Inequality much worse than most think

[Woodsman]

Re: Inequality much worse than most think

Jr as I have said yes some people can save and accumulate some measure of wealth.

For the majority it is no more than a subsistence living of consumerism whether they know it or not.

The thing is I realize that the collapse is coming and I have little time "relatively" to get to a position to effect change and ride out the storm. My window of opportunity is closing and after the collapse it will be 100x harder to do something else or start a business.

As most would say I am extremely intelligent, hardworking etc yet I cannot get a job at a hedge fund OR raise money to manage capital through the storm because "whatever X reason" the people managing the funds or HR think about me. I dont have the right schooling, or connections or whatever.

While trying to get a position at a large consulting company for O&G where I had a guy I knew there who took my CV directly to the head of research only to be told "sorry we see him more as a sales person than research" Wouldnt even give me an interview.

Or in the final rounds of a large asset manager 6 month interview process the head of Alternative Investments Sales & Marketing telling me "I am too young to put in front of pension funds/endowments and that he didnt believe I could be an effective sales person" This after the HF manager went to bat for me and told the firm he wanted to hire me. Enough that I interviewed with the CIO of the investment bank and he told me "The HF manager never talks anyone up and he talked you up which is impressive" Not to mention I use to be in institutional fixed income sales for a mid-tier broker dealer where I was paid only on commission and started with no connections, just about the hardest job you can have on the street.

So one says, nah we see you as sales, the other sales no you cant sell the HF you would work for? Wtf is that. Its all BS but none of those questions would arise if I had gone to Harvard.

So after 6 months what do I get? Crickets.....

The translation to that verbage is "you dont have a good pedigree so we cant show you off" and we simply "dont want you here."

The fact is I have delayed family formation, buying a ring, getting married and having children etc, because I do not feel I am in the position to provide for said family etc.

Do you not think I have anger toward the less well off people who continue to have 3 to 5 children? Do you not think I wish to have a son that I can teach all that I know? Yes, I have anger over that situation but I am still empathetic to the plight of the majority.

And I am living not in downtown which is about 2.5 miles away, I live out of necessity not to go to the bars (considering I am 30 years strong with never having a drink in my life) and have a girlfriend for 3+ years now.

In fact if I go out it is only to go dancing which I only go to one place, a middle eastern club that is not in Uptown but 10 miles north from where I live. I actually go the opposite way.

I spend my time on weekends and during the week doing economic research/investments but that "hardwork" gets me no where.

Time is running out. And yes most of the financial industry people use specious arguments to peddle their "products" to make money. I dont wish to do that, I wish to run a true fund that actually takes into account for the macro (which is what a hedge fund is supposed to do not have 30% + drawdowns as most had in 2008) while also making a good return during the good years even if that just means tracking the beta of the market. The problem is most of the capital/economic decision markers have a dearth of intellect.

But they sure are great at sales and marketing their products/funds.

After reading this, I have every expectation that you will look back 30 years from now with a fair degree of satisfaction as to your ability to build wealth and achieve your goals. There's NOTHING like that sense of, hell I don't, indignity at the sort of treatment you've experienced to motivate a person. They gave you a great gift here and the bastards didn't even know it. Never, ever give up.

[jr429]

Re: Inequality much worse than most think

Jr as I have said yes some people can save and accumulate some measure of wealth.

For the majority it is no more than a subsistence living of consumerism whether they know it or not.

The thing is I realize that the collapse is coming and I have little time "relatively" to get to a position to effect change and ride out the storm. My window of opportunity is closing and after the collapse it will be 100x harder to do something else or start a business.

As most would say I am extremely intelligent, hardworking etc yet I cannot get a job at a hedge fund OR raise money to manage capital through the storm because "whatever X reason" the people managing the funds or HR think about me. I dont have the right schooling, or connections or whatever.

While trying to get a position at a large consulting company for O&G where I had a guy I knew there who took my CV directly to the head of research only to be told "sorry we see him more as a sales person than research" Wouldnt even give me an interview.

