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Bill Gross weighs in on the central question of our time

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  • Bill Gross weighs in on the central question of our time

    Worth a read. To see the whole thing with embedded graphs, go to the original article here. I suggest you do.

    Scrooge McDucks
    November 2013
    William H. Gross
    With the budget and debt ceiling crises temporarily averted, perhaps a future economic priority will be to promote economic growth; one way to do that may be via tax reform. How to proceed depends as always on the view of the observer and whether the glasses are worn by capital, labor or government interests.

    Having benefited enormously via the leveraging of capital since the beginning of my career and having shared a decreasing percentage of my income thanks to Presidents Reagan and Bush 43 via lower government taxes, I now find my intellectual leanings shifting to the plight of labor. I often tell my wife Sue it’s probably a Kennedy-esque type of phenomenon. Having gotten rich at the expense of labor, the guilt sets in and I begin to feel sorry for the less well-off, writing very public Investment Outlooks that “dis” the success that provided me the soapbox in the first place. If your immediate reaction is to nod up and down, then give yourself some points in this intellectual tête-à-tête.

    Still, I would ask the Scrooge McDucks of the world who so vehemently criticize what they consider to be counterproductive, even crippling taxation of the wealthy in the midst of historically high corporate profits and personal income, to consider this: Instead of approaching the tax reform argument from the standpoint of what an enormouspercentage of the overall income taxes the top 1% pay, consider how much of the national income you’ve been privileged to make. In the United States, the share of total pre-tax income accruing to the top 1% has more than doubled from 10% in the 1970s to 20% today. Admit that you, and I and others in the magnificent “1%” grew up in a gilded age of credit, where those who borrowed money or charged fees on expanding financial assets had a much better chance of making it to the big tent than those who used their hands for a living.

    Yes I know many of you money people worked hard as did I, and you survived and prospered where others did not. A fair economic system should always allow for an opportunity to succeed. Congratulations. Smoke that cigar, enjoy that Chateau Lafite 1989. But (mostly you guys) acknowledge your good fortune at having been born in the ‘40s, ‘50s or ‘60s, entering the male-dominated workforce 25 years later, and having had the privilege of riding a credit wave and a credit boom for the past three decades. You did not, as President Obama averred, “build that,” you did not create that wave. You rode it. And now it’s time to kick out and share some of your good fortune by paying higher taxes or reforming them to favor economic growth and labor, as opposed to corporate profits and individual gazillions. You’ll still be able to attend those charity galas and demonstrate your benevolence and philanthropic character to your admiring public. You’ll just have to write a little bit smaller check. Scrooge McDuck would complain but then he’s swimming in it, and can afford to duck paddle to a shallower end for a while.

    If you’re in the privileged 1%, you should be paddling right alongside and willing to support higher taxes on carried interest, and certainly
    capital gains readjusted to existing marginal income tax rates. Stanley Druckenmiller and Warren Buffett have recently advocated similar proposals. The era of taxing “capital” at lower rates than “labor” should now end.

    There was a time in Pimcoland long, long ago; so long ago that it now seems like a fairytale – except it wasn’t. I had criticized a large Fortune 500 company about its balance sheet and use of commercial paper. It wasn’t really meant to be company-specific but more indicative of the growing amount of leverage that our credit system was accommodating. The company took it personally. Sorry about that. I mention it now in the age of the golden Scrooge McDuck because another large company – I shall name it Company X to be safe – is again representative of an excess that may haunt America’s future. X is a well-known corporation that, to put it simply, has grown earnings and earnings per share accompanied by nearly flatline revenues. This troubling trend began nearly a decade ago – sales having increased by only 9% since 2003 – barely a percentage point a year. Its most recent quarter in 2013, as a matter of fact, showed no improvement, with revenues actually declining by 1% instead of moving up.

