Gold-plated HYPOCRISY: beltway style

[LorenS]

Re: Gold-plated HYPOCRISY: beltway style

Diane Degette was complaining about "price gouging" for gasoline the same year my property taxes went up 40%. Gas prices dropped soon thereafter due to market forces, my property taxes did not. Who was gouging?

Later Diane Degette was commenting on standard capacity magazines for firearms. She was blissfully (I must assume) ignorant on the subject.

That doesn't mean she has no worthwhile opinions, in fact, I think, once, with regard to consumer debt problems she actually had a relevant thought.


This, however, is one of the folks who thinks Obamacare is such a great idea (although, again she was most likely blissfully ignorant on what she was actually advocating for).
http://wpc.2a95.edgecastcdn.net/002A...na-DeGette.pdf


I don't see why Mr Bennett should be considered less worthy of consideration than folks like Degette.

[Woodsman]

Re: Gold-plated HYPOCRISY: beltway style

IN HIS DREAMS, maybe.

Bill O'Reilly does not have a hundredth of the intellect and erudition, never mind the sheer unadulterated Machiavellian nerve that WFB possessed. I ignore him too, Lek.

[Woodsman]

Re: Gold-plated HYPOCRISY: beltway style

Vino, the question was asked and I answered it to the best of my ability. I thought I was clear that I considered it a matter of opinion and preference, but anyway it's how I see it. The aborting black babies quip was a cheap shot yet it's on the record. He said it. And it got plenty of press so I'm certain you can find it yourself with little effort.

It would have been a dumb throwaway line in private conversation where you or I might have said to Bill, "sorry what did you say?" to gently let our friend know he's on a limb. But it wasn't that. It was a dumb throwaway line on a national radio show by a national political figure who ought to know better. And then to complain that he was taken out of context seems to me too much for a tough guy like Bennett.

You're damn right it got taken out of context by his enemies. That's how they play the game in that town and Bill's been playing it just as long as anyone. Tell me a guy like Bennett makes it to the inside circle of the neocon salon and he hasn't kicked an opponent or rival while he was down once or twice. So cry me a river friends if I don't share the outrage.


Anyway, Vino I call it a notion because I know Bennett is anti-abortion. I don't believe he really wants to snuff out black babies in-utero. I don't think any of his partisan enemies do either and expect they rationalize it as just part of the contact sport of politics. But for me the context is important and the ease with which he said it is rich with meaning as it provides a glimpse into the Bennett's world view.

People like Bennett believe that while whites commit crimes, blacks and Hispanics are criminal in their DNA. So no, it's not exactly calling for genocide against blacks as some of the more breathless commentators put it. But what can black children do to overcome the uncritical and unconscious notion held by people like Bennett that they are born defective and dangerous?


I can't set aside the fact that it was delivered in perfect seriousness by a man who claims to possess a larger share of moral intelligence and authority than most of us. Bennett considers himself qualified to instruct us on virtue. Yet we must ignore his many less than virtuous acts and statements in order to benefit from the instruction.

It's not my business to tell you how you should rank hypocrisy when estimating someone's character, vino. I get that it's everywhere and I'm particularly keen to avoid hypocrites who insist on pontificating about virtue and morality long after the cat's out of the bag. They make my skin crawl.

[Forrest]

Re: Gold-plated HYPOCRISY: beltway style

I HIS DREAMS, maybe.

Bill O'Reilly does not have a hundredth of the intellect and erudition, never mind the sheer unadulterated Machiavellian nerve that WFB possessed. I ignore him too, Lek.

WFB's vocabulary was without equal. I miss him.

[Woodsman]

Re: Gold-plated HYPOCRISY: beltway style

Lek, while I'm certainly able to separate what Bennett says from how he says it, as I wrote to Vino I think that someone who presents themselves as an authority on virtue should rightly demonstrate those virtues.The more attention they receive for their instruction, the more attention we should give to their practice of it. In doing so we protect virtue against the shortcomings of the teacher. Or something like that .