Or in the final rounds of a large asset manager 6 month interview process the head of Alternative Investments Sales & Marketing telling me "I am too young to put in front of pension funds/endowments and that he didnt believe I could be an effective sales person" This after the HF manager went to bat for me and told the firm he wanted to hire me. Enough that I interviewed with the CIO of the investment bank and he told me "The HF manager never talks anyone up and he talked you up which is impressive" Not to mention I use to be in institutional fixed income sales for a mid-tier broker dealer where I was paid only on commission and started with no connections, just about the hardest job you can have on the street.

So one says, nah we see you as sales, the other sales no you cant sell the HF you would work for? Wtf is that. Its all BS but none of those questions would arise if I had gone to Harvard.

So after 6 months what do I get? Crickets.....

The translation to that verbage is "you dont have a good pedigree so we cant show you off" and we simply "dont want you here."

The fact is I have delayed family formation, buying a ring, getting married and having children etc, because I do not feel I am in the position to provide for said family etc.

Do you not think I have anger toward the less well off people who continue to have 3 to 5 children? Do you not think I wish to have a son that I can teach all that I know? Yes, I have anger over that situation but I am still empathetic to the plight of the majority.

And I am living not in downtown which is about 2.5 miles away, I live out of necessity not to go to the bars (considering I am 30 years strong with never having a drink in my life) and have a girlfriend for 3+ years now.

In fact if I go out it is only to go dancing which I only go to one place, a middle eastern club that is not in Uptown but 10 miles north from where I live. I actually go the opposite way.

I spend my time on weekends and during the week doing economic research/investments but that "hardwork" gets me no where.

Time is running out. And yes most of the financial industry people use specious arguments to peddle their "products" to make money. I dont wish to do that, I wish to run a true fund that actually takes into account for the macro (which is what a hedge fund is supposed to do not have 30% + drawdowns as most had in 2008) while also making a good return during the good years even if that just means tracking the beta of the market. The problem is most of the capital/economic decision markers have a dearth of intellect.

But they sure are great at sales and marketing their products/funds.

None of this makes sense to me. Financial services is all about a combination of hardwork and intelligence (more so hard work). Anyone that is smart and hardworking should be taking down at least $150k with bonus given the role that you are describing. Living frugal saving $50k/year that's quite a reasonable sized personal trading portfolio after 5 years. For the relatively young (larger risk appetite) and incredibly savvy (you have to be incredibly savvy to be a fund manager) returns should have been quite good in the last 5 years lets say 100%. With that track record it should not be difficult to leverage that into employment at a number of positions This has nothing to do with pedigree that's BS. And even if you truly believed in the value of pedigree there are quite a few executive MBA programs you can sign up for. I believe Stanford is $150k that's only a % of your portfolio. The system is not against you. Being where you are you are already part of the top 5%. At that point coupled with smarts and hard work it's not hard to leverage that into a mid to high 6 figure compensation by the time you're 40.

[jr429]

Re: Inequality much worse than most think

I dont think you can compare the culture of China created over 3000 years of obedience to the state with that of the US created 250 years ago on the principles of freedom.

Some cultures are more easily "convinced" than others. Besides China has much much much more debt than the US does, their FIRE economy is on steroids it just resides mostly in government hands.

And 99% of Chinese in China dont have a "good life" and are not consumers like the US.

And the iphone thing is probably wrong at least judged by the lines and lines of people outside the Apple store.

China's current culture was created in the last 15 years. You got the debt part right. You also got the life sucks for the 99% part right. Yet the Chinese are able to get along with far less compensation given the relative cost of energy (and realestate) without being debt slaves. How do you figure that works?

As for Iphones China has a LOT of people. Back in 07 my friend asked me to purchase 1000 Iphone 3's for him which were incredibly hard to get at $417 or whatever each. I think I only managed 900pcs or so. I shoot them over and he sends me a check for $50k. I'm asking why and it's because he flipped them for $650-$700 each WHOLESALE! $700 was the equivalent of 2 months salary for an average wage earner in a major city back then. And it's all paid in cash.

Most Americans are debt slaves by choice.

[vinoveri]

Re: Inequality much worse than most think

it's human weakness, plain and simple, vice to my religiously inclined friends and social Darwinism (meanness or something I don't quite know what) to my materialist friends.

