his first ref is this:



        seems even the euro's are wondren what makes our nobel boy-wonder tick...
        The beginning innings of the threat of US interest rates (really the worlds interest) rising.

        I crack up everytime I listen to JP Morgan or some other money manager or investment bank who say you dont want to be in USTs and some even see the 10 year at 4.5% by Q2 2014 when interest rates rise.

        Then in the same breath they say to buy high grade credit and high yield.

        Apparently they have forgotten that the pricing of said securities is off of the UST so if the UST rate is rising and prices are falling that the same wont happen to all assets that USTs underpin.

        Which is virtually everything..... when you really think about it......

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: A New Global Property Bubble?

          Originally posted by dcarrigg View Post
          95% of Norwegian mortgage holders have adjustable rates. 60% of Swedes do. Swiss law is even crazier some ways. And Canada's looking ready to pop - avg Vancouver house nearing $1mm. Have the countries that did wel[COLOR=#37404E][FONT=lucida grande]l through the recession just continued to mask problems with debt?
          I'm not sure if the call for a bubble in Canada can be made so easily. Lending standards for Canadians have been getting tighter ever since 2008. I thought Mark Carney's parting gift of 10% down, 25 year Max amortization, and CMHC approval evaluated at 5% interest, would have killed our housing market but it kept on going.

          The problem is that a lot of what is driving Canada's property bubble isn't Canada. When it comes to the G8 we are the cheapest country around. So when people are looking to bail out of their own high priced countries (particularly for retirement) Canada makes the short list of destinations.

          Vancouver is a bit of a different animal, but again, it's the newly rich Chinese looking to get their money out of China. Lots of stories about cash only Chinese buyers and whole neighborhoods becoming little china's. So I would only say Vancouver/Victoria is a bubble if this money is going to want to one day leave canada.

          However.

          Vancouver


          Shanghai


          Where would you like to spend your new found $1Musd
          Last edited by Fox; December 06, 2013, 12:02 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: A New Global Property Bubble?

            Originally posted by Fox View Post
            I'm not sure if the call for a bubble in Canada can be made so easily. Lending standards for Canadians have been getting tighter ever since 2008. I thought Mark Carney's parting gift of 10% down, 25 year Max amortization, and CMHC approval evaluated at 5% interest, would have killed our housing market but it kept on going.

            The problem is that a lot of what is driving Canada's property bubble isn't Canada. When it comes to the G8 we are the cheapest country around. So when people are looking to bail out of their own high priced countries (particularly for retirement) Canada makes the short list of destinations.

            Vancouver is a bit of a different animal, but again, it's the newly rich Chinese looking to get their money out of China. Lots of stories about cash only Chinese buyers and whole neighborhoods becoming little china's. So I would only say Vancouver/Victoria is a bubble if this money is going to want to one day leave canada.

            However.

            Vancouver



            Where would you like to spend your new found $1Musd
            Vancouver the way I remember it from growing up there.



            And no, contrary to popular rumour "All Cash Chinese Buyers" are NOT buying up every damn house, duplex and apartment in the Lower Mainland. THIS insanity of a property bubble is being driven by the locals and lots, and lots of cheap, cheap credit from the Canadian banks.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: A New Global Property Bubble?

              Originally posted by GRG55 View Post
              Vancouver the way I remember it from growing up there.

              I still would prefer cold, wet weather to not being able to breathe.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: A New Global Property Bubble?

                Originally posted by Forrest View Post
                I still would prefer cold, wet weather to not being able to breathe.
                The world is a big place. They don't have to come to Vancouver to escape the smog...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: A New Global Property Bubble?

                  Originally posted by GRG55 View Post
                  The world is a big place. They don't have to come to Vancouver to escape the smog...
                  yeah, guess they could always go to LA, at least it doesnt snow in the winter...

                  figured this to be the purrfect spot to pop this one in:

                  Why Canada and the U.S. Should Merge, Eh?

