Is Farming the New Black?

[c1ue]

Re: Is Farming the New Black?

1. This is not about liberty. This is about government spending. If you think that taxing workers to pay other peoples' for caramel mocha lattes at Starbucks is a legitimate function of government, then you're entitled to your opinion. Personally, I think it's a waste of taxpayer money. How much simpler can this point be made?

The problem is that you're saying that this is waste when in reality what you're doing is placing a value judgment on how that money should be spent.

Clearly you think that food purchased by Food Stamps must be as distasteful and cheap as possible.

I don't have a problem with your view, but I do have a problem with your desiring to use this view for force a specific behavior for food stamp recipients, or failing that to use this as an excuse to cut payments. $130/month is not a lot of money by anyone's definition - and the eligibility levels for Food Stamps are not high at all.

2. Do you REALLY believe that people are spending their food stamps at Whole Foods and then not eating for 2 weeks?

Given the average levels of food stamp payout per individual, and the costs at Whole Foods, I would say that if people are indeed using their Food Stamps at Whole foods then the inevitable result is insufficient food.

If these people have other income, but choose to spend more of it - including food stamps - at Whole Foods, I still fail to see the problem. Maybe they're living 3 to a single room. Maybe they're living in their car.

Free choice.

3. I didn't support the bailouts at the time and I still don't. This is not an either/or choice. We can stop socializing the losses of private banks AND we can stop paying billions of dollars for people on food stamps to drink soda and develop diabetes. I understand prioritization but it's not like we're deciding which bill to put to a vote first.

Certainly true. Nonetheless I do find it interesting how much Food Stamp waste is featured in the MSM vs. bankster waste - especially given the relative numbers involved.

[don]

Re: Is Farming the New Black?

It's a lot easier to beat up and moralize about someone perceived as defenseless than to those seen as all-powerful

I'm not sure who said that . . . .

[shiny!]

Re: Is Farming the New Black?

Actually, reggie never said the government was spying on us. What he said, was that the entire Internet was nothing but a government created and maintained system of control.

I wasn't attributing all these stories to Reggie. I was trying to point out that there are quite a few stories that people deride as conspiracy theories until data comes to light that proves they were true. Until the truth comes out, the people who claim these outlandish things are marginalized as crazy conspiracy theorists.

If flying saucers ever land on the White House lawn, will the "loonies" who claimed flying saucers were real all along still be considered loonies?

Given how much the government has lied to us about their actions and their motives, I don't see any reason to automatically deride "conspiracy theorists".

[gwynedd1]

Re: Is Farming the New Black?

They are like a sweet tomato. Once sugar is added it is reminiscent of a blue berry pie. Ground cherry is probably the closest in cultivation. However it is a good cross over. I have made pizza sauce with it as well. This year I started making choke cherry salsa which I must say was a "hell yeah" moment. I bet I could make a killer sweet salsa with it. So it has that kind of versatility where is can be nudged in the direction you like. The birds were kind to bring it to me.

The last pie I made with it was with an acorn crust. :-)

[shiny!]

Re: Is Farming the New Black?

They are like a sweet tomato. Once sugar is added it is reminiscent of a blue berry pie. Ground cherry is probably the closest in cultivation. However it is a good cross over. I have made pizza sauce with it as well. This year I started making choke cherry salsa which I must say was a "hell yeah" moment. I bet I could make a killer sweet salsa with it. So it has that kind of versatility where is can be nudged in the direction you like. The birds were kind to bring it to me.

The last pie I made with it was with an acorn crust. :-)

gwynedd1, this is amazing stuff. Have you ever considered a blog for your recipes, tips and tricks?

[DSpencer]

Re: Is Farming the New Black?

The problem is that you're saying that this is waste when in reality what you're doing is placing a value judgment on how that money should be spent.

Clearly you think that food purchased by Food Stamps must be as distasteful and cheap as possible.

I don't have a problem with your view, but I do have a problem with your desiring to use this view for force a specific behavior for food stamp recipients, or failing that to use this as an excuse to cut payments. $130/month is not a lot of money by anyone's definition - and the eligibility levels for Food Stamps are not high at all.

Given the average levels of food stamp payout per individual, and the costs at Whole Foods, I would say that if people are indeed using their Food Stamps at Whole foods then the inevitable result is insufficient food.