Potter is being absorbed by greed and power lust - given in to the dark side as it were

Bailey, likeable guy with common sense of virtue, and note reference to his father view that people are "all human beings to him" in contradistinction to Potter, they are cattle. (yes I know it's a Capra movie)

We're are back to the "all men are brothers" Judeo-Christian view and "spoils go to the strongest" and "humans are nothing but tools to be used by each other", which is the logical conclusion of the modern-materialist (at least the pagans have it have right in their refrain "eat, drink, and be merry for ..."

I'll keep saying it, we've lost our way; denigrating personal faith in transcendent because it is not empirical, which has been going on for sometime, has led us to have no meaningful bases or rationale for the higher virtues, those which make life, love, and friendship shared common universals which produce happiness and joy, and instead we sink into the abyss...

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: Inequality much worse than most think

None of this makes sense to me. Financial services is all about a combination of hardwork and intelligence (more so hard work). Anyone that is smart and hardworking should be taking down at least $150k with bonus given the role that you are describing. Living frugal saving $50k/year that's quite a reasonable sized personal trading portfolio after 5 years. For the relatively young (larger risk appetite) and incredibly savvy (you have to be incredibly savvy to be a fund manager) returns should have been quite good in the last 5 years lets say 100%. With that track record it should not be difficult to leverage that into employment at a number of positions This has nothing to do with pedigree that's BS. And even if you truly believed in the value of pedigree there are quite a few executive MBA programs you can sign up for. I believe Stanford is $150k that's only a % of your portfolio. The system is not against you. Being where you are you are already part of the top 5%. At that point coupled with smarts and hard work it's not hard to leverage that into a mid to high 6 figure compensation by the time you're 40.

I think you missed what I wrote.

I currently work for an RIA that manages capital for people only as an investment analyst.

We farm out most of our actual investments which means we just buy mutual funds and invest in the funds that people run for PE, HF and Oil and Gas.

In other words we just pick managers and perform due diligence on them. We dont actually pick the individual securities. This is how 90% of the RIAs are set up.

I certainly do not get paid anywhere close to 150k a year, think more along the lines of what I originally wrote as my example 60 to 70k.

The analysts here dont even get to pick the managers for the most part, they are all picked by our director of reserach who doesnt allow anyone to do anything for fear they would outshine him.

For example at the end of 2012 I suggested we shorten duration and prepare for rising yields in the bond market and argued it over emails in order to protect our clients.

I was met with "if you dont agree with what we are doing here I suggest you find another job" by the director of research.

Usually it goes something like this: Director of Reseach: do due diligence on these 5 mutual funds but I really like Thornburg and know them well and then I will present to the investment committee.

Translation: I am going to pick Thornburg no matter what and the other 4 funds I selected are just there to make Thornburg look good. The decision is already made.

Guess which mutual fund makes it into our clients allocation grids for equities?

I dont think you are understanding what I am writing/saying which perhaps is because you dont work in finance.

It's about toeing the party line and selling whatever product to make fees to clients (at least at most money managers and investment banks).

If you run a bond fund, the time to invest in bonds is always right now and there is never a time to not own bonds.

The same is true of an equity fund.

The only objective is to manage around the index and increase AUMs to earn more fees.

I am clearly not part of the top 5% and my salary did not increase last year and we dont get a bonus, if we do its like 500 dollars.

I can't even get a position at a money manager like say http://www.leggmason.com/ . Because they will take one look at my CV and see that I was in fixed income sales and not hire me to be an equity analyst or bond analyst. Or just not even look at my CV because it doesnt say Harvard.

This is how the real world works, I understand you own your own business it is not the same.

They want to see that you followed a certain path before they ever let you in.

[vt]

Re: Inequality much worse than most think

"Don't be so modest, vt. Wear that 1% crown with pride! You built it, right?"

So you throw out negative remarks like this and get upset with documented reasoning?
Just debate the issues and support them instead of some childish remark. Or maybe you cannot support your contentions.

As for delusional political allegiances, what do we make of this?

"If elected I believe Romney-Ryan will unwind FIRE and promote TECI."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoz...thcare-reform/

At least Romney can set up a health plan that runs right

Perhaps Romney would have done a good job of getting TECI going; Obama certainly has not.

[jr429]

Re: Inequality much worse than most think

I think you missed what I wrote.

I currently work for an RIA that manages capital for people only as an investment analyst.

