Israel Working With Saudis On Iran Strike Plan

[vt]

Evidently the Saudis no longer trust the U.S. for their security:

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/...cle1341561.ece

Two old foes unite against Tehran

Convinced that Iran is tricking the world over nuclear weapons, Israel and Saudi Arabia may work together to curb its ambitionsUzi Mahnaimi, Tel Aviv Published: 17 November 2013Comment (19) PrintNetanyahu and King Abdullah have a common interest in a possible air attack on IranNetanyahu and King Abdullah have a common interest in a possible air attack on Iran (NIR BEN-YOSEF/AFP/AVI OHAYON)ONCE they were sworn enemies. Now Israel’s Mossad intelligence agency is working with Saudi officials on contingency plans for a possible attack on Iran if its nuclear programme is not significantly curbed in a deal that could be signed in Geneva this week.Both the Israeli and Saudi governments are convinced that the international talks to place limits on Tehran’s military nuclear development amount to appeasement and will do little to slow its development of a nuclear warhead.As part of the growing co-operation, Riyadh is understood already to have given the go-ahead for Israeli planes to use its airspace in the event of an attack on Iran.Both sides are now prepared to go much further. The Sunni kingdom is as alarmed as Israel by the nuclear ambitions of the Shi’ite-dominated Iran.

[Mega]

Re: Israel Working With Saudis On Iran Strike Plan

You think they would have learnt something from 1973......Isreal lost 250+ planes, know with in the IAF as the Great Sam Mass-a-ka. Without US help to surpress Iran/Russian state of the Air Sams the IAF will simply get blown out of the sky.

The last time Israel tried to attack over their bonders was in the Leboron, look what happened...they got their arses handed to them!

This is BULSH1T
Israel wants a pay out from US for "being good" & Saud are just pissed at getting beat in Syria.

Mike

[lakedaemonian]

Re: Israel Working With Saudis On Iran Strike Plan

You think they would have learnt something from 1973......Isreal lost 250+ planes, know with in the IAF as the Great Sam Mass-a-ka. Without US help to surpress Iran/Russian state of the Air Sams the IAF will simply get blown out of the sky.

The last time Israel tried to attack over their bonders was in the Leboron, look what happened...they got their arses handed to them!

This is BULSH1T
Israel wants a pay out from US for "being good" & Saud are just pissed at getting beat in Syria.

Mike

You are mistaken.

In 1982 the IAF systematically destroyed 17-19 modern Syrian SAM batteries as well as shot down approximately 80 Syrian Air Force planes for a loss of 1-2 aircraft.

While UAVs/drones had been used prior(including Vietnam and over Mainland China from Taiwan), 31 years ago it was the first time they were an integral part of an operational plan more reminiscent of the last 10 years.

In 2007 the IAF successfully destroyed a Syrian nuclear reactor(confirmed by IAEA in 2011) penetrating Syrian air defense without loss.

A couple of days ago the IAF appears to have lob tossed weapons over the Med successfully destroying upgraded Syrian aid defense systems.

In the 40 years since the Yom Kippur War the qualitative and quantitative edge the Israelis have over Syria in conventional combined arms warfighting has accelerated.

Israel has little to fear from Syria in terms of Syria's ability to fight a conventional war, and that includes air defense capability. The fairly small number of modern Russian air defense systems will present a challenge to the IAF, but not an insurmountable one.

The IAF is at the bleeding edge of SEAD(Suppression of Enemy Air Defense) and Russian systems are designed to be interlocked and mutually supported......the lack of which would make it easier for Israel to relentlessly chip away at the edges of the network and exploit individual system weaknesses lacking mutual support.

What Israel has to worry about is asymmetric threats that exploit Israel's military, political, and economic vulnerabilities....which has not, and likely will not, consist of conventional warfare vulnerabilities from historical opponents such as Syria.

Poverty, demographics, and failed states on it's periphery are just some of the things that Israel needs to worry about.