But really, can you think of a "better" way to say this?

I do know that it’s true that if you wanted to reduce crime, you could — if that were your sole purpose, you could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down.

And what context, I wonder, would we need to discover so that Bill's pearl of wisdom could come across with the clarity that he rightfully intended? The Archie Bunker/George Jefferson "I didn't mean nuthin by it" context maybe?

Me, I understand it in the context that people like Bill think blacks have criminality in their genes. It's a particularly repugnant 19th Century notion that some people can't seem to kick away, this idea that embedded in blackness is some incorrigible deviancy that transcends culture.

I've been exposed to Bennett long enough to understand who and what he is, who and what he represents, and the sort of world he and his confederates are working feverishly to create. He is part of the problem. Yes, Bennett may on occasion get it right and while the general thrust of his argumentation might at times have some merit, in aggregate it is chapter and verse out of the neocon handbook. And theirs is a dangerous and deceptive ideology.

That is why Bennett has no credibility with me and why I rarely listen or read him and the Salem Communications/Heritage Foundation/National Review crowd. That's the reason I ignore (reject, is a better word 'cause I do pay attention) the cloven hooved demon coven of Kirkpatrick, Podhoretz, Kristol, Kagan, Wolfowitz, Feith, Perle and the rest. The same holds for the many organizations and fronts through which they do their nasty business.


Neocon Party Animal

If only the Democrats and so-called "liberals" were any sort of alternative, but they're far worse in my book because their betrayal of the very idea of the Democratic Party and their eager willingness to let conservatives define what liberal and left meant. The hell with them.

But to hear these neocons talk of virtue, good, evil, faith, character, power and America is to my ears like rabbits screaming or Nancy Pelosi laughing. It's nearly unbearable. I believe they have brought us to ruin as a nation and have turned the GOP into a grotesque that would make Richard Nixon turn away in revulsion. You're welcome to try and find the pearls among the manure. Me, I've heard enough.

As for the ACA, I feel a bit more in the way of compassion for the folks who were bamboozled by the Democrats and Obama than what I've heard here and in the world. These people were expecting "free" health care and now some of these poor souls are going to wind up without any health insurance and paying a tax to boot.

I spoke to an friend just yesterday who owns a 60 year old lock and safe business. His uncle started it, handed it to his brother who handed it to his sons. Each of these men took great pride in their ability to provide their employees health benefits at no cost. They considered it an easy way to retain talent and my friend has managed to keep it up in the face of yearly, sometimes double digit increases. But it took the Obama and the ACA to end it.

Without the deductibility of premiums, he's run the numbers and can either take the hit personally or drop coverage. After a nasty divorce, one kid in college and three in private school, there's nothing left to give. So now he has the job of telling a 55 year old man with three kids that the insurance he's carried for decades as a valued employee will be terminated and he must now line up in the exchanges. That should be a job for Obama and Pelosi, if you ask me. And for Boehner when he rolls over and plays dead as he inevitably will. But these guys never have to live with the consequences of their error. Just us.

Lek you recognize what a cruel joke this is, the lies that endlessly stream from the Democrats and Obama and that "they will only focus on stuff that works FOR their team and ignores what doesn't." But in the same way Obama and the Democrats can shaft their most loyal constituency, so too do GOP and the conservative thought leaders shaft their loyal acolytes. And guys like Bennett are pushing on that shaft just as hard as they can.

[Raz]

Re: Gold-plated HYPOCRISY: beltway style

Thank you, Woodsman. Since 1996 I've been saying the very same thing concerning the RepubliCrats.

[vinoveri]

Re: Gold-plated HYPOCRISY: beltway style

Woods, I appreciate the comments and while I do not disagree, I hesitate to attribute the specific beliefs of folks like WB as you've described (simply b/c I have not followed him closely- so you may be right on in fact, I just don't know), although his comment does appear to betray inner prejudices. Ignorance and Want are endemic throughout our society and I would argue growing especially ignorance. The only approaches that have appeared to work historically long-term are speaking truth to power in conjunction with civil disobedience and willingness to put Truth and Justice above any temporal concerns: Socrates, Christ, Ghandi, MLK, are notable examples; of course they were all murdered by the power structure, but they did change the world for good and their influence continues to be felt (as well as corrupted and co-opted for selfish ends).