We farm out most of our actual investments which means we just buy mutual funds and invest in the funds that people run for PE, HF and Oil and Gas.

In other words we just pick managers and perform due diligence on them. We dont actually pick the individual securities. This is how 90% of the RIAs are set up.

I certainly do not get paid anywhere close to 150k a year, think more along the lines of what I originally wrote as my example 60 to 70k.

The analysts here dont even get to pick the managers for the most part, they are all picked by our director of reserach who doesnt allow anyone to do anything for fear they would outshine him.

For example at the end of 2012 I suggested we shorten duration and prepare for rising yields in the bond market and argued it over emails in order to protect our clients.

I was met with "if you dont agree with what we are doing here I suggest you find another job" by the director of research.

Usually it goes something like this: Director of Reseach: do due diligence on these 5 mutual funds but I really like Thornburg and know them well and then I will present to the investment committee.

Translation: I am going to pick Thornburg no matter what and the other 4 funds I selected are just there to make Thornburg look good. The decision is already made.

Guess which mutual fund makes it into our clients allocation grids for equities?

I dont think you are understanding what I am writing/saying which perhaps is because you dont work in finance.

It's about toeing the party line and selling whatever product to make fees to clients (at least at most money managers and investment banks).

If you run a bond fund, the time to invest in bonds is always right now and there is never a time to not own bonds.

The same is true of an equity fund.

The only objective is to manage around the index and increase AUMs to earn more fees.

I am clearly not part of the top 5% and my salary did not increase last year and we dont get a bonus, if we do its like 500 dollars.

I can't even get a position at a money manager like say http://www.leggmason.com/ . Because they will take one look at my CV and see that I was in fixed income sales and not hire me to be an equity analyst or bond analyst. Or just not even look at my CV because it doesnt say Harvard.

This is how the real world works, I understand you own your own business it is not the same.

They want to see that you followed a certain path before they ever let you in.

You say not the real world. But I know quite a few people in financial services and barriers based on "pedigree" or whatever is just not how it works. Seems like you started late in your career - with hard work and applied intelligence you should be able to move up to VP or Director level fairly quickly. Of course you'll want to select an upwardly mobile firm. And perhaps there's an "ole boy" type network in Dallas - I doubt it but I cannot say it doesn't exist, but that's not about pedigree, that's about who your buddies are. If you really feel there's a barrier you should go to NY or Cali where there isn't one. I know plenty of people who went from JC to state school that are working as VP's, Directors etc at various financial services. And I'm talking about people in early-mid 30's. It IS the FIRE economy after all. After this economy blows up - sure things might be different, but I believe that IF/WHEN the FIRE economy blows up there will be more opportunity not less.

This thread is pretty entertaining - those in the 5% wanting to be part of the 0.5% and those against the FIRE economy encouraging participants of FIRE. I cannot say I'm not guilty of either/or but it's certainly entertaining

[gwynedd1]

Re: Inequality much worse than most think

China's current culture was created in the last 15 years. You got the debt part right. You also got the life sucks for the 99% part right. Yet the Chinese are able to get along with far less compensation given the relative cost of energy (and realestate) without being debt slaves. How do you figure that works?

I find this to be an extremely naive, uniquely American perspective that China has entered into a new fad. China used to be state of the art. They collapsed for the same reason, the large estate that alienates producers from deploying the surplus.

Since I am no debt slave myself I know how it works. I like not even paying cash as entertainment and life style. More fun to can free fruit on a homemade rocket stove with fuel people in my neighborhood toss for $4 a bag.

As for Iphones China has a LOT of people. Back in 07 my friend asked me to purchase 1000 Iphone 3's for him which were incredibly hard to get at $417 or whatever each. I think I only managed 900pcs or so. I shoot them over and he sends me a check for $50k. I'm asking why and it's because he flipped them for $650-$700 each WHOLESALE! $700 was the equivalent of 2 months salary for an average wage earner in a major city back then. And it's all paid in cash.

Most Americans are debt slaves by choice.

