U.S. Car Engine Better Than Germans!

[lektrode]

Re: U.S. Car Engine Better Than Germans!

I want my 1981 Honda Civic, with its Aluminum head, back..... 63 mpg hwy and 51 mpg city, baby. I wish I would have never sold that car.

BRILLIANT discussion here boyz - must say one can learn more about almost any topic imaginable on a couple of these threads, than in weeks of other 'sources'

but after a couple of aluminum-headed units (2ea, peugeots/veedubs, both diesels) - i'll keep my '93chevy cavalier, with its 2L-4banger, with timing CHAIN (vs rubber belt) that still gets 30mpg like clockwork - and i dont even know what its head is cast from - have never had to take off any of the top end stuff - or even change the sparkplugs, at 117k, 50 of which is mine = best $1400 'investment' i've ever - besides the '91 i put over 100k on, paid 1000bux for in y2k and after some idiot made a left in front of me, his ins forking out 1300 for and then sold it for another 300 to some dude who wanted to practice rolling it over in a parking lot...

now _THAT_ is ROI, baybee....

but methinks i'm gonna keep an eye out for one of them LS units - wonder if they'll fit in a sprinter van (the ones without the MB diesels)??

[flintlock]

Re: U.S. Car Engine Better Than Germans!

Yeah this discussion about GM V8s is all over the place. From the 70s to current. Might as well throw the steam engine in there. Regardless of the engine, I know which car I'd rather drive.

[lektrode]

Re: U.S. Car Engine Better Than Germans!

Yeah this discussion about GM V8s is all over the place. From the 70s to current. Might as well throw the steam engine in there. Regardless of the engine, I know which car I'd rather drive.

ok flint - we're waitin on it...

dont tell me yer envy'n my cav???

[jr429]

Re: U.S. Car Engine Better Than Germans!

I do understand what you're saying, but I can't say I necessarily agree.

After all, cost has a lot of factors going into it. Materials cost doesn't change, but technological cost does - the 1000th F15 fighter costs a lot less than the 1st.

The GM vs. Porsche engine overlooks this aspect as well: the R & D cost to develop the LS engine is spread out over likely 10x or more units sold than the Porsche engine. Equally the Japanese engines in the '70s had relatively little R & D cost but were competing with fully depreciated US engines.

True, amortized development costs play a big part in cutting edge technology. But we're not talking about cutting edge tech here the Porsche H6 or GM LS engine is certainly NOT fighter aircraft or a fighter jet turbine. Unlike the technology business where almost all the costs are upfront development costs (think software) the automotive industry relies on incremental improvements. For example high performance GM or Porsche engines are probably similar in design to the early 2000's versions with the exception of some new technology such as new material technology (plasma coatings, new ringland material, etc.), direct engine, intake/exhaust cam or valve variation, drive-by-wire throttle, etc. These are all incremental improvements shared across the industry because they are designed by companies like Borg Warner, Siemens, Denso, Bosch, Delco rather than taken on by the OEM itself. The major cost for most engine components is actually the tooling, with a good engine block & head tooling around a couple million dollars and the internal components typically considerably less. Therefore I believe my point is still valid - engine quality is very closely related to component cost excluding development cost.

[jr429]

Re: U.S. Car Engine Better Than Germans!

I want my 1981 Honda Civic, with its Aluminum head, back..... 63 mpg hwy and 51 mpg city, baby. I wish I would have never sold that car.

If you take the Chevy Spark and rip out all the safety equipment and power accessories you'll probably get pretty close.

[c1ue]

Re: U.S. Car Engine Better Than Germans!

The major cost for most engine components is actually the tooling, with a good engine block & head tooling around a couple million dollars and the internal components typically considerably less.

Is not tooling yet another economy of scale cost?

[flintlock]

Re: U.S. Car Engine Better Than Germans!

ok flint - we're waitin on it...

dont tell me yer envy'n my cav???

As long as its a Z24. What, 150 hp!!