Walmart holds Food Drive for its Own Employees

[lektrode]

Re: Walmart holds Food Drive for its Own Employees

yo dc!
again sir, you've outdone yerself...

I believe we're talking past each other again, perhaps due to definitional difficulties, and perhaps due to us holding widely differing beliefs.....
....
We need common definitions or we cannot communicate effectively.

What I mean by "left" is the common meaning of the term in America. This refers to someone, like me, who supports republicanism, democratic values, and social liberalism.
....
Now, these are all loaded concepts, so let me do the bare minimum of unpacking them:...
....

+1
and loaded is an understatement, big guy....
;)

esp since it never occurred to me that i was a 'leftie' (altho as i understand it, the terms 'rightwing' and 'leftwing' descended from the english house of commons(?) where the right side of the hall was filled with pols who rep'd the owners/aristocracy POV and the left side of the hall was filled with reps of the peasant/working classes' POV ??) - altho i will admit - being a self-employed type - that while my politix generally sides with the business-oriented POV, that i do strongly believe that business, particularly BIG BIZ's corporatocracy/kleptocracy - owes the working class more than WE, The People are getting - and its BIG GOV that is catering to the corporate interests, at the expense of us SMALL BIZ/working stiffs

and this all (above) seemed - to me, a typical J6P - to simplify 'definitions' - right up til the 'old philosophy' definitions of 'liberalism' and 'socialism' gets to be - to me - kinda far-out into.... uhhhh.... left field (pardon the pun, i'm still reeling from the 'sox pullin another one out the hat ;)

which also seems to me, to be where things get overly complicated, as it pertains to 'modern' US politix - and IMHO, is why the use of these labels, esp here in The New World, itself still a mere child of evolution _away_ from the constraints of 'traditions' of the old world (namely the aristocracy, particularly the monarchies of old europe, which are still in power there today - and we now have (some in) the political class attempting to re-create exactly that which that not even 200 years after the founders threw-off that whole twistedly corrupt system, risked EVERYTHING and paid the ultimate price to succeed - only to have events beginning exactly 100years ago that have put us directly on the track to accomplish precisely what they warned us about - namely Jefferson's warning about the banks, the 'national' bank, in particular)

at least thats how my limited educational background is able to parse it all - and, again - i SINCERELY APPRECIATE you taking the time to expand on all this stuff (never mind the effort in typing it all, since either you likely think/type _much_ faster than i can, or are at least as good as i am with CTRL-A, CTRL-C, CTRL-V ;)

As Sartori said, we are prisoners of the words we pick, we had better pick them well.

And I think we're on much better ground trying to begin from a basis in old philosophy rather than trying to begin by defining things the way the think-tank propaganda machines do.

Otherwise, we cannot even have a meaningful conversation.

+1 to that too.

methinks most of us DO actually agree more on a lot of this stuff than we seem to disagree on - at least when it comes to
'where we are' - it seems to me that its 'how we got here' is where the disagreement develops?

and having had the benefit of being a (former) new englander, growing up/ coming of age and a commuter tween 2 of the most glaringly different states' M.O.'s in The US (that would be MA & NH, with ME to the right and... umm... VT to the.... uhhhh... left ;) - i happen to think i have some pretty credible POV on this kinda stuff (never mind after having lived in FL, CA & HI)

and i have to agree with a lot of, maybe even most of what VT is getting at - while perhaps not as eloquent as either he or yourself is at explaining - what it gets down to for me is that one side of the aisle in particular (with no allegience to either, seeing as too many are RINO/DINO's and NONE seem to have any more conviction beyond what the latest lib-dominated media-driven opinion polls are bullhorning this week)

the REAL PROBLEM?

is defined - IMHO - by emergence of The Political Aristocracy, that has - mostly - developed since the days of the 'camelot' bunch in the 60's

and the elevation of political 'science' within the halls of academia to that which garners the .edu-industrial complex along with the social-welfare-industrial complex more power today than even the .mil-industrial complex has?

