Taibbi Strikes Again

[c1ue]

Re: Taibbi Strikes Again & Again

Imagine you or your kid working hard for a decade doing everything right, then someone comes and gives you a choice.

I am sympathetic, but only to a point.

For those of us who were in the private sector - there wasn't even a choice.

[Woodsman]

Re: Taibbi Strikes Again & Again

What would you do?

I don't know what I would do, but I imagine many otherwise decent people feel the tingle of schadenfreude at hearing the news.

You are correct that "the majority of people at this site cheer and froth at the mouth whenever public workers are punished." Now I suppose I get that about elite level political appointees, but the mass of people seem to be incapable of nuance or distinction when it comes to this. A fireman or teacher is the same as an SES or GS15 super bureaucrat in their eyes. It's dumb and plays right into the hands of the reptiles that rule us. The propaganda is holding the line quite well, it seems.

Teachers, cops and firemen are not the cause of our budget problems. There's a trillion dollars out there we might consider first, but we don't do that.

Divide and rule, folks. That's all it is.

[don]

Re: Taibbi Strikes Again & Again

It's dumb and plays right into the hands of the reptiles that rule us.

+1

while providing terrific cover for FIRE's rape and pillage of pensions of all stripes . . .

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: Taibbi Strikes Again

I have the same problem. Apparently melatonin pills are the answer.

Or good Scotch...

The pessimist see's danger in every opportunity and the optimist see's opportunity in every danger....

Sell down to the sleeping point.

[vinoveri]

Re: Taibbi Strikes Again & Again

All-in-all it's just another step towards destroying the middle class for the benefit of a few. I know that probably the majority of people at this site cheer and froth at the mouth whenever public workers are punished. For those of you who have not yet chosen sides in the great engineered war of one half of the poor vs. the other half, I'd like you to imagine something:

I appreciate this point. It is indeed the haves vs the have nots, however what has become obvious to all is that the government is a giant feeding trough, and while I concede that the upper .1% receive more benefits generally (via monetary policy (closer to the creation of the money), tax policy, reg capture, etc), multiple wrongs, and just b/c everybody's doing it don't make it right (and more importantly b/c it is not sustainable). So I may sympathize in principle with the smaller fry who gets pushed off the gov teat b/c a bigger more well-connected player pulls the strings and wants their cut first, that hardly is going to incentivize me to carry the torch for the "poor public workers" when so many others are destitute, despairing, and have no clue how to sign up for a sucking position and are not shrewd enough to get a stream of benefits flowing their way. We are one giant entitlement society. We should just send a $100k to every of the ~150 million households in the county. That's only $15T after all; what's the big deal? (sarcasm is OFF)

[Woodsman]

Re: Taibbi Strikes Again & Again

No torches or sympathy necessary; just a rational, non-ideologically driven view of which actors have agency which don't.

[vinoveri]

Re: Taibbi Strikes Again & Again

No torches or sympathy necessary; just a rational, non-ideologically driven view of which actors have agency which don't.

ah, and we are back to first principles again. If by "agency" you mean "representation or influence", then I hope we can agree that there is a vast disparity of such across demographics and social classes, however I maintain that human nature as it is, results in most seeking their own self-interest irrespective and mostly unawares of the consequences (especially if they are only financial) to the larger society and their "neighbors" across town or country; the society is being looted from the top, yes, so I have no problem with folks complaining and trying to get their "just desserts" (although may disagree on the subjective valuation of those), but I don't believe justice and fairness should be based on the "squeaky wheel" i.e., policy should not be made by who whines the most and justice should be both blind AND deaf. Why should one need an agent to get their "fair share" of the public wealth?

[Woodsman]

Re: Taibbi Strikes Again & Again

By agency, I mean the ability to act in a manner that results a in desired outcome. By actors, I mean the individuals expressing said agency. And, yes, we agree that different cohorts have differing abilities and that interest seeking is "natural." We agree that society is being looted from the top. And we agree that justice and fairness, while not based on who complains loudest, often requires those who want for justice to cry out.

As for why anyone needs an "agent" (here meaning representative), it is because as you said the disparities between classes and demographics. Kennedy quoting Truman said it best, I think:

"Harry Truman once said, 'There are 14 or 15 million Americans who have the resources to have representatives in Washington to protect their interests, and that the interests of the great mass of the other people - the 150 or 160 million - is the responsibility of the president of the United States, and I propose to fulfill it.'"
--"Address in Atlantic City at the Convention of the United Auto Workers (174)" May 8, 1962, Public Papers of the Presidents: John F. Kennedy, 1962.

[c1ue]

Re: Taibbi Strikes Again & Again

As for why anyone needs an "agent" (here meaning representative), it is because as you said the disparities between classes and demographics. Kennedy quoting Truman said it best, I think:

"Harry Truman once said, 'There are 14 or 15 million Americans who have the resources to have representatives in Washington to protect their interests, and that the interests of the great mass of the other people - the 150 or 160 million - is the responsibility of the president of the United States, and I propose to fulfill it.'"
--"Address in Atlantic City at the Convention of the United Auto Workers (174)" May 8, 1962, Public Papers of the Presidents: John F. Kennedy, 1962.

The problem is that this agency can manifest itself in so many negative ways.

Clinton polling housewives to see if the US should bomb Serbs, for example.

Ultimately it all boils down to the agents:

Are they self-critical?

Do they have the vision, the integrity, and the will to perceive and carry out that which promotes the common good?

It seems pretty clear that the sorry lot we have now, don't.

[Woodsman]

Re: Taibbi Strikes Again & Again

The problem is that this agency can manifest itself in so many negative ways....It seems pretty clear that the sorry lot we have now, don't.

No argument.