If these people have other income, but choose to spend more of it - including food stamps - at Whole Foods, I still fail to see the problem. Maybe they're living 3 to a single room. Maybe they're living in their car.

Free choice.

Certainly true. Nonetheless I do find it interesting how much Food Stamp waste is featured in the MSM vs. bankster waste - especially given the relative numbers involved.

Does it not occur to you that the entire purpose of having "food stamps" as opposed to just giving people money is to limit their choice? Do you think food stamps should be able to be used towards the purchase of jewelry? If not, why are you trying to force your value judgments on people and limit their free choice? If you think all government assistance should be in the form of cash and we should do away with food stamps and housing assistance etc, then man up and say so. If not, your argument is illogical and inconsistent.

Yes, I'm making a value judgment on how taxpayer money should be spent. So are you. You just don't have the same values.

Nowhere have I stated or implied that food purchased with food stamps must be as distasteful and cheap as possible. You're just trying to be inflammatory.

I didn't bring up Whole Foods in the first place. I don't advocate banning people from using food stamps there. I do think that if people are buying 2 ounces of caviar with $130 of food stamps, it suggests something is wrong with the system.

Yet here you are vigorously defending peoples' right to buy fake sugar water with food stamps. I donated my money to Ron Paul. You think he would have signed all these bankster bailout bills? What do you want me to do? Run for office on an anti-bankster platform? You still wouldn't vote for me.

Maybe if we stopped with the bread and circuses more people would care about the banksters. Plus there's too many carbs in bread anyway

[c1ue]

Re: Is Farming the New Black?

If flying saucers ever land on the White House lawn, will the "loonies" who claimed flying saucers were real all along still be considered loonies?

There's an awfully large assumption in the above statement.

I'll further note that there are definitely areas where the consensus or perceived wisdom is wrong, but this is the exception more than the rule. Far more common is the distortion of a minor truth into some BIG TRUTH by individuals with agendas.

Does it not occur to you that the entire purpose of having "food stamps" as opposed to just giving people money is to limit their choice?

In the sense that they don't spend it for iPhones or crack, yes.

However, the benefits of creating some gigantic bureaucracy charged with enforcing 'proper' food stamp use seems more than a little ridiculous to me.

Food stamps are to be used for food by those who are in need. Can food stamp money be diverted to other purposes? Certainly so. There are all manner of scams ranging from food stamp coupon discounts to the old 'loosey' trick (selling a 5 cent cheap food item for 25 cents at the counter so the change can be in cash), no doubt there are more.

However, there already is enforcement which looks into these forms of abuse.

Thus your complaint presumably lies just with the 'perversion' of the intent of food stamps.

The problem I have with your view is that you're assuming that your own personal view is the only valid one - and that view is that the food stamp money should be used to purchase the cheapest, crappiest, highest volume food possible.

Unsurprisingly, not everyone agrees with this.

Vegetarians, for example, might prefer the choices they have at Whole Foods to what they can choose from in their local market which caters to meat eaters.

Yes, I'm making a value judgment on how taxpayer money should be spent. So are you. You just don't have the same values.

No, you're attacking perceived abuses of food stamps because you inherently dislike the program.

I, on the other hand, am pointing out your ulterior motive. This is not about my values, but rather about your desire to impose your own views on food stamp recipients.

Nowhere have I stated or implied that food purchased with food stamps must be as distasteful and cheap as possible. You're just trying to be inflammatory.

And you are not? Commenting that food stamps are being abused because they're not being spent the way you desire?

I didn't bring up Whole Foods in the first place. I don't advocate banning people from using food stamps there. I do think that if people are buying 2 ounces of caviar with $130 of food stamps, it suggests something is wrong with the system.

Please show me examples of this.

Yet here you are vigorously defending peoples' right to buy fake sugar water with food stamps. I donated my money to Ron Paul. You think he would have signed all these bankster bailout bills? What do you want me to do? Run for office on an anti-bankster platform? You still wouldn't vote for me.

Ah, yes - the old "I donated money" defense. The plenary indulgence of the American political system.

What I noted was that you're spending time and effort attacking what you perceive as food stamp abuse - and I've pointed out there are all manner of far greater abuses going on.

Maybe if we stopped with the bread and circuses more people would care about the banksters. Plus there's too many carbs in bread anyway

Ah, the old "if things were worse, they'd be better" comment.

Mao would be proud.