                  It's past time for the two countries to eliminate their border

                  By Diane Francis


                  Dec. 6, 2013 5:51 p.m. ET
                  When Americans think about Canada—and that doesn't happen often—they usually think of us as the nice, predictable guy next door who never plays his stereo too loud. Even Rob Ford, Toronto's ranting, crack-smoking mayor, has barely dented our squeaky-clean image.
                  But Americans shouldn't just think more about Canada. They should consider building on the two countries' free-trade deal and forming a more perfect North American union. It is past time for the U.S. and Canada to eliminate their border—either by creating a customs and monetary union or, more radically, by merging outright into a single nation-state or a European Union-style partnership.
                  Such a merger makes perfect sense. No two countries on Earth are as socially and economically integrated as the U.S. and Canada. They share geography, values and a gigantic border. Their populations study, travel and do business together and intermarry in great numbers. If they were corporations (or European states), they would have merged a long time ago. And each has what the other needs: The U.S. has capital, manpower, technology and the world's strongest military; Canada has vast reserves of undeveloped resources.


                  Of course, even the most mild-mannered Canadian may sputter at the prospect of being swallowed up by the U.S., and Americans may wonder about the wisdom of absorbing their huge neighbor. But it needn't be so radical. Nobody is proposing that Canada become the 51st state.
                  Like modern businesses, modern nations must constantly recalibrate their economic and political models. The smartest people in a room prevail until a smarter group comes along. And unless winners adapt, they eventually lose out, in economic and political life as in nature. Today's U.S. or Canada could become tomorrow's Portugal or Greece. In the competitive and interconnected world of the 21st century, countries that stand still will be left behind.
                  The two North American neighbors increasingly find themselves staring down the barrel of state capitalism, as practiced above all by China, whose state-owned enterprises and sovereign-wealth funds have made a concerted effort to capture markets and resources. In October, the International Monetary Fund's World Economic Outlook database forecast that by 2018, China's economy will be bigger than that of the U.S.—and Asian economies will be bigger than those of the U.S., Canada, Germany, Britain, Italy, France and Russia combined.
                  If Canada and the U.S. were to join forces, the tables might well be turned. The North American neighbors would become an even more formidable superpower, with an economy larger than the European Union's and a land mass bigger than South America's. The new union would top the world in energy, minerals, water, arable land and technology, and all of it would be protected by the U.S. military. Size matters.
                  Canadians have traditionally bristled at the thought of falling under the sway of the U.S., but without a deeper cross-border partnership, we face some grim existential challenges. With its small, aging population and relatively small economy, Canada lacks the resources to develop and defend its gigantic piece of real estate. Through a series of aggressive buyout attempts and transactions, China has targeted Canada's resources and empty landmass. In 2007, Russia used a small submarine to symbolically plant its flag on the ocean floor beneath the North Pole and underscore its claim to a large swath of the resource-rich Arctic, and Russian President Vladimir Putin has been pushing the U.N. to affirm his claims to the region.
                  The U.S. faces serious challenges of its own. It must create millions of jobs for its relatively young population, and even as its political system grows more sclerotic, it must compete for markets, resources and Arctic access with the aggressive practitioners of state capitalism.
                  Truth be told, the merger of the U.S. and Canada is already well under way. As many as one in 10 Canadians (more than 3 million people) live full- or part-time in the U.S., and an estimated
                  1 million Americans live in Canada. As of 2010, U.S. enterprises controlled about 10% of Canada's assets, 17% of its revenues and 13% of its corporate profits, according to Statistics Canada. Canadians bought more goods and services from Americans than did the 340 million people living in the European Union—a population 10 times as large.
                  A still deeper integration could drive major economic growth. Canada's hinterland is largely without infrastructure or development, even though it contains enormous untapped natural resources. Political disputes have also stranded some of the world's most promising hydroelectric and tidal power prospects in the Canadian provinces of Quebec, British Columbia, Manitoba, Newfoundland and Nova Scotia.
                  Despite the powerful logic of a U.S.-Canada merger, the obstacles remain daunting. Both countries are divided politically and heavily regionalized. To execute so audacious a move would require a level of statesmanship now lacking in both countries.
                  But remember, the Europeans pulled off something far more dramatic, uniting populations that shared no language and had slaughtered one another for centuries. Other recent examples of deeper integration include the Eastern Caribbean Economic and Monetary Union and the Economic Community of West African States. They all did it by opening their borders to trade and travel—while at the same time leaving governments intact.
                  Opinion surveys about an outright merger are scant, but as far back as 1964, a poll showed support from 49% of Canadians. In 2007, the World Values Survey Association, a research network of thousands of social scientists, found that about 77% of Americans and 41% of Canadians said they would opt for political union if it meant a better quality of life. In 2011, another poll by Harris/Decima showed that 65% of Canadians backed greater integration with the U.S. and supported a plan to eliminate the border by blending U.S. and Canadian customs, immigration, security and law enforcement efforts.
                  Those who oppose such a merger are on the wrong side of history. When the North American Free Trade Agreement passed in 1987, the U.S. and Canada (along with Mexico) began a mutually beneficial process of integration that now needs strengthening. Untended, the border has become clogged, damaging trade and tourism. And the wolves are at the door. Just this year China, Inc. picked off a large Canadian oil company and a large American food processor and exporter, without promising either country any reciprocal buyout privileges in China.
                  Serious discussion of a merger should be a top priority for both the U.S. and Canada. The continental neighbors need one another more now than ever before, and the status quo grows less viable by the day.
                  —Ms. Francis, a dual Canadian-American citizen, is the author of "Merger of the Century: Why Canada and America Should Become One Country," published by HarperCollins.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: A New Global Property Bubble?