    Profits, however, increased because the company cut expenses along the way. Earnings per share (EPS) did even better, because X used some of its cash flow to buy back stock instead of reinvesting much of it in new plant and equipment. What struck me was not this unmasking of company X’s secret sauce to elevate its stock price, but the similarity of this corporation to the plight of the broader U.S. and even global economy. Never have American companies sent a greater share of their sales to the bottom line. Even when S&P 500 companies have witnessed a decline in corporate earnings, as shown in Chart 1, they have still experienced EPS gains. X and many companies in the S&P 500 are remarkably similar.

    The U.S. economy and Company X are lookalikes as well, perhaps even twins. Revenue growth in the U.S., for instance, can best be shown by national income or its proxy, more commonly known as nominal GDP. While our annualized nominal GDP growth rate has been a tad better than the 1% that Corporation X has shown over the past 10 years, our five year moving average has slowed from nearly 7% to just above 3% in recent years and struggled to do just that, as shown in Chart 2. “Expenses” have been cut significantly as the share of wages to GDP has declined from 47% to 43% during the past decade. Before-tax profits as a percentage of GDP on the other hand have increased from 10% to 14% over the same period, mimicking what has happened with Company X.

    And here’s a rather incredible kicker to this theoretical comparison. The U.S. economy – thanks to the Fed – has been operating a
    1 trillion dollar share buyback program nearly every year since late 2008, buying Treasuries but watching much of that money flow straight into risk assets and common stocks instead of productive plant and equipment.My goodness! If X can’t grow revenues any more, if X company’s stock has only gone up because of expense cutting and stock buybacks, what does that say about the U.S. or many other global economies? Has our prosperity been based on money printing, credit expansion and cost cutting, instead of honest-to-goodness investment in the real economy?


    The simple answer is that long-term growth for each company, and for all countries, depends not on balance sheet alchemy and financial wizardry, but investment and the ultimate demand for a company or a country’s “products.” In the U.S. we have had little of that, watching our investment (ex housing) as a percentage of GDP decline from 14.6% to 12.2% over the past 13 years. Similarly, our net national savings rate (total savings after depreciation) has sunk below ground zero over the past few years before rebounding recently, as shown in Chart 3. Without savings there can be no investment. Without investment there can be little growth.

    President Obama just this past week finally sounded a faint alarm, mounting a campaign to bolster foreign investment in the U.S. – amidst evidence like that presented in Chart 3 that the U.S. is falling far behind less developed nations such as Mexico in the race for investment and future productivity. “It’s time for folks to…focus on doing everything we can to spur growth and create new, high-quality jobs,” he said last Friday. Folks? Ordinary folks, the 99%, don’t have money anymore, Mr. President. The rich 1% and corporations do. Perhaps your Administration could focus some attention these next few weeks and months on an effort to engage foreign investors, corporate America and the 1% in investing in the U.S. If there’s not a profitable new “iGIZMO” or a dynamic biotechnological breakthrough worthy of investment, how about simply a joint effort between government and private enterprise in an infrastructure bank where our third world airports, third world city streets and third world water systems are modernized?

    And back to my original point. Developed economies work best when inequality of incomes are at a minimum. Right now, the U.S. ranks 16th on a Gini coefficient for developed countries, barely ahead of Spain and Greece. By reducing the 20% of national income that “golden scrooges” now earn, by implementing more equitable tax reform that equalizes capital gains, carried interest and nominal income tax rates, we might move up the list to challenge more productive economies such as Germany and Canada.

    Our problems are significant, Mr. President, and “Obamacare” and the signing up for it is far down the list of what we need to correct in order to move in the direction of “old normal” growth rates. Surely a few astute observers in Congress know that as well. Until we can more equitably balance “Scrooge McDuck” tax rates to rebalance wealth and “GINI coefficients,” while at the same time focusing on investment in the real as opposed to the financial economy, then the prospects for markets – whatever the asset class – are anything but “golden.”

    Scrooge McDucks Speed Read
    1) Growth depends on investment and investment in part depends on an equitable rebalancing of personal income taxes, capital gains and carried interest.
    2) The era of taxing “capital” at lower rates than “labor” should end.
    3) Investors in the U.S. and elsewhere must look for investment in the real economy, not share buy-back maneuvers that artificially elevate stock prices.

