Chart Of New Health Care Law

[vt]

http://www.jec.senate.gov/republican...4-a100c43fb5c8

It's worse than appears as the chart is only a third of the complete bureaucracy!

http://www.jec.senate.gov/republican...=CommitteeNews

We do need to do something to provide healthcare to those in need, but this was rushed through for political reasons.

[Munger]

Re: Chart Of New Health Care Law

http://www.jec.senate.gov/republican...4-a100c43fb5c8

It's worse than appears as the chart is only a third of the complete bureaucracy!

http://www.jec.senate.gov/republican...=CommitteeNews

We do need to do something to provide healthcare to those in need, but this was rushed through for political reasons.

Yes, we should clearly have waited for the GOP to endorse a single payer system.

/s

[radon]

Re: Chart Of New Health Care Law

Not seeing any single payer insurance here. This catastrophe for patients and providers was wrought by a democratic majority and signed into law by a democratic president.

[lektrode]

Re: Chart Of New Health Care Law

Not seeing any single payer insurance here. This catastrophe for patients and providers was wrought by a democratic majority and signed into law by a democratic president.

+1
cept there was NOTHING 'democratic' about it!

one of me pet peeves is the use of that term/spelling to label the political party - i'm of the opinion the use of the 2 letters at the end of the word - esp by the media - in that it conveys some sort of moral/ethical connotation that is quite bloody well UN-DESERVED.

its also how they in the media, as well as the political class - use creative (and politcally correkt) phrasiology and euphemism to define AND spin the issues!

just sayin and nothing personal mr radon.

[Raz]

Re: Chart Of New Health Care Law

Yes, we should clearly have waited for the GOP to endorse a single payer system.

/s

How about a single-payer system for lawyers?

Something on the order of Medicaid. We could call it Adjudicaid.

[dcarrigg]

Re: Chart Of New Health Care Law

Not seeing any single payer insurance here. This catastrophe for patients and providers was wrought by a democratic majority and signed into law by a democratic president.

You have a point. This bill was not the GOP's doing. The GOP wanted to do absolutely nothing. And the GOP designed exactly this system before. But they did not want this system now.

This system will be better in some ways. A little easier price shopping for policies. Kids staying on parents insurance through 26. No denials for pre-existing conditions.

In other ways, it will be worse. Tax penalties (poor-bastard tax) for people who can't afford insurance, but who don't qualify for Medicaid. No cost control. Cornhusker kickbacks. Medical device tax that nobody wants. "Cadillac" healthcare plan tax that restricts consumer choice.

Then there are the good/bad depending on your perspective things in this bill. Tax increases covered by capital gains taxes only on the wealthy who can afford it. And increase in the Medicaid rolls (and eventually costs for states). And the requirement that employers w/ over 50 employees offer coverage (if they don't receive exemptions).

But let's not forget who killed the public option, because it was not the GOP.

[lektrode]

Re: Chart Of New Health Care Law

How about a single-payer system for lawyers?

Something on the order of Medicaid. We could call it Adjudicaid.

whooo HAAA!!!

now THIS is my kind of euphemistic spin! ;)
but...dont panic, but kinda looks like the ground work for just exactly that is already happnin...

i also sense that its what one does when one gets backed into the corner

'change'...

the subject?

[lektrode]

Re: Chart Of New Health Care Law

You have a point. This bill was not the GOP's doing. The GOP wanted to do absolutely nothing. And the GOP designed exactly this system before. But they did not want this system now.

altho we still looking for just exactly who does want it - sides the med-ins-legal-drug mob that stands to 'withdraw' another trillion worth of bernanke bux for it

here's another POV on a group that DOESNT seem to want it all that much, as well:

a comment from The RightScoop (who else)

What does it tell you when the U.S. Congress Votes to exempt itself, and the Executive branch/ White House, as they did with Federal Insider Trading Laws, from the very unconstitutional Obamacare law it forces upon / impose on the entire US citizenry population- Each individual in America is forced mandated by this law to purchase a govt healthcare policy, or face a fine, aka tax, by the IRS.
Where in the US Constitution does it say that the Federal govt can do all of this to the American citizen, and exempt themselves from the very laws it imposes upon us. Nowhere, that's where. And US SC Chief Justice John Roberts knows this, but could care less when he redefined and rubber stamped this unconstitutional law.

wont disagree with you on this(below), dc - but DO TELL us more about the 2 who shot down single payer (since i've come round to the idea its the only way out - and can ya tell i've been missin your presence?? ;)

This system will be better in some ways. A little easier price shopping for policies. Kids staying on parents insurance through 26. No denials for pre-existing conditions.