[lakedaemonian]

Re: Israel Working With Saudis On Iran Strike Plan

Evidently the Saudis no longer trust the U.S. for their security:

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/...cle1341561.ece

Two old foes unite against Tehran

Convinced that Iran is tricking the world over nuclear weapons, Israel and Saudi Arabia may work together to curb its ambitionsUzi Mahnaimi, Tel Aviv Published: 17 November 2013Comment (19) PrintNetanyahu and King Abdullah have a common interest in a possible air attack on IranNetanyahu and King Abdullah have a common interest in a possible air attack on Iran (NIR BEN-YOSEF/AFP/AVI OHAYON)ONCE they were sworn enemies. Now Israel’s Mossad intelligence agency is working with Saudi officials on contingency plans for a possible attack on Iran if its nuclear programme is not significantly curbed in a deal that could be signed in Geneva this week.Both the Israeli and Saudi governments are convinced that the international talks to place limits on Tehran’s military nuclear development amount to appeasement and will do little to slow its development of a nuclear warhead.As part of the growing co-operation, Riyadh is understood already to have given the go-ahead for Israeli planes to use its airspace in the event of an attack on Iran.Both sides are now prepared to go much further. The Sunni kingdom is as alarmed as Israel by the nuclear ambitions of the Shi’ite-dominated Iran.

It's kind of "lion and the lamb will lie down together" bible kind of stuff

To me it's an indicator of both Saudi/Israeli frustration at both US regional disengagement and unwillingness to solve Saudi/Israeli problems.

If Israel were to attack Iran with the quiet support of the Saudi regime, surely there would be blowback from millions of high speed internet connected urban Saudis.

I wonder how much the Saudi regime would have to pay to keep the natives from getting restless over the Zionists "flying over Mecca"?

[flintlock]

Re: Israel Working With Saudis On Iran Strike Plan

You think they would have learnt something from 1973......Isreal lost 250+ planes, know with in the IAF as the Great Sam Mass-a-ka. Without US help to surpress Iran/Russian state of the Air Sams the IAF will simply get blown out of the sky.

The last time Israel tried to attack over their bonders was in the Leboron, look what happened...they got their arses handed to them!

This is BULSH1T
Israel wants a pay out from US for "being good" & Saud are just pissed at getting beat in Syria.

Mike

check your facts Mike.

[lektrode]

Re: Israel Working With Saudis On Iran Strike Plan

....wonder how much the Saudi regime would have to pay to keep the natives from getting restless over the Zionists "flying over Mecca"?

uh huh...

[GRG55]

Re: Israel Working With Saudis On Iran Strike Plan

You think they would have learnt something from 1973......Isreal lost 250+ planes, know with in the IAF as the Great Sam Mass-a-ka. Without US help to surpress Iran/Russian state of the Air Sams the IAF will simply get blown out of the sky.

The last time Israel tried to attack over their bonders was in the Leboron, look what happened...they got their arses handed to them!

This is BULSH1T
Israel wants a pay out from US for "being good" & Saud are just pissed at getting beat in Syria.

Mike

Spend any time in the Arab Gulf Mike?

The Israeli's are military advisers to most of those regimes. In some cases, like the Gulf State of Qatar, openly so. This is nothing new.

There's a number of reasons they are sought after military advisors. One of my brothers is a former McDonnell Douglas CF-18 fighter pilot, and a former fighter lead-in instructor for the Canadian Air Force. He always said the Israeli pilots are the best trained military pilots in the world. That's one of the reasons...

[lakedaemonian]

Re: Israel Working With Saudis On Iran Strike Plan

Spend any time in the Arab Gulf Mike?

The Israeli's are military advisers to most of those regimes. In some cases, like the Gulf State of Qatar, openly so. This is nothing new.

There's a number of reasons they are sought after military advisors. One of my brothers is a former McDonnell Douglas CF-18 fighter pilot, and a former fighter lead-in instructor for the Canadian Air Force. He always said the Israeli pilots are the best trained military pilots in the world. That's one of the reasons...

What's even cmore bizarre is how closely the Israelis worked with the Iranians(under the Shah) as well as SINCE the Shah.

[Mega]

Re: Israel Working With Saudis On Iran Strike Plan

No Victor, No Vanquished covers the issue of Israeli losses in some detail. Low-side claims range at about 98 to 115 (about the highest estimate offered by Israeli sources). American intelligence estimates stated about 180 aircraft lost, and Russian intelligence believed around 280. Arab sources have claimed that Israel possessed over 100 more aircraft in reserve at the start of the war than was admitted.

[flintlock]

Re: Israel Working With Saudis On Iran Strike Plan

What's even cmore bizarre is how closely the Israelis worked with the Iranians(under the Shah) as well as SINCE the Shah.