coupled with the near total take-over of the .gov by the legal-industrial complex - which gets their strings pulled from lower manhattan - witnessed/evidenced by the actions - or more precisely - the LACK of action by the dept of 'justice' with its absolute _failure_ to address some of the most aggregious economic harm that has ever been foisted upon WE, The People - while the party in power continues to shower BILLIONS IN FAVORS to the pet constituencies
(not withstanding the TRILLIONS already bestowed upon their biggest contributors)

its still my position that LIMITING THE .GOV'S ABILITY TO TAX AND SPEND IS OUR ONLY 'hope for change'
as the political class shows no intention whatsover of changing a GD thing - no matter _what_ side of the aisle they're sitting on (this year/election cycle) - and the benefit of this can STILL be seen, near 400years later, in the state with the now somewhat quaint moto of:

The Live Free or Die State
despite the 'best efforts' of some of the newcomers to 'fix things'

and thus i remain, a 'small-r' type (who appreciates you - and woody's - taking the time to educate us 'rightwingers' )

but - still waiting on an answer to one question -
seeing as the topic here is wally-world - on which i have a(nother long boring story i'd like to share with y'all)

and that was the question that Mr J asked, on the last sentence of his post above:

....

The forbidden conversation in the United States is about culture and class and luck and what it takes to make good luck: hard work.

Is Walmart a cause or an effect of the American political economy?

in this 'big game of jeopardy' we find ourselves in?

i'll take "famous quotes for $200, alex (EJ)..."

who was it that said - of a certain 'free trade' deal - that if it passes, the only thing we'll hear is

THAT GIANT SUCKING SOUND

as the productive capacity of what was once the mightiest productive economy/country/people that ever existed on earth gets offshored - in the name of 'comparative advantage' and 'profits' ?

AND NOW THE LIB-LEFT-DEMS WANT TO BLAME ALL THIS ON WALMART?

next joke - i say of the big-boxification of america - of which wally world is merely one of the best competitors?

this is AN EFFECT of the political economy
and we can blame _that_ on the proponents of BIG GOV as well.

[lakedaemonian]

Re: Walmart holds Food Drive for its Own Employees

Same here. By far Amazon.com gets majority of my money. Way too convenient! Free streaming video. Shows up at my door in two days. Items in stock. No surly employees to face. No commissioned salesman pushing me to buy a warranty. If i have a problem just send it back at their expense. I can email them and get an articulate response. I even sell items of my own there. Dont know for a fact but I would bet the average employee does a lot better there than at Walmart. How can that be possible?(sarcasm)Retail just does not make sense for some things anymore. I even buy some electrical parts there for my business. Saves time and they have things in stock unlike local suppliers. Usually cheaper too.

I'm about 13 years removed from Amazon.

But during my time there a number of things occurred:

Unionisation efforts by a union that wanted at least partial payment of union dues in the form of employee stock options(ramp up pre-crash)

I was closely involved in the company's legal union busting(or would that be mitigation strategy) activity with it's specially retained law firm

Union reps were probing distribution locations using very aggressive tactics up through and including stand over tactics and running staff off the road to intimidate them.

Once the Dot Com bubble popped, some mid level managers were guilty of promising a return to far higher share prices since hourly staff were paid not much above minimum wage, benefits were minimal, and everyone received share options up until that time with most under water, often deeply under water. I was privy to some of these conversations from entry level employees and was absolutely furious such tactics were being used to retain staff with little short-to-medium term hope of getting their heads above water with their share options.

Share options was THE big recruiting/employment inducement because of the mediocre wage/benefits packages on offer.

A class action lawsuit was filed against Amazon that included a component regarding the inappropriate/illegal promises of higher share prices to which I provided affidavit/sworn testimony against the company.

I've been a bit persona non grata with a few former co-workers still with the company.

The way I saw it for entry level hourly workers was that the unionisation effort was for the benefit of the union(grab a chunk of individual stock options as dues) as their efforts largely ended with the Dot Com crash as I recall(at least in the US…I think German Amazon.de workers just went on strike).

And the company was working hard to smash unionisation efforts….legally, but quite aggressively.

