The Fast & the...........

[Mega]

DEAD!
He been involved with a number of other RTA's (God knows how many "inspired" by his films)...You only get so much Luck :-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-25173318

mike

[Mega]

Re: The Fast & the...........

Oh it was a Porsche GT (Death-trap)

[flintlock]

Re: The Fast & the...........

There is a website that has pictures of sports car wrecks by make and model.

http://www.wreckedexotics.com/

Amazing how many people go out and drive these type cars on the road at crazy speeds. I dont know if this was the case in Walker's crash but these cars belong on the track when being wrung out, not on the streets. Was the car on a closed city loop or were they just out on the streets? Hard to believe a charity event would be running these type cars around the general public. I know some of these cars can really bite you. My neighbor has a Ferrari and I went out for a ride with him once. Once. He said the dealer told him to never ever turn off the stability control button. I could see why. So much power on tap things can get out of hand really quick.

[Mega]

Re: The Fast & the...........

Mid-engined cars = Nightmare, Lotus did a study in the 90's & found Front engine with gearbox over the rear wheels best. Porsche 944 type..........Nissan went one better With the GTR:-

GTR.jpg

As for Paul, its CO2 you need mate!

[GRG55]

Re: The Fast & the...........

Mid-engined cars = Nightmare, Lotus did a study in the 90's & found Front engine with gearbox over the rear wheels best. Porsche 944 type..........Nissan went one better With the GTR:-

[ATTACH=CONFIG]5166[/ATTACH]

If Jim Clark and Colin Chapman were still alive they would both disagree with you Mike.

The polar moment of inertia created by two masses at opposite ends of the car (engine and gearbox) is quite a bit more problematic than a mid-engine.

[flintlock]

Re: The Fast & the...........

I've owned 3 944s but I tend to agree with GRG. What makes for great handling in a street car is not always the same for a race car. I was not aware there was anything inherently dangerous with mid engine design, except at the limits, when they can spin suddenly and with less warning. Its the rear engined Porsches that had a reputation for swapping ends in a corner, but most of that nasty habit has been engineered out today. The 600 HP probably had a lot to do with that crash. Tracks are more forgiving. Less trees and poles.

[Woodsman]

Re: The Fast & the...........

If Jim Clark and Colin Chapman were still alive they would both disagree with you Mike.

The polar moment of inertia created by two masses at opposite ends of the car (engine and gearbox) is quite a bit more problematic than a mid-engine.

It marks me as a geezer, but the 67-68 Grand Prix seasons topped it for me and it's been downhill ever since. I stopped paying fanatical attention to GP around '75 but still keep an eye out. In my book, the Lotus 49 is still about the finest open wheeled racer ever produced, although I'd make room in the garage for a Lotus 72 and McClaren M23 Ford.

Every so often when the insomnia kicks in, I'll sneak a few practice laps at Monza on my virtual Lotus 49.

[GRG55]

Re: The Fast & the...........

I've owned 3 944s but I tend to agree with GRG. What makes for great handling in a street car is not always the same for a race car. I was not aware there was anything inherently dangerous with mid engine design, except at the limits, when they can spin suddenly and with less warning. Its the rear engined Porsches that had a reputation for swapping ends in a corner, but most of that nasty habit has been engineered out today. The 600 HP probably had a lot to do with that crash. Tracks are more forgiving. Less trees and poles.

The reason the engine in a road car is hung at the far front or back is because having it in the middle severely complicates the passenger packaging. In a seriously high performance street car (like some of those mid-engined Italian beasts) it's all about the driving experience and passengers are third class citizens (and passenger comfort obviously irrelevant).

The rear-engine Porche 911s used to have most of the engine weight behind the rear transaxle (the engine was originally mounted on the transaxle bell-housing). That is why they had such a well deserved reputation for swapping ends once the car was allowed to go into oversteer (high polar moment of inertia...think of it like a horizontal pendulum with all that weight at the far back continuing to turn the car about it's centre of mass once the rear end breaks away). Starting about 1973 Porche started to aggressively engineer its way out of the worst of that situation. They tried to move every accessory in the engine bay forward of the rear axle, and they tried to lighten up every component that they could not move. One simple example, they started making the air cleaner housing out of plastic instead of metal in order to shave a few ounces of weight from behind the axle. Now of course there's all sorts of "ladies aids" in these cars in the form of traction control and stability systems. Takes all the rastiness out of the vehicle personality in my opinion...driving a "perfect" car with no bad habits is actually quite boring. ;-)

[Mega]

Re: The Fast & the...........

I driven them all, Mid engined car are a nightmare on anything other than smooth flat surface. You need weight over the front axle, a new breed of small light 4wd cars are coming the next few years.....Mini X4 Works......Audi RS1 (not the prsent A1, next MBQ one).