    William H. Gross
    Managing Director

  • #2
    Re: Bill Gross weighs in on the central question of our time

    I've never understood why there is so little discussion of making the capital gains tax progressive. It is slightly progressive based on total income, but the progression stops pretty quickly and at a very low rate.

    And I'm not thinking of making it progressive over a single tax year, but over a decade at least. Then you could pretty much end the debate about estate taxes.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Bill Gross weighs in on the central question of our time

      Originally posted by dcarrigg View Post
      No doubt the “less well off” are so very thankful to have this “Kennedy-esque” friend in high places.

      Perhaps he is genuinely attempting to make a difference but I can’t help but think it sounds like any number of political speeches over the years.

      No disrespect meant to you dcarrigg as my opinion is as they say, like elbows…

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Bill Gross weighs in on the central question of our time

        Originally posted by dcarrigg View Post
        1) Growth depends on investment and investment in part depends on an equitable rebalancing of personal income taxes, capital gains and carried interest.


        No, growth depends on creativity and production. We hope that investment can recognize and amplify. No wonder we have a stupid economy. Even sharp guys like Gross are in "lingo" land.

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        • #5
          Re: Bill Gross weighs in on the central question of our time

          Originally posted by dcarrigg View Post
          dcarrigg,

          My response was unfair to you and I apologize for the flippant tone.

          My reaction to the PIMCO letter from Bill Gross reflects my frustration at the fact that I rarely am able to follow conversations on politics. I literally don’t understand what is being discussed in just about all cases. In my way of thinking, the absence of an initial upfront acknowledgement of context makes me doubt the motivations of politically oriented commentary. In fairness to you and Bill Gross, I don’t know what his context is, so shouldn’t judge his letter.

          I will say that I would take him more seriously if he were of limited means and trying to work his way in the system as it currently exists, all the while still making public comments to people in power that risk alienating him from mainstream influence. This is clearly not his situation and this fact makes the cynic in me suggest he is shaping his legacy as much if not more than attempting to inform for altruistic reasons. Many years ago, I was a fan of John McCain because of his McCain Feingold efforts. He was even already on the inside and look how that turned out. I suspect Gross knows how things work and don’t work.

          By the way, I don’t feel that he or anyone “owes” me or the country anything. He used his talent and smarts to build a business and make a fortune. God bless him. If he chooses to try and make a positive difference, both for the country and his legacy, god bless him again. Everyone makes his/her own choices.

          Sorry again dcarrigg for the one off response to your post.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Bill Gross weighs in on the central question of our time

            Bill Gross has a long history of selling his book, including misdirection jujitsu, etc. If it's good for PIMCO, and happens to be good for you, then Bill's okay, at least at that moment in time.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Bill Gross weighs in on the central question of our time

              Originally posted by Thailandnotes View Post
              I've never understood why there is so little discussion of making the capital gains tax progressive. It is slightly progressive based on total income, but the progression stops pretty quickly and at a very low rate.

              And I'm not thinking of making it progressive over a single tax year, but over a decade at least. Then you could pretty much end the debate about estate taxes.
              I don't have a problem with short term capital gains being taxed as regular income at the same graduated rate.

              What gets me riled up is the whole lie behind "capital gains". Keeping up with inflation is NOT a capital gain. If I keep a house for 30 years, nearly all of the "gain" on sale is really just the illusion of inflation. If you tax me on inflation by calling it a gain, it's fraud, plain and simple.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Bill Gross weighs in on the central question of our time

                Pacific Investment Management Co., the world’s largest fixed-income manager, had $39 billion in net redemptions during the third quarter.
                The Bond King, crowned during the Great Bond Bull Market, may be sorely tested if there are any actual reductions in QE. The above was triggered by the taper caper.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Bill Gross weighs in on the central question of our time

                  +1

                  You have to index for inflation.