[DSpencer]

Re: Is Farming the New Black?

The problem I have with your view is that you're assuming that your own personal view is the only valid one - and that view is that the food stamp money should be used to purchase the cheapest, crappiest, highest volume food possible.

What I noted was that you're spending time and effort attacking what you perceive as food stamp abuse - and I've pointed out there are all manner of far greater abuses going on.

Mao would be proud.

You make up a straw man argument by putting words in my mouth, repeatedly. You try to win the argument by saying that it's not important. You invoke a variant of Godwin's law with your Mao reference. To the extent you make any relevant points at all (it would require a huge bureaucracy, it's anti-liberty) they are the same tired points I've addressed repeatedly in this very thread. And you won't actually acknowledge the counterpoints: the existing program disallows certain items already, we already have another precedent program that hasn't swallowed our country with bureaucracy, nobody has a "right" to spend government handouts on whatever they feel like.

I like having debates that rely on facts and reason. This no longer qualifies and is simply a waste of time.

[c1ue]

Re: Is Farming the New Black?

I like having debates that rely on facts and reason. This no longer qualifies and is simply a waste of time.

Right, facts and reason.

A hypothetical someone who doesn't spend Food Stamps like you believe it should be spent - that is fact and reason?

How about showing some facts on just how much food stamp abuse exists?

How much of taxpayer money - including yours - is being 'wasted'?

[lektrode]

Re: Is Farming the New Black?

oh come on, spence - surely yer not giving up _that_ easy????

this was just gettin good.

[don]

with the New Black comes a New Mag - Naturally

White Oak Pastures farm’s staff in Modern Farmer magazine.

A Magazine for Farm-to-Table

By CHRISTINE HAUGHNEY

HUDSON, N.Y. — When a fledgling magazine gets former President Bill Clinton to contribute an article, you would think he would be featured on the cover. But the cover model for the current issue of the quarterly Modern Farmer is a sleepy-looking goat. Mr. Clinton is mentioned between articles on outer space farming and soil cuisine.

The magazine, which offers advice on building a corn maze and articles on the effect of climate change on lettuce and oysters, is trying to carve out a new niche on the newsstand. It edges into the food magazine sphere with luminous photography of vegetables, while articles report on straight agricultural topics more often found in farming publications like the 111-year-old Successful Farming.

Modern Farmer, which began publication in April, is trying to benefit from the first signs of growth in the total number of farms since World War II and the farm-to-table food trend that has fueled growth for farmers’ markets and community-supported agriculture. That means the magazine has attracted readers who include an Amish farmer and vegetable supplier to Whole Foods, Brooklyn rooftop farmers harvesting kale and broccoli and myriad young farmers going back to the land.

“I know they’re trying to reach people like me and the kind of hobbyists and the people who are just kind of enamored with the idea of farming,” said Courtney Cowgill, a 33-year-old co-owner of the Prairie Heritage Farm near Power, Mont., who formerly wrote about agriculture and other topics for The Associated Press. To appeal to the person who wants to romanticize farming and the person who is knee deep in turkey droppings “is hard, and I think they’re balancing that,” she said.

It helps that Modern Farmer explores a subject on the minds of some of the world’s wealthiest people. Ann Marie Gardner, the founder and editor in chief, conceived the idea for a magazine in 2011 after she noticed that sources she interviewed for Monocle magazine seemed preoccupied by agricultural issues. In spring 2012, Ms. Gardner, who previously worked for
The New York Times and Tatler magazine, started to pitch an idea to investors. Frank Giustra, the Canadian mining billionaire and former chairman of Lion’s Gate Entertainment, who had started to produce award-winning olive oil in Umbria, Italy, took an interest in Ms. Gardner’s project. By November, he gave her enough money (she would not divulge figures) to start a Web site, and a print magazine.

“He was very interested in food investments,” Ms. Gardner said as she sat in her sun-dappled second-floor offices beneath a Pilates studio and above the Face Shop, which sells skin care products, along Hudson’s main strip. “It sat between his media interests and investments and his newfound food investments.”

The magazine has also attracted surprising financial support from advertisers eager to sell trucks, tractors, organic wine and work clothes to these young farmers. Sean O’Brien, global director of footwear for the Original Muck Boot Company, based in Smithfield, R.I., has advertised in both Modern Farmer issues.