                    Originally posted by lektrode View Post
                    yeah, guess they could always go to LA, at least it doesnt snow in the winter...

                    figured this to be the purrfect spot to pop this one in:

                    Why Canada and the U.S. Should Merge, Eh?

                    It's past time for the two countries to eliminate their border
                    I agree. It is long overdue.

                    For a very long time now we Canadians have considered the U.S. of eh to be the 11th Province...might as well formalize it, eh. Besides WE have a health care system that actually works...sort of, eh.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: A New Global Property Bubble?

                      Originally posted by GRG55 View Post
                      I agree. It is long overdue.

                      For a very long time now we Canadians have considered the U.S. of eh to be the 11th Province...might as well formalize it, eh. Besides WE have a health care system that actually works...sort of, eh.
                      better beer, too - eh.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: A New Global Property Bubble?

                        Originally posted by lektrode View Post
                        better beer, too - eh.
                        ... and high-quality free food from Mother Nature if you're willing to learn a few skills like fishing, hunting, canoeing, swimming, and snowshoeing. Heck, you should see just the wild blueberries and raspberries I have in my freezer, eh.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: A New Global Property Bubble?

                          Originally posted by Fiat Currency View Post
                          ... and high-quality free food from Mother Nature if you're willing to learn a few skills like fishing, hunting, canoeing, swimming, and snowshoeing.
                          roger that - picked up all them, along with the J-stroke and my fave form of transport (downhill) in me ole stompin ground

                          Heck, you should see just the wild blueberries and raspberries I have in my freezer, eh.
                          oh eye _that_ fiat - back in the ole 'hood, we had one of the best wild blue patches in the north country - at least til the bulldozers showed up and converted most of it to stuff that needs mowin !!?? = how to waste a 'free lunch'

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: A New Global Property Bubble?

                            Originally posted by Fiat Currency View Post
                            ... and high-quality free food from Mother Nature if you're willing to learn a few skills like fishing, hunting, canoeing, swimming, and snowshoeing. Heck, you should see just the wild blueberries and raspberries I have in my freezer, eh.
                            we have wild blackberries in ours and we grow the blueberries!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: A New Global Property Bubble?

                              Originally posted by lektrode View Post
                              roger that - picked up all them, along with the J-stroke and my fave form of transport (downhill) in me ole stompin ground
                              Unfortunately for me, I decided I was too old to take up downhill when I moved close to the Rockies. I figured I would have either pulled a Sonny Bono, or wrenched a knee or ankle already overstrained from years of youthful competitive basketball & volleyball - despite being well-coordinated for an old dude. However, on a sunny winter day, I still love to cross-country ski with my carbon-fibre snowshoes strapped to my back, eh. There are so many skills you could add to the list like gardening, kayaking, basic outdoor survival etc. Perhaps someday I'll market my fully-equipped survival vest, tactical belt, and satchel. Modern technology currently enables you to at least survive in the wilderness for a surprsingly extended period of time. If somebody from only 200 years ago were able to see what I can carry only on my person while trekking, they would've called me Merlin.

                              oh eye _that_ fiat - back in the ole 'hood, we had one of the best wild blue patches in the north country - at least til the bulldozers showed up and converted most of it to stuff that needs mowin !!?? = how to waste a 'free lunch'
                              "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow." - Men In Black

                              What else can I say?

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