As Paul, well police are saying they were street racing, looking at the crash site it looks like a plane crash!

[Mega]

Re: The Fast & the...........

Is it too early for the jokes yet?

[jr429]

Re: The Fast & the...........

Is it too early for the jokes yet?

He died at a charity event that him and a few other guys have been running for years. The guy was a good guy that liked fast cars and had a penchant for acting. If you really like fast cars you know as well as I do this could have easily been you. So please dispense with the BS two good car guys lost their lives. While I don't like AE's business practices and not a huge fan of the "fast & furious" franchise they were good people.

As for the GTR versus the rear-engined porsche (I own both gtr and 997 turbo) your understanding of the physics and what makes a good sports car is questionable. I normally have a lot of respect for your posts so you'll have to excuse my negative tone but the amount of disrespect being paid to someone that is a genuine good person and threw in his lot (and became successful) with an "alternative" scene that became mainstream is a bit to schadenfreude for me or however you spell it.

[jr429]

Re: The Fast & the...........

I've owned 3 944s but I tend to agree with GRG. What makes for great handling in a street car is not always the same for a race car. I was not aware there was anything inherently dangerous with mid engine design, except at the limits, when they can spin suddenly and with less warning. Its the rear engined Porsches that had a reputation for swapping ends in a corner, but most of that nasty habit has been engineered out today. The 600 HP probably had a lot to do with that crash. Tracks are more forgiving. Less trees and poles.

The "snap" oversteer that you speak of is simply based on vehicle design, primarily balance and how power and loading of each contact patch and not exclusive to a particular vehicle design although front engine cars naturally have a tendency to understeer rather than snap oversteer for obvious reasons. Some of the biggest culprits for snap oversteer at the track are poorly engineered 4wd cars. For example rapid torque onset of some of the older turbo porsches caused by non-linear turbocharger selection caused a lot of these problems. The solution to these problems is a complex engineering problem not based on engine location. There's a reason why rear engined cars are so damn fast and why the Corvette and the GTR puts the transmission in the rear - balance. Given the same restrictions a front engine car is not around the track as some have suggested.

[GRG55]

Re: The Fast & the...........

The "snap" oversteer that you speak of is simply based on vehicle design, primarily balance and how power and loading of each contact patch and not exclusive to a particular vehicle design although front engine cars naturally have a tendency to understeer rather than snap oversteer for obvious reasons. Some of the biggest culprits for snap oversteer at the track are poorly engineered 4wd cars. For example rapid torque onset of some of the older turbo porsches caused by non-linear turbocharger selection caused a lot of these problems. The solution to these problems is a complex engineering problem not based on engine location. There's a reason why rear engined cars are so damn fast and why the Corvette and the GTR puts the transmission in the rear - balance. Given the same restrictions a front engine car is not around the track as some have suggested.

There's quite a bit of difference between those factors that cause a particular chassis to oversteer or understeer, and how that same chassis responds once that condition starts.

Most any car...front-engine, rear-engine, it doesn't matter...can be set up to bias towards understeer or oversteer. Camber, tire size, wheel offset, the size and pre-torsion on the front and rear anti-sway bars, and host of other things can change the car's characteristics quite dramatically. Those are some of the variables I used to use to "tune" my gymkhana racer when I was a student gear.

So there's lots that can be done to keep that rear-engine Porche well behaved...but if you ever lose that back end you better be damn fast on the steering and throttle for quite unlike a front engine car, that mother is going to want to keep going around for reasons that every first year physics student studying Newtonian mechanics will understand.

[Mega]

Re: The Fast & the...........

My dear chap
Feel free to be as negative as you like...........i intend to!
Handling is subjective, British car Mags still to this day rave about the 205 GTI..........i drove one & found it the nasty-snap oversteering lump of crap ever......i bought a Renault 5 GT Turbo a VASTY better car & quite stable compared to the Pug.

The same car mags hated Fast Ford's of the era, strange as they had MEGA grip & totally trustwothy on the limt. I dislike the mondern supercar as they are too wide for British "B" raods & far too heavy.

As for Walker, i await the police report..........to confrim what we all already suspect.....at which point i WILL have plenty to say!

Mega

[flintlock]

Re: The Fast & the...........

From what I've read about the Carrera GT, they actually have pretty high limits but can get nasty once they get away from you. But that probably applies to all of these type cars. Ive read conflicting reports about it's electronic stability control. One article said Porsche engineers said it didn't need it. I find it hard to believe the lawyers would let that happen. Lots of wrecked ones on wreckedexotics.com, especially since they only made 1500. One was wrecked by a kid on prom night!