Cheyenne Dapra, a herder in Italy, with her flock in the fall issue of Modern Farmer magazine.

“It’s really targeted almost a new consumer group for us,” Mr. O’Brien said. “We sell a lot of boots to farmers and workers and outdoorsmen. You can look at a Modern Farmer as almost a hobby farmer. This a perfect vehicle to target that key consumer group.”

Ms. Gardner has been quick to nurture her powerful supporters on the editorial and business sides. She asked Mr. Giustra to let one of her reporters travel with him and Mr. Clinton, whose foundation has benefited from Mr. Giustra’s friendship and largess, when they visited Peru and Colombia in May. He declined, but instead she was able to arrange for the former president to contribute an article. He wrote about the work his foundation has been doing with farmers globally, like helping fisherman along Colombia’s coast get their fish into restaurants. Mr. Clinton also offered his own recollections of helping his Uncle Buddy tend his farm plot in Arkansas.

“As a young boy, I picked beans, corn and tomatoes, poured tubs of water into sandy soil to grow large watermelons, fed animals and badly lost a head-butting contest to a ram,” wrote Mr. Clinton, whose foundation staff worked with Ms. Gardner on the article.

Ms. Gardner seeks business guidance daily from Rob Withers, managing director of Fiore Capital and part of Mr. Giustra’s team. Mr. Giustra declined to comment. Ms. Gardner said she hoped to find a strategic investor to help support the magazine. She said she also hoped soon to add a chief technology officer to her nine-member staff and to hold farming conferences.

The magazine has attracted a global following with the first print edition being sold in Britain, Germany and Australia as well as in the United States, according to Modern Farmer’s spokeswoman, Jessie Cohen. Traffic on the Web site, which went live in April, grew to 99,000 unique visitors in the United States in July, according to comScore. The first print issue sold 35,000 copies on newsstands and 13,000 by subscription.

Modern Farmer joins a surprisingly robust genre of farming magazines. The Alliance for Audited Media tracks 20 farming magazines in the United States and Canada and their circulation in the last three years has held strong. Scott Mortimer, publisher and general manager at Meredith Corporation, which includes Successful Farming, notes that grain prices are rising, land prices are at historical highs and the technology to produce crops has improved.

Ms. Gardner may find that some of her biggest critics are not battle-hardened media types, but farmers. Allan Van Tassel, an 83-year-old lifelong farmer who is Ms. Gardner’s neighbor, tells her regularly that the magazine does not have a chance of survival.

“It’s a nice idea,” Mr. Van Tassel said. “But as I say, you drive up and down the road and you see these small conglomerates where they’re going to raise things one year, two years. Then they’re gone.”

Ms. Gardner does not discredit the perils of either publishing or farming. While Modern Farmer slowly and steadily progressed last year, a windstorm wiped out her entire crop of pears. This year, as she has logged long hours making Modern Farmer grow, her own garden has become overgrown. Eventually, she placed her trust in a professional.

“I brought in a farmer to help me,” Ms. Gardner said.

[gwynedd1]

Re: Is Farming the New Black?

gwynedd1, this is amazing stuff. Have you ever considered a blog for your recipes, tips and tricks?

Hi Shiny,

There are other people who do some of these things, but I certainly have experienced things I have yet to read about even when searching for it. I suppose I am a good combination of finding the wild stuff and then knowing what to do with it. I have known about the art of cooking and growing my own for much longer. There are a few people out there who know wild food, and a lot of good cooks but a lot fewer of both. Seems like I find several surprises every year including my now favorite stew ingredient that, oddly, I discovered by making a pie with it.

Still, there are sources out there for some pretty good stuff. Recently I heard about wood sorrel pesto, and sure enough it was quite good. I wondered why I hadn't thought of it yet.

[DSpencer]

Re: with the New Black comes a New Mag - Naturally

White Oak Pastures farm’s staff in Modern Farmer magazine.

I got a chance to meet Will Harris (who owns/runs White Oak Pastures) and his daughter. It's quite an interesting story as he was running his farm as a typical industrial type farm for years before deciding to switch to a more natural process. He was doing a demonstration with a butcher and as the butcher would cut of pieces of meat from a hanging side of beef Will would eat some raw. I wonder how many people running an industrial feedlot would do that. He said he often ended his days relaxing in his fields with a "750ml glass of wine" which I found quite humorous and atypical of farmers.