I saw entry level workers as pawns caught in the middle.

I think since that time wages have improved as share option compensation has reduced, but they've still have the odd labour problem(like Germany Amazon.de as we speak).

In the early days we were limited to narrow trading window restrictions as insiders, but as the company grew the trading shackles came off and the collar went on before the crash.

I spent a small fortune at a TGIF bar/restaurant running Friday happy hours for entry level staff and supervisors whose options were getting killed by the dot com crash. Probably a bit of guilt mixed with a desire to mitigate a riot.

We all worked hard……a few of us were lucky, even fewer were smart, most were unlucky.

That experience and that luck had a profound effect on me.

Amazon has some great people working for it, and has a long history of innovation and success….but it has also displayed characteristics that parallel other companies/people with less than stellar integrity.

I tend to think of Amazon a bit like Warren Buffett.

The grandfatherly smile and the smile on the box hide a borderline disingenuous ruthlessness and cunning with carefully cultured portrayals of benevolence.

[Thailandnotes]

Re: Walmart holds Food Drive for its Own Employees

Thanks for that post Lake,

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/26/us...rnia.html?_r=0

Ron Unz, a Silicon Valley millionaire, rose to fame by promoting a ballot initiative that essentially eliminated bilingual education in California. He went on to become publisher of The American Conservative, a libertarian-leaning magazine.

But after decades in the conservative movement, Mr. Unz is pursuing a goal that has stymied liberals: raising the minimum wage. He plans to pour his own money into a ballot measure to increase the minimum wage in California to $10 an hour in 2015 and $12 in 2016, which would make it by far the highest in the nation. Currently, it is $8 — 75 cents higher than the federal minimum.

huh?

[dcarrigg]

Re: Walmart holds Food Drive for its Own Employees

Thanks for that post Lake,

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/26/us...rnia.html?_r=0

Ron Unz, a Silicon Valley millionaire, rose to fame by promoting a ballot initiative that essentially eliminated bilingual education in California. He went on to become publisher of The American Conservative, a libertarian-leaning magazine.

But after decades in the conservative movement, Mr. Unz is pursuing a goal that has stymied liberals: raising the minimum wage. He plans to pour his own money into a ballot measure to increase the minimum wage in California to $10 an hour in 2015 and $12 in 2016, which would make it by far the highest in the nation. Currently, it is $8 — 75 cents higher than the federal minimum.

huh?

It's bad reporting. The American Conservative is a paleoconservative publication, not a libertarian one. It's more Pat Buchanan than Ayn Rand - it's not afraid to question trade agreements or economic arrangements. In fact, check this article out from the American Conservative called "Libertarianism, the Marxism of the Right." It's not exactly something a straight "libertarian-leaning" magazine would publish. The publication has warmed a bit to it as libertarianism has risen in popularity in recent years, but it is by no means another Cato or Reason.

Anyone who follows Ron Unz would have read this last year:

Public policy experts sometimes glorify complexity, proposing intricate, interlocking systems aimed at a desired result. But such structures are only as strong as their weakest link, and a proposal too complex to fully understand is also too complex to fix. Our government has sought to ensure a decent living for American workers through an enormous array of income subsidies, public benefits, training programs, and educational loans; at this point, many of these components have accumulated powerful and parasitic side-beneficiaries while leaving the working class behind.

Since this vast and leaky conglomeration has failed at its intended goal, perhaps we should just try raising wages instead.

So I don't find it surprising. I don't agree with everything Unz says. But to characterize him as a libertarian would be off. He's generally much more empirically driven (even if sometimes off in his interpretation) than theoretically driven - he is clearly no fan of big government, but he cares about facts and results more than starting with the first principle that government is always and in every case bad and working backwards from that. And there are more traditionally libertarian-leaning authors there - authors even debate one another openly instead of just towing a party line. So you get articles like this, which some find shocking. And you get exchanges like this and this. All-in-all, whatever you think of it, it's more of a thinking publication than many on both the right and left out there. And I guess that's where it confused Jen Medina.