At the risk of appearing cynical, it almost seems that anyone of significant political power and influence cannot achieve such w/o not only playing the game but becoming absorbed by it to the extent the game of power becomes and end in itself rather than the original ideal that may have motivated the desire for "public service". Is it not better to teach virtue even if one is secretly vicious (hypocrisy notwithstanding)? Becoming wise as a serpent yet innocent as a dove is like walking a high-tension tightrope. I really don't think it is possible to be innocent without love (willing the good) of neighbor, and who of us can honestly say we are that even a majority of the time?

[shiny!]

Re: Gold-plated HYPOCRISY: beltway style

Lek, while I'm certainly able to separate what Bennett says from how he says it, as I wrote to Vino I think that someone who presents themselves as an authority on virtue should rightly demonstrate those virtues.The more attention they receive for their instruction, the more attention we should give to their practice of it. In doing so we protect virtue against the shortcomings of the teacher. Or something like that .

But really, can you think of a "better" way to say this?



And what context, I wonder, would we need to discover so that Bill's pearl of wisdom could come across with the clarity that he rightfully intended? The Archie Bunker/George Jefferson "I didn't mean nuthin by it" context maybe?

Me, I understand it in the context that people like Bill think blacks have criminality in their genes. It's a particularly repugnant 19th Century notion that some people can't seem to kick away, this idea that embedded in blackness is some incorrigible deviancy that transcends culture.

I've been exposed to Bennett long enough to understand who and what he is, who and what he represents, and the sort of world he and his confederates are working feverishly to create. He is part of the problem. Yes, Bennett may on occasion get it right and while the general thrust of his argumentation might at times have some merit, in aggregate it is chapter and verse out of the neocon handbook. And theirs is a dangerous and deceptive ideology.

That is why Bennett has no credibility with me and why I rarely listen or read him and the Salem Communications/Heritage Foundation/National Review crowd. That's the reason I ignore (reject, is a better word 'cause I do pay attention) the cloven hooved demon coven of Kirkpatrick, Podhoretz, Kristol, Kagan, Wolfowitz, Feith, Perle and the rest. The same holds for the many organizations and fronts through which they do their nasty business.


Neocon Party Animal

If only the Democrats and so-called "liberals" were any sort of alternative, but they're far worse in my book because their betrayal of the very idea of the Democratic Party and their eager willingness to let conservatives define what liberal and left meant. The hell with them.

But to hear these neocons talk of virtue, good, evil, faith, character, power and America is to my ears like rabbits screaming or Nancy Pelosi laughing. It's nearly unbearable. I believe they have brought us to ruin as a nation and have turned the GOP into a grotesque that would make Richard Nixon turn away in revulsion. You're welcome to try and find the pearls among the manure. Me, I've heard enough.

As for the ACA, I feel a bit more in the way of compassion for the folks who were bamboozled by the Democrats and Obama than what I've heard here and in the world. These people were expecting "free" health care and now some of these poor souls are going to wind up without any health insurance and paying a tax to boot.

I spoke to an friend just yesterday who owns a 60 year old lock and safe business. His uncle started it, handed it to his brother who handed it to his sons. Each of these men took great pride in their ability to provide their employees health benefits at no cost. They considered it an easy way to retain talent and my friend has managed to keep it up in the face of yearly, sometimes double digit increases. But it took the Obama and the ACA to end it.

Without the deductibility of premiums, he's run the numbers and can either take the hit personally or drop coverage. After a nasty divorce, one kid in college and three in private school, there's nothing left to give. So now he has the job of telling a 55 year old man with three kids that the insurance he's carried for decades as a valued employee will be terminated and he must now line up in the exchanges. That should be a job for Obama and Pelosi, if you ask me. And for Boehner when he rolls over and plays dead as he inevitably will. But these guys never have to live with the consequences of their error. Just us.