In other ways, it will be worse. Tax penalties (poor-bastard tax) for people who can't afford insurance, but who don't qualify for Medicaid. No cost control. Cornhusker kickbacks. Medical device tax that nobody wants. "Cadillac" healthcare plan tax that restricts consumer choice.

Then there are the good/bad depending on your perspective things in this bill. Tax increases covered by capital gains taxes only on the wealthy who can afford it. And increase in the Medicaid rolls (and eventually costs for states). And the requirement that employers w/ over 50 employees offer coverage (if they don't receive exemptions).

But let's not forget who killed the public option, because it was not the GOP.

[radon]

Re: Chart Of New Health Care Law

A little easier price shopping for policies.

Rate hikes make these policies expensive.

Kids staying on parents insurance through 26.

Mom and Dad just got laid off because their office was closed so that the company could under the 50 person headcount. Their employer will graciously offer to hire them back part time. Then hire more people to make up the difference, all part time. Isn't the job growth wonderful, learn to love your temp agency.

No denials for pre-existing conditions.

Leads to care rationing.

I'm really not seeing anything positive about this at all except the the insurance stock I hold in my retirement portfolio has tripled because of it. I'm not sure how this helps patients.

[Munger]

Re: Chart Of New Health Care Law

This is such a sad and pathetic discussion.

[vt]

Re: Chart Of New Health Care Law

[QUOTE=dcarrigg;265849]You have a point. This bill was not the GOP's doing. The GOP wanted to do absolutely nothing. And the GOP designed exactly this system before. But they did not want this system now.

Not true. The Republicans did have alternatives:

http://www.factcheck.org/2010/02/still-on-the-table/

[DSpencer]

Re: Chart Of New Health Care Law

This is such a sad and pathetic discussion.

So raise the level of discourse with some insightful thoughts.

[Raz]

Re: Chart Of New Health Care Law

This is such a sad and pathetic discussion.

I thought that's the line you'd take.

No problem serving the dish to selfish, greedy doctors but would rather "dine out" than eat your own cooking.

Same with the Left's view of education: hell no to vouchers, while they send their kids to a private school.
And then spend every waking moment pointing out the hypocricy of the Right.

[dcarrigg]

Re: Chart Of New Health Care Law

[QUOTE=vt;265858]

You have a point. This bill was not the GOP's doing. The GOP wanted to do absolutely nothing. And the GOP designed exactly this system before. But they did not want this system now.

Not true. The Republicans did have alternatives:

http://www.factcheck.org/2010/02/still-on-the-table/

That's a bit disingenuous. HR 4038 was just 200+ pages of business as usual that would change almost nothing. A small tweak to HIPPA and a bit of malpractise reform is nibbling around the edges. It wouldn't cut 0.05% of annual GDP in costs over 20 years. Sure, both of these things might be helpful and are worth considering, but they are not a real alternative to the pre-Obamacare status quo. They are the same as the pre-Obamacare status quo. It's just the way it is.

Now maybe you liked that just fine. And that's an okay postion to have, I guess. Especially when compared to the sausage that actually got passed, you may have a valid point.

But arguing that the Republicans put forth a real alternative plan that actually changed anything significantly is not a position I think you can take here.

And if you're talking about the Ryan bill, that thing was never intended to go anywhere. It was just spitting into the wind to make noise. Bernie Sanders would have more luck nationalizing Goldman Sachs than Paul Ryan would have passing that thing. As I recall, it didn't even get a dozen sponsors or a floor vote in the House.

[vt]

Re: Chart Of New Health Care Law

Don't forget buying insurance across state lines to give the consumer choices and not the menu of a particular home state's special interest lobbies. The GOP wanted a market oriented system rather than the crazy bureaucratic monstrosity we see unfolding.

Don't get me wrong, something must be done. Some single payer systems seem to work, some are disasters. Now we penalize doctors, reward government bureaucrats, and throw huge profits at drug companies, some hospitals, and insurance companies.

As Shakesphere said: a pox on both your houses. We need to replace both of the oligarchic parties with an independent, anti fire one.

I suggest we have enough varied backgrounds, raw brain power, and respect for rational, documented discussion to maybe formulate some ideas that really help the common man, and grow the economy.