[Woodsman]

Re: Walmart holds Food Drive for its Own Employees

It has always struck me as odd, even perverse, that former Marxists have been permitted, yes invited, to play such a leading role in the Conservative movement of the twentieth century. It is splendid when the town whore gets religion and joins the church. Now and then she makes a good choir director, but when she begins to tell the minister what he ought to say in his Sunday sermons, matters have been carried too far.

[Slimprofits]

Re: Walmart holds Food Drive for its Own Employees

The bailout using hundreds of billions of taxpayer money to bail out the banksters also is never mentioned by the left.

Are you auditioning for employment with The Onion? That's good stuff.

[lektrode]

Re: Walmart holds Food Drive for its Own Employees

well i sense its time for me to step in again and re-iterate Mr J's question - seeing as the topic here is walmart, not the definition of libertarian, or whether the left-lib-dem-run lamestream media is all that interested in focusing on The Biggest Injustice of ALLTIME - and i'd almost bet that the onion has expended more effort on doing so that most of em - short of the rolling stone and matt taibbi

so - before i share my walmart story - i'm still waiting on the answers y'all have for this one:

.....
Is Walmart a cause or an effect of the American political economy?

my walmart story - part roadtrip, part political-economy comment - goes like this...

in the late '80s when i began my odyssey/sojurn south and west - the bigboxification of america hadnt really gotten going - i mean THE bigbox store in them daze - at least in the new england area - was k-mart - i had never even seen or been in a walmart, nor costco, nor homedepot, nor any of the rest of the dozen or so 'category killers' that have built themselves out by the THOUSANDS across the US &N america over the past 20years or so....

so - fast fwd to 1990 in HNL - having just been to a costco for the first time that year - which was the first of the bigbox's in HI and had opened the year b4, i think - and which also happened to be costco's highest grossing store, IIRC, during the early 90's - since we didnt even have k-mart out there then and the local merchant hui ('partnership') basically had a pretty tight lock on just about everything, with sears and jc penney being about the only big nat'l chains that had established a beach head out there - let me tell ya, when i say 'tight' i'm talkin near double for a lot of stuff - so it wasnt any co-incidence that costco's HNL store was #1 in sales.

slowly but surely over the next 10-15years they all came to HI tho - and following costco was k-mart - and the lines to get into their store on opening day were HUGE - i mean H E A D L I N E S and LIVE TV huge - and stayed that way for weeks - talk about pentup demand - walmart and sams club, followed by 'tar-jay'/target - were the later arrivals, but the lines were even HUGER...

anyway - fast fwd to 2000 - when i had launched a plan to setup shop in ft lauderdale, with my plan at that time to try a seasonal transient lifestyle - aka the annual migration thing, so that i'd be on the right coast for the holidaze, see mom/family etc and transit thru the rockies, stopping enroute for some R&R along the way/over n back...

so - after the 1st W to E trans-continental hop and having left my chevy in LA the spring before - this was late 2001 - had put a new set of snow tires on the prev fall - and it was time for some new sneakers on the other 2 wheels - so went into a costco there in LA - requested the snow tire-equiped wheels be put on the real axle and the new tires be put on the front/drive wheels - since i was about to drive cross country and wanted NEW tires on the front, for smoooother high-velocity cruising, as snow tires tend to be kinda vibratey at speeds above 75-80 or so - and a 3000mi+/4day jaunt is nerve racking enuf without your front-end shimmying on ya - and here's the kicker...

the costco tire counter guy tells me that 'their policy, when replacing only 2 tires, is to put the new tires on the rear axle ONLY'

huh?
yer tellin me that on MY car, MY tires and i cant put them where I WANT EM????
yer kiddin?
nope - "...thats what the lawyers tell us we have to do... something about 'safer'..."
REALLY?
you gotta be yankin me here - i mean, i'm about to drive to NH and i want the new tires on the front, because it WONT be snowing the way over and the snow tires will wear better on the rear and i want SMOOOTH driving at the 80-90mph i'll be cruising at - and I CANT PUT EM WHERE I WANT EM???