Lek you recognize what a cruel joke this is, the lies that endlessly stream from the Democrats and Obama and that "they will only focus on stuff that works FOR their team and ignores what doesn't." But in the same way Obama and the Democrats can shaft their most loyal constituency, so too do GOP and the conservative thought leaders shaft their loyal acolytes. And guys like Bennett are pushing on that shaft just as hard as they can.

This is one of the most thruthful and well-articulated posts to come along in a long while. Thank you, Woodsman.

[shiny!]

Re: Gold-plated HYPOCRISY: beltway style

Woods, I appreciate the comments and while I do not disagree, I hesitate to attribute the specific beliefs of folks like WB as you've described (simply b/c I have not followed him closely- so you may be right on in fact, I just don't know), although his comment does appear to betray inner prejudices. Ignorance and Want are endemic throughout our society and I would argue growing especially ignorance. The only approaches that have appeared to work historically long-term are speaking truth to power in conjunction with civil disobedience and willingness to put Truth and Justice above any temporal concerns: Socrates, Christ, Ghandi, MLK, are notable examples; of course they were all murdered by the power structure, but they did change the world for good and their influence continues to be felt (as well as corrupted and co-opted for selfish ends).

At the risk of appearing cynical, it almost seems that anyone of significant political power and influence cannot achieve such w/o not only playing the game but becoming absorbed by it to the extent the game of power becomes and end in itself rather than the original ideal that may have motivated the desire for "public service". Is it not better to teach virtue even if one is secretly vicious (hypocrisy notwithstanding)? Becoming wise as a serpent yet innocent as a dove is like walking a high-tension tightrope. I really don't think it is possible to be innocent without love (willing the good) of neighbor, and who of us can honestly say we are that even a majority of the time?

This isn't unwarranted cynicism, it is a clear undestanding of the whole, depressing situation. Not "almost seems", but reality. Doesn't matter whom we elect to Congress, by the time they move to DC and take their oath of office they've already sold out. The "game" of left/right Republocrat politics is that of Lucy convincing Charlie Brown that this time she won't pull away the football just before he tries to kick it.

As long as the electorate keeps thinking "my guy is bad, but he's not as bad as those other guys", we'll keep getting screwed..

That's why solutions need to come at the individual, local and neighborhood level. Local governments can have corrupt leaders, but it's easier to storm a city council meeting and force them to do right than to storm Congress and change the status quo. I don't see a bloody revolution in the cards. Bloody riots, perhaps, but not revolution. If the federal system comes down, it will be because it becomes terminally bloated, impotent and irrelevant.

[Woodsman]

Re: Gold-plated HYPOCRISY: beltway style

You nailed it, in my opinion, right here:

The only approaches that have appeared to work historically long-term are speaking truth to power in conjunction with civil disobedience and willingness to put Truth and Justice above any temporal concerns...

It took me decades to really grasp this as reality. And what else is it, but the willingness to climb on the Cross? To love truth and justice really means to love God and the fullest expression of this makes us Christlike. It also guarantees the certainty of our physical destruction should we begin to act in ways this understanding demands. Christ knew it and his Gethsemani experience shows that as a flesh and blood man he rightly feared it. Yet there he is in Golgatha, hanging on the cross. King feared it too and said so many times. But there he is in Memphis, hanging on rough hewn wood.

I don't mean to proselytize or preach and considering the desiccated husk that's left of my faith, it would be ridiculous for me to try. And when I say Christlike, I don't mean to exclude any means by which people of goodwill express their love of justice and truth. I learned as a child that God responds by whatever name you call Him. No rational concept of God I can muster precludes this.

But even if we reject the possibility of what we term as supernatural, a simple reading of history is enough to convince me that what you say is true. The power and efficacy of this love combined with its most genuine political expression - nonviolent civil disobedience - cannot be resisted. Kings and armies fear it more than any weapon because violence can do nothing against it but make it stronger. For what does anyone who achieves this state of grace need fear from any man?