I do find it interesting though that you made your money through connections(hard to get) and arbitrage and act as though anyone can raise nearly 400k. Since I was a jobber in my 20s, I know just how little talent it takes other than to have the right connections and the buying power. Made my money when I purchased it I'd say. I went from buying by the skid to semi load before I decided I didn't want to get rich at 60, especially since I partnered with the wrong person early in the process. That's what happens when you start out with 1 grain on the chess board instead of 128. If I had access to 500k at that time I'd have 10s of millions by 40.


And come to think of it, did that arrangement go though customs?

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: Inequality much worse than most think

You say not the real world. But I know quite a few people in financial services and barriers based on "pedigree" or whatever is just not how it works. Seems like you started late in your career - with hard work and applied intelligence you should be able to move up to VP or Director level fairly quickly. Of course you'll want to select an upwardly mobile firm. And perhaps there's an "ole boy" type network in Dallas - I doubt it but I cannot say it doesn't exist, but that's not about pedigree, that's about who your buddies are. If you really feel there's a barrier you should go to NY or Cali where there isn't one. I know plenty of people who went from JC to state school that are working as VP's, Directors etc at various financial services. And I'm talking about people in early-mid 30's. It IS the FIRE economy after all. After this economy blows up - sure things might be different, but I believe that IF/WHEN the FIRE economy blows up there will be more opportunity not less.

This thread is pretty entertaining - those in the 5% wanting to be part of the 0.5% and those against the FIRE economy encouraging participants of FIRE. I cannot say I'm not guilty of either/or but it's certainly entertaining

I have no desire to be part of the 1% or 0.5%. I simply want to get to work doing real investment work better than anyone else.

If I ran a fund as soon as I could I would not manage money for anyone of the HNW variety and just manage for pension funds (the little guy money).

I have no desire to buy a lot of things and I am content on having a small room full of tatami mats to sleep on, train BJJ, do yoga and stretch on.

Aside from wanting a real Japanese made sword with the metal folded 200 times there is not much else I want that would be considered a luxury.

I only want to make more money to provide for my mother and other family members, nothing else.

Once I get a position of authority then I can change the system from the inside and go against it

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: Inequality much worse than most think

I find this to be an extremely naive, uniquely American perspective that China has entered into a new fad. China used to be state of the art. They collapsed for the same reason, the large estate that alienates producers from deploying the surplus.

Since I am no debt slave myself I know how it works. I like not even paying cash as entertainment and life style. More fun to can free fruit on a homemade rocket stove with fuel people in my neighborhood toss for $4 a bag.




I do find it interesting though that you made your money through connections(hard to get) and arbitrage and act as though anyone can raise nearly 400k. Since I was a jobber in my 20s, I know just how little talent it takes other than to have the right connections and the buying power. Made my money when I purchased it I'd say. I went from buying by the skid to semi load before I decided I didn't want to get rich at 60, especially since I partnered with the wrong person early in the process. That's what happens when you start out with 1 grain on the chess board instead of 128. If I had access to 500k at that time I'd have 10s of millions by 40.


And come to think of it, did that arrangement go though customs?

If I had access even to 100k of capital to trade, I would actually be worth something more than peanuts at this moment.

[jr429]

Re: Inequality much worse than most think

I find this to be an extremely naive, uniquely American perspective that China has entered into a new fad. China used to be state of the art. They collapsed for the same reason, the large estate that alienates producers from deploying the surplus.

Since I am no debt slave myself I know how it works. I like not even paying cash as entertainment and life style. More fun to can free fruit on a homemade rocket stove with fuel people in my neighborhood toss for $4 a bag.

I do find it interesting though that you made your money through connections(hard to get) and arbitrage and act as though anyone can raise nearly 400k. Since I was a jobber in my 20s, I know just how little talent it takes other than to have the right connections and the buying power. Made my money when I purchased it I'd say. I went from buying by the skid to semi load before I decided I didn't want to get rich at 60, especially since I partnered with the wrong person early in the process. That's what happens when you start out with 1 grain on the chess board instead of 128. If I had access to 500k at that time I'd have 10s of millions by 40.

American Naivety heh. How many times have you actually been to China? Have you taken the time to learn to speak, read, write mandarin?