                  It's not a question of rewards for taking risks that help the economy; it's the avoidance of punishing risk takers.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Bill Gross weighs in on the central question of our time

                    Originally posted by LorenS View Post
                    I don't have a problem with short term capital gains being taxed as regular income at the same graduated rate.

                    What gets me riled up is the whole lie behind "capital gains". Keeping up with inflation is NOT a capital gain. If I keep a house for 30 years, nearly all of the "gain" on sale is really just the illusion of inflation. If you tax me on inflation by calling it a gain, it's fraud, plain and simple.
                    Agreed. In fact, I'm in that exact situation. Bought a house in '91 for 179,000 and when we put it on the market, it will probably sell for 329,000.

                    According to the http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/ I will have made about 22,000 2013 dollars, but will owe tax on 329,000 - 179,000 (minus improvements.)

                    Of course, I could just go back there and live in the house for two years and owe no capital gains, but health insurance would cost 20,000 vs the 2,000 we pay in Thailand.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Bill Gross weighs in on the central question of our time

                      No need to apologize. There's an age old question of how politics works. Maybe it is some fair pluralist game where interest groups compete. I get the feeling that this is changing in our new unlimited money world where more and more comes not from the parties, but from dark money groups pushing agendas and bankrolling candidates. So I think it might be worth paying attention to what elites (by this, I mean the richest folks around) are saying publicly. It sort of harkens back to Sovietology. The process is completely opaque, so there's no way to do causal process tracking. So all you can do is read the tea leaves. Will Gross ever put his money where his mouth (err, keyboard?) is on this one? Who knows. Does anyone among the top 500 wealth-holders have immense power to affect politics, moreso now than any time in the last hundred years or so? Probably. That said, Don could be right, and it could all be much ado about nothing.

                      Yet, I don't think so. Just look at the first few. Gates and Buffet and Ellison seem to make their views known, but don't play the political game as heavy as they could (or at least are good at hiding it). Then comes the brothers Koch, who are well known commodities and play the game hard. Then a laundry list of Waltons who push for specific agendas (anti-minimum/labor and charter schools). Then there's Bloomberg. No party wants him, but he picks his agendas and runs with them hard. Then Adleson who seems to want to be a kingmaker. Page and Brin who seem to go left, but don't play the game as hard as they might. Then there's the litter of Mars kids who generally fund social conservative causes. Soros spearheaded moveon.org and a bunch of other lefty things. Ballmer and Allen split the middle and pay off both sides.

                      But these people run much of the show now. So I figure it's worth paying attention. Forbes dropped Gross in on it's top 50 most powerful people list. The list is somewhat subjective. But when he speaks, for better or for worse, people listen.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Bill Gross weighs in on the central question of our time

                        We can argue for corporate reform and tax abatement, even abolishment of income taxes and a national sales tax instead. Some speak for corporate ownership sharing with employees, and a case can be make for obligations to balance the advantages of incorporation. The key to wealth equality is ownership equality; the broader the base of capital ownership, the broader the base of wealth. Constitutional amendments have been proposed to weaken the power of corporations, and to simplify and restructure the basis of tax collection. But the political power to bring about any of these reforms is lacking. To be honest, we must admit that even with the best will and best scholarship, unintended and unforeseen consequences cloud our vision and weaken our resolve.

                        We are like Hamlet, caught between fates with no clear path even if we can decide. For your amusement or scorn, with heart-felt apologies to the immortal Bard, I here present the following shameless 'comedy of errors.'