Listen to King's final speech of April 3, 1968 at the Mason Temple - his last public statement before his execution - and understand that this man knows his days on Earth are at their end. Listen to the themes he addresses in this his final sermon:

"And we've got to say to the nation: We know how it's coming out. For when people get caught up with that which is right and they are willing to sacrifice for it, there is no stopping point short of victory."

"God sent us by here, to say to you that you're not treating his children right. And we've come by here to ask you to make the first item on your agenda fair treatment, where God's children are concerned. Now, if you are not prepared to do that, we do have an agenda that we must follow. And our agenda calls for withdrawing economic support from you."

"And then I got to Memphis. And some began to say the threats, or talk about the threats that were out. What would happen to me from some of our sick white brothers? ... Well, I don't know what will happen now. We've got some difficult days ahead. But it doesn't really matter with me now. Because I've been to the mountaintop. I don't mind. Like anybody, I would like to live - a long life; longevity has its place. But I'm not concerned about that now. I just want to do God's will. And He's allowed me to go up to the mountain. And I've looked over. And I've seen the Promised Land. I may not get there with you. But I want you to know tonight, that we, as a people, will get to the Promised Land. So I'm happy, tonight. I'm not worried about anything. I'm not fearing any man. Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord."

We used to call this by a special name. We called it prophesy.

[Penguin]

Re: Gold-plated HYPOCRISY: beltway style

I honestly am SO sick and tired of the freaking "obamacare" hysterics. The law is an abortion and manages to make the reality of healthcare in this nation even worse. The status quo is about as inherently evil of a concoction as a man could be likely to dream up.

A show of hands: Who, like me, at this point is so fed up and exasperated with the entire system that they are willing to blow the whole thing straight to hell and just go with a single payer system.

I'm serious. I'm one of the lucky ones, I have a great healthcare policy. But I just can't believe that this system is the best we can come up with. MOF I am willing to bet you couldn't come up with a program that cost more and left more people out if you actually tried. To hell with it, if this isn't a bona fide market failure then I don't know what is.

Junk it. Blow it up.

Will

[Woodsman]

Re: Gold-plated HYPOCRISY: beltway style

1 vote for single payer and removing payment at point of service HERE!

[Penguin]

Re: Gold-plated HYPOCRISY: beltway style

Hey, there's two of us. :p

It sounds crazy but I honestly don't know how you would even begin to reform health care in the US. I'm not sure it ~can~ be reformed with the fear that coverage loss inspires and the entrenched interests protecting the status quo. It is set up for political sleights of hand and fear mongering.

I seriously think the only way it may be made more equitable is to simply nationalize it and treat it like a utility. Sad, but it may be true.

Will

[vinoveri]

Re: Gold-plated HYPOCRISY: beltway style

Well said, my friend. That speech still knocks me over every time I hear/read it, knowing in retrospect what was about to transpire.

Sounds like your faith is a lot more than a husk by the way.

Apprehending the truth does not directly result in living it, at least for me. I know and want right but cannot do it; I know and don't want evil and still I do it, to paraphrase St. Paul. The lives of the saints and describe long "dark nights of the soul"; as I age I understand Merton's statement that an individual's faith is evidenced by his/her actions day to day. It seems to me its either All In or All Out. Christ is Truth. Better a martyr for truth OR a pagan - "eat drink and be merry for tomorrow you die" than a lukewarm "believer" straddling the fence of sanctity and worldliness. Again, truth is easier to understand than incorporate into one's being. I'll stick with the common wisdom of humanity throughout the ages; God IS, even as Richard Dawkins waxes on implying that MLKing was deluded.

[Raz]

Re: Gold-plated HYPOCRISY: beltway style

God IS, even as Richard Dawkins waxes on implying that MLKing was deluded.

I'd rather be deluded with Martin Luther King than "informed" with Richard Dawkins.