nope....

ok - well f... you, me and MY MONEY are goin elsewhere, thankyou very much, FOR NUTHIN!!!

and i launched outa torrance with a VERY BAD ATTITUDE, knowing that i really should get the tires before hitting the open road - so... i get on the 40 and not even past the 1st exit "...just as i cross that 'fresno' line..." and, yep, you guessed it...
BOOOM!!
i lose one and at this point i am FOAMING AT THE MOUTH, BS P-Oh'd and vow to NEVER EVER GO INTO A COSTCO FOR TIRES AGAIN!!!!

so - with that ole charlie daniels song playin in my head - and thinkin about how i'm gonna hafta limp on down the shoulder on the rim, an all - get disgusted about having to change the flat, put on the spare and THEN go get new tires - look up and across the offramp and what do my wondering eyes see?

well looky there - a wally world, right over there - hey - wonder if they got an auto bay...

well hell, aint never been in one of these and its a 'super walmart' to boot?

so with ole charlies song _still_ playin in the background in my head, stranded on the side of eastbound i-40 there in 'suburban fresno' - wondering if i'd run into three big dudes would come a strollin' in With this one old drunk chick and some fella' with green teeth - i pulled into the 'super walmart' - and YES they do have auto bays and YES they can get right on it and...

the kicker: YES I CAN HAVE MY TIRES PUT ON ANY AXLE I WANT EM ON????

and in the 20mins that it took em, i cruised thru my first-ever wally world and was simply AMAZED at what they had goin-on there - got every last minute item that i woulda or coulda needed on my roadtrip, everything i needed far as christmas shopping - it was then just a week away - and not only that, but THEY WAS CHEAPER THAN COSTCO!???

yeah baybee - this was MY kinda store and not nearly as crowded as the torrance costco was, neither....

so, you might say that i had a favorable POV on them at that moment - and will go further and say that without walmart a vast cross section of the US population, particularly the less than well-off, those depending on social 'security' and EBT/foodstamps esp - would have a much harder time with mere survival, again these daze in particular.

so - will pose the rhetorical question: is it walmarts 'fault' ?

IS IT WALMARTS FAULT THAT THIS SITUATION EXISTS???

as Mr J asks above - is this a CAUSE OR EFFECT of the 'service economy' that is now shafting the working class?

IMHO, the 'service economy' is merely just another fraud in the financialization of The US Economy

[dcarrigg]

Re: Walmart holds Food Drive for its Own Employees

A lot of the service economy expansion has been FIRE expansion. It's been the biggest expansion by GDP - although it's healthcare that takes the cake as a sector by employment. So far as cause and effect? Probably it's non-linear. Policy always starts the ball a'rolling. But somebody always agitates for policy. Feels more like feedback than a clean struck open 'E' to me.

[vt]

Re: Walmart holds Food Drive for its Own Employees

I've seen nothing by the DNC, the White House, Pelosi, Reid, Hoyer, the New York Times, or any other elected Democrat that calls for any bankster to go to jail.

Maybe a lefty writer or two. Certainly, as Lextrode says, our friend Matt Taibbi. And of course I've posted many times to do this.

Just like the left condemns Israel and not the atrocities of the Islamist radicals. Right and left are corrupt; the public knows it and wants to be rid of both. Power the Objective Center!

[GRG55]

Re: Walmart holds Food Drive for its Own Employees

Same here. By far Amazon.com gets majority of my money. Way too convenient! Free streaming video. Shows up at my door in two days. Items in stock. No surly employees to face. No commissioned salesman pushing me to buy a warranty. If i have a problem just send it back at their expense. I can email them and get an articulate response. I even sell items of my own there. Dont know for a fact but I would bet the average employee does a lot better there than at Walmart. How can that be possible?(sarcasm)Retail just does not make sense for some things anymore. I even buy some electrical parts there for my business. Saves time and they have things in stock unlike local suppliers. Usually cheaper too.

One more nail in the WalMart coffin courtesy of Amazon?