I had no idea Israelis were working with any Muslim states! But I did know they didn't necessarily get "massacred" the air war in 73. Sure they took losses. They only managed to fend off two much larger countries on their border, while inflicting 4x the casualties. Notice Mike left out the 67 war. Now that was a massacre. Also know the Japanese did NOT win WWII and the South lost the Civil War, no matter how much some wish it were otherwise.

[Woodsman]

Re: Israel Working With Saudis On Iran Strike Plan

What's even cmore bizarre is how closely the Israelis worked with the Iranians(under the Shah) as well as SINCE the Shah.

David's Lament

everybody keeps flipping
sides it's fun and games

there's more
to this than you
could dream

but who pulls
whose chain

who knows
oh what a deadly web
we weave

when we practice
to deceive

this is too
big for you
you know

that it's a
mystery wrapped

in a riddle
inside an
enigma

[Woodsman]

Re: Israel Working With Saudis On Iran Strike Plan

Also know the Japanese did NOT win WWII and the South lost the Civil War, no matter how much some wish it were otherwise.

Depends on how you define win. With the exception of a few major war criminals, largely the same Japanese elites who were in place on December 7th 1941 were in place on December 7th 1946. This includes known war criminals like Tsuji Masanobu, Nobusuke Kishi, Yoshio Kodama and Ryoichi Sasakawa, who were never subject to justice. The Emperor, all members of the imperial family implicated in the war such as the infamous Prince Chichibu, Prince Yasuhiko Asaka, Prince Fushimi Hiroyasu, Prince Naruhiko Higashikuni and Prince Takeda, and all members of infamous biological warfare research Unit 731—including its director Dr. Shirō Ishii—were granted immunity from criminal prosecution by General MacArthur.

Why? The Cold War and anticommunism trumped war crimes, apparently. Historian John W. Dower sums it up:

In retrospect, apart from the military officer corps, the purge of alleged militarists and ultranationalists that was conducted under the Occupation had relatively small impact on the long-term composition of men of influence in the public and private sectors. The purge initially brought new blood into the political parties, but this was offset by the return of huge numbers of formally purged conservative politicians to national as well as local politics in the early 1950s. In the bureaucracy, the purge was negligible from the outset.... In the economic sector, the purge similarly was only mildly disruptive, affecting less than sixteen hundred individuals spread among some four hundred companies. Everywhere one looks, the corridors of power in postwar Japan are crowded with men whose talents had already been recognized during the war years, and who found the same talents highly prized in the "new" Japan.

John W. Dower, "Cultures of War" (2011).

Keeping the prewar Imperial leadership intact followed by billions of American largess. How is that a loss? And how curious that this rhymes with Reconstruction.

[flintlock]

Re: Israel Working With Saudis On Iran Strike Plan

Depends on how you define win. With the exception of a few major war criminals, largely the same Japanese elites who were in place on December 7th 1941 were in place on December 7th 1946. This includes known war criminals like Tsuji Masanobu, Nobusuke Kishi, Yoshio Kodama and Ryoichi Sasakawa, who were never subject to justice. The Emperor, all members of the imperial family implicated in the war such as the infamous Prince Chichibu, Prince Yasuhiko Asaka, Prince Fushimi Hiroyasu, Prince Naruhiko Higashikuni and Prince Takeda, and all members of infamous biological warfare research Unit 731—including its director Dr. Shirō Ishii—were granted immunity from criminal prosecution by General MacArthur.

Why? The Cold War and anticommunism trumped war crimes, apparently. Historian John W. Dower sums it up:



Keeping the prewar Imperial leadership intact followed by billions of American largess. How is that a loss? And how curious that this rhymes with Reconstruction.

I get your point, but I was taking about winning as in not having all your major cities leveled and 3 million dead.

It is amazing to realize how quickly man is ready to forgive and forget when it suits his needs.

[don]

Re: Israel Working With Saudis On Iran Strike Plan

It's all about class baby - check out the Krupp family following WW2, not to mention compensation for bombed factories in Germany. It's a global fraternity that occasionally fights each other with their proles . . .

[Woodsman]

Re: Israel Working With Saudis On Iran Strike Plan

I get your point, but I was taking about winning as in not having all your major cities leveled and 3 million dead.

Yeah, that left a mark. I wonder, did Japanese children in 50s have nightmares featuring Curtis LeMay? I still do.

It is amazing to realize how quickly man is ready to forgive and forget when it suits his needs.

But we're all friends now and they get to rearm and revive Bushido (as if it ever died). Think the 21st Century will be as bloody as the 20th?