                        To tax, or not to tax, that is the question:
                        Whether 'tis more efficient to reform
                        The rules and regulations of outrageous Law,
                        Or to make PACs against a Sea of inequities,
                        And by Amendments to end them: to repeal; to enact
                        No more; and by a repeal, to say we end
                        The Distortion, ten thousand Unnatural spites
                        That Trade is heir to? 'Tis a Resolution
                        Profoundly to be wished. To repeal, to remove,
                        to remove, perchance to Renew; Aye, there's the rub,
                        For in that renewal, what schemes may come,
                        When we have tapered off this FIRE'ed spoil,
                        Must give us pause. There's the respect
                        That fears Ruin and Theft of so much wealth:
                        For who would bear the toils and trials of trade,
                        The Bureaucrat's rules, the competitor's lies,
                        The fines and fees of the lawless, greedy State,
                        The insolent envy of Office, and losses
                        That gracious merit of the unskilled takes,
                        When he himself might his retirement make
                        With a simple Sale? Who would long hours bear,
                        To strain and sweat under a weary life,
                        But that the hope of profit after taxes,
                        The undiscovered Country, from whose bounty
                        With a sure guide no Traveller returns,
                        And makes us rather bear those laws we have,
                        Than fly to others that we know not of.
                        Thus Uncertainty does make Cowards of us all,
                        And thus the Eager march of Industry
                        Is stifled by, with burdens of future fear,
                        And enterprises of great worth and export,
                        With this concern their Focus turn awry,
                        And lose the time for Action. Help you now,
                        O Central Bank? Fed Reserve, in thy Fiat
                        Be all our debts remembered.
                        Last edited by photon555; November 13, 2013, 09:43 PM. Reason: restore formatting
                        "I love a dog, he does nothing for political reasons." --Will Rogers

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Bill Gross weighs in on the central question of our time

                          As Bernanke's term draws to a close, and we prepare to follow Yellen's leadership to unmatched feats of fiat magic, I thought that I would repeat this little ditty that I wrote last year, I think, in honor of his firm resolve to limit QE to only $85 billion a month.

                          Who is this bearded money man
                          All gold and silver he would ban
                          He cut interest rates down
                          Right into the ground
                          Now all savers are looking wan

                          Why worry about tax policy when we can print all the money we need?

                          Is the following a singular nationalist hothead or a trial balloon?

                          http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...dollar-russia/

                          Russian lawmaker wants to outlaw U.S. dollar, calls it a Ponzi scheme

                          "I love a dog, he does nothing for political reasons." --Will Rogers

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Bill Gross weighs in on the central question of our time

                            Originally posted by photon555 View Post
                            Why worry about tax policy when we can print all the money we need?

                            Is the following a singular nationalist hothead or a trial balloon?

                            http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...dollar-russia/

                            Russian lawmaker wants to outlaw U.S. dollar, calls it a Ponzi scheme
                            From the article:

                            "The American financial system, despite all its existing problems, remains the most stable and low-risk in the world," said financial analyst Andrei Shenk.
                            True. And therefor the saddest commentary that I've read in a long time.

                            Love your little ditties, BTW.

                            Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Bill Gross weighs in on the central question of our time

                              Originally posted by LorenS View Post
                              I don't have a problem with short term capital gains being taxed as regular income at the same graduated rate.

                              What gets me riled up is the whole lie behind "capital gains". Keeping up with inflation is NOT a capital gain. If I keep a house for 30 years, nearly all of the "gain" on sale is really just the illusion of inflation. If you tax me on inflation by calling it a gain, it's fraud, plain and simple.
                              That is one way of looking at things. And, tbh, one that I think holds a lot of water.

                              BUT there is another point along those lines and it is this: Housing in a sane environment would not be something that should appreciate all that much in the first place. It is a depreciating commodity, it goes out of style and needs constant upkeep. For most of our history it was something that barely kept up with inflation in the first place.

                              Housing aside (and here is where the populist in my comes to the fore) I have a very real problem with a system that rewards investment in a much greater way than labor. Sorry but to me this is just plain unfair. We like to talk a good game about rewarding "hard work" but in almost every way imaginable we rig the system to where those who actually do the hard work pay a much higher percentage of their labor to taxes than those who simply buy investments.

                              It especially gets my blood boiling when the "investment" is nothing more than fever dreams of financial gimmickry or carried interest of pension raiders and the like. To my way of thinking my local mechanic makes a much greater contribution to the greater good of society than these vultures ever could. Plus he can actually do whatever repair work I don't have time for without giving me a double serving of self righteousness and narcissism.

                              Will

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