Delivery to your doorstep or patio in 30 minutes ( I wouldn't be looking to a long term career if I were a UPS employee). This is actually going to be easier and faster to implement than Google's "driverless" cars.

[flintlock]

Re: Walmart holds Food Drive for its Own Employees

Interesting. The old promise the future trick. It goes on at all levels of business. i remember the electrical contractor I worked for during summers in college. Talking to other employees, I soon realized at least three were promised a chance to buy the company for cheap when the owner retired. Each thought they were the only one and stuck around for years for low pay, waiting on the payoff , which never came of course. Home Depot built a good reputation for its employee stock plan in its early years. My wife did pretty well with it. But years later, after the company matured, employees were still being enticed to work for low pay with stories of millionaire clerks. Eventually they figured out things were never going to be like that again and in my opinion the company has never been the same.

[flintlock]

Re: Walmart holds Food Drive for its Own Employees

One more nail in the WalMart coffin courtesy of Amazon?

Delivery to your doorstep or patio in 30 minutes ( I wouldn't be looking to a long term career if I were a UPS employee). This is actually going to be easier and faster to implement than Google's "driverless" cars.

Publicity stunt? Cant really see hundreds of these flying all over the place carrying 5lb bombs in residential areas can you?

Recently i was working outside a home and kept hearing a small engine noise but could not determine the source. Eventually I looked up and saw one of these drone helicopters hovering about 50 feet over me. I took a picture of it and it eventually left the area. Weird when you dont know what exactly its doing.

[dcarrigg]

Re: Walmart holds Food Drive for its Own Employees

Publicity stunt? Cant really see hundreds of these flying all over the place carrying 5lb bombs in residential areas can you?

Recently i was working outside a home and kept hearing a small engine noise but could not determine the source. Eventually I looked up and saw one of these drone helicopters hovering about 50 feet over me. I took a picture of it and it eventually left the area. Weird when you dont know what exactly its doing.

I'll sign up for this right after I get my first ride in Elon Musk's hypertube. Or was that hypetube? Wait, when's the last time him or Bezos turned a profit again? Better invest more.

[flintlock]

Re: Walmart holds Food Drive for its Own Employees

The thought crossed my mind that it could have been the local govt checking up on zoning infractions or unlicensed construction. I know for a fact a local city pays people full time to pour over satellite maps and look for structures not permitted and other violations. A customer said he built a small trellis over his patio and one day a code enforcement officer showed up at his door. Paid a fine, which is all they were after anyway. Things are getting stranger every day. I caution anyone who thinks "they'll never know" to think twice. Big Brother is watching.

[DSpencer]

Re: Walmart holds Food Drive for its Own Employees

Somewhere along the way we lost that sense of shame in our country....not sure when but it is a pretty rare feature, at least as presented before us in media.

Was the loss started when Nixon lied and departed from the White House, probably believing all along that he was "right", later going on to write and have published many books, weighing in on international matters? Was it when Rob Lowe and pal filmed an exploit with a young lady, was shunned for a short period of time but now is a beloved actor in Hollywood produced TV/movie features? The list goes on and on, not sure why I picked those two. The former was captured in iconic images, the latter conveniently forgotten. I know on this site we talk of (and I agree) how the American Way includes a culture of "getting a second chance", but along the way, some of those getting the second chance didn't deserve it, but they got it anyway.

We seeing it in spades now with the rather limited prosections of crimes committed on Wall Street. Cause all of that damage to the US Economy, and the future of this country, and WALK? Phooey!

Great concept. I see this all the time and it's so frustrating. Every time I see Marv Albert I just have to question: is this guy really such a great sportscaster that they can't find a replacement who didn't plead guilty to assault and battery?

How creepy is it that people still listen to love songs by Chris Brown after he hospitalized his girlfriend?

Like you said the list goes on. It's one thing to be given a second chance in terms of being able to have some kind of life after you make a mistake. It seems odd though how quick society is to return people to their former fame and wealth. Why can't Chris Brown and Michael Vick get their second chance by getting a job as a janitor?