How do you think I got the 400k to buy Iphones? Mommy and daddy? I started my business as a super-senior in college with my wife (gf at the time) with borrowed $15k. I didn't earn a paycheck for 3 years my wife supported me by working 2 jobs. Are you implying I got my connections through mommy and daddy? Or do you think my connections were built over the years and strengthened after successful deal after deal? And you really think I made my money through Iphones? I just brought up Iphones because it was brought up to someone else. For fun in 2010 I picked up 76 Nissan GTR engines a deal which no one would touch and successfully flipped them by solving several issues with them. Got a free $100k car and some pocket change of it. It's certainly not my job but it is fair to say I heard about this deal and was able to flip these motors because of "connections too" - but then again I guess everything we do is either from "connections" or from "past experience" no?

I've been reading this forum for many years now and lately there's a lot of mis-directed anger from obviously very intelligent people. A little disappointing...

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: Inequality much worse than most think

American Naivety heh. How many times have you actually been to China? Have you taken the time to learn to speak, read, write mandarin?

How do you think I got the 400k to buy Iphones? Mommy and daddy? I started my business as a super-senior in college with my wife (gf at the time) with borrowed $15k. I didn't earn a paycheck for 3 years my wife supported me by working 2 jobs. Are you implying I got my connections through mommy and daddy? Or do you think my connections were built over the years and strengthened after successful deal after deal? And you really think I made my money through Iphones? I just brought up Iphones because it was brought up to someone else. For fun in 2010 I picked up 76 Nissan GTR engines a deal which no one would touch and successfully flipped them by solving several issues with them. Got a free $100k car and some pocket change of it. It's certainly not my job but it is fair to say I heard about this deal and was able to flip these motors because of "connections too" - but then again I guess everything we do is either from "connections" or from "past experience" no?

I've been reading this forum for many years now and lately there's a lot of mis-directed anger from obviously very intelligent people. A little disappointing...

So you had your GF supporting you for 3 years, that is no different than someones parents supporting them for 3 years while they worked on a business.

I wish my father would do that. If I suggested even 1 year he would laugh in my face.

Consider yourself lucky and one of the few that even has that here it comes again "opportunity."

Imagine if you had to actually work a full time job and try to start the business plus manage your finances etc.

It would have been harder.

[Woodsman]

Re: Inequality much worse than most think

"Don't be so modest, vt. Wear that 1% crown with pride! You built it, right?"

So you throw out negative remarks like this and get upset with documented reasoning?
Just debate the issues and support them instead of some childish remark. Or maybe you cannot support your contentions.



"If elected I believe Romney-Ryan will unwind FIRE and promote TECI."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoz...thcare-reform/

At least Romney can set up a health plan that runs right

Perhaps Romney would have done a good job of getting TECI going; Obama certainly has not.

You really think I'm defending the Obama and the Dems here? Is that what you think this is about, vt? Okeydokey.

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: Inequality much worse than most think

"Don't be so modest, vt. Wear that 1% crown with pride! You built it, right?"

So you throw out negative remarks like this and get upset with documented reasoning?
Just debate the issues and support them instead of some childish remark. Or maybe you cannot support your contentions.



"If elected I believe Romney-Ryan will unwind FIRE and promote TECI."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoz...thcare-reform/

At least Romney can set up a health plan that runs right

Perhaps Romney would have done a good job of getting TECI going; Obama certainly has not.

Hey VT, please dont let the FIRE economy interests pull you into the trap of thinking that there are actual two parties that have diametric views opposite of each other.

We know both parties are one in the same and the FIRE interests distract the populace making these issues right vs left.

[jr429]

Re: Inequality much worse than most think

So you had your GF supporting you for 3 years, that is no different than someones parents supporting them for 3 years while they worked on a business.

I wish my father would do that. If I suggested even 1 year he would laugh in my face.

Consider yourself lucky and one of the few that even has that here it comes again "opportunity."

Imagine if you had to actually work a full time job and try to start the business plus manage your finances etc.

It would have been harder.

You're suggesting the sole reason my business was successful was because my GF supported me for 3 years? That's an interesting perspective...

In my opinion any successful entrepreneur = 10% Luck + 40% Intelligence + 50% Aggressiveness

BTW I do consider myself very lucky. The sole reason my business was successful is my wife is a genius not because she supported us (we were profitable, our boot-strap growth rate would just have been lower). She figured out how to do all of accounting, financial infrastructure, and taxes so I could focus on the business.