The Link Between Gut Bacteria and Mental Illness

[lektrode]

Re: chugging whole milk?

Does any of this mean I should go back to drinking whole milk instead of non-fat milk?

Interestingly the american pediatrics association now recommends whole milk for young children because of the cholesterol content!

What a switch from the late 1970's !

yep - GREAT question, PS - have been wondering about my changing from 2% - since deciding in 2000 that i had to do something about my then rather expansive midsection, which was getting in the way when i bent over to buckle the skiboots - something that wasnt noticable at sealevel, but lemmee tellya - at 9000feet, its NOTICEABLE - like when yer gut cuts off airflow to yer lungs and ya cant breath, tends to force the issue - lets just say that had been enjoying my, at the time, new found prosperity a bit too much (at the end of the proverbial day, an all) - that and the ole PPS (polynesian paralysis syndrome, which tends to develop after getting a bit too used to tropical wx conditions, read: lazy from the heat ;) had set in perty well by that point - tho i wasnt ever one to exercise for the sake of exercise - preferred to do something, you know, like fun (bike ride, windsurf, mtn hike etc summer, then ski myself into shape starting in nov) vs working up a sweat, just to work up a sweat - esp not when after sweating/working for a living all day long (was always of the opinion that those i saw jogging late afternoons around diamond head in 88-90deg/60%humid wx surely must 'work' sittin on their butts all day in an a/c'd office)

but (ok windy, wanna move along...)

i guess i ought to ask my question...

have recently - couple years back - switched to drinking almond milk (incl their chocolate variety, one of my vices ;)

whats the data on this stuff? it certainly helped take some.... uhhh... ballast... off my... expansiveness.
and i actually now prefer the taste of it over the ole moo juice...

altho i still use nesquik in my coffee, as the almond stuff doesnt quite git it in that app, not being much of a coffee-black type, and the nesquik adds just enough lightening and sweetness to make it more satisfying - after dropping the sugar, when a pal looked at me like i had 3 heads one day, putting 2 pkts of the granulated stuff in my cafe au lait - he said: try 2 cups with no sugar and you'll never put sugar in coffee again - and, of course he was right... and/so.. now have little to no use for the white/granulated stuff at all anymore, use brown and/or honey - while my nurse - on a self-imposed low glycemic diet - which she swears by - when not swearing at me - uses ONLY agave syrup and/or coconut sugar - tho i'm still a bit skeptical on some of this stuff, i am open to pursuasion of the data/evidence driven kind

and thanks mr raja, for this: http://www.westonaprice.org/ask-the-doctor

[c1ue]

Re: chugging whole milk?

You know, I always wonder why people think that even 2000 or 10000 years of so-called evolution has some appreciable impact on human genetic expression.

The documented rate of surviving real mutations is extremely low. Moreover, in order for some significant change to appear in a large part of the population, you need either extraordinary success due to said mutation or extraordinary failure on the part of the rest of the population.

I'd also note that cooking is a pretty recent phenomenon, genetically speaking. Humans have been eating raw meat for a lot longer than cooked.

Lastly, nature. In nature, omnivores eat all sorts of crap. I mean stuff like carrion, entrails, etc etc.

[lektrode]

Re: chugging whole milk?

You know, I always wonder why people think that even 2000 or 10000 years of so-called evolution has some appreciable impact on human genetic expression.

altho there does seem to be something to this, given the evidence that some tolerate cows milk/dairy better than others?

....also note that cooking is a pretty recent phenomenon, genetically speaking. Humans have been eating raw meat for a lot longer than cooked.

altho, we're glad for that advancement eh mr c1ue? - altho i used to love the flavor the occasional chunk of 'poor mans steak tartare' (raw hamburger) - when the 1st of the 'burger-murders' started happnin, i dropped that little delicacy pronto.

still tho, do prefer my burnt cow on the rare/med-rare side.

Lastly, nature. In nature, omnivores eat all sorts of crap. I mean stuff like carrion, entrails, etc etc.

never mind what gets gobbled up in some cultures - even right here in the good ole USA

rocky mountain oysters, anyone?

[lektrode]

TIF Proceedure - any input?

Thanks for fixing that, lek. It was my original, misbegotten intent . . .

no sweat, mr don - i just had to chuckle along with you - altho after a relatively minor bout of diverticulitis a few years back - again/2nd time actually, after having yet another big 'wisdom' tooth yanked (never having felt all that smart with em, nor dumber without em, they never bothered my when i was a kid, so they just left em in there - but having gone thru the agony of adult extraction - twice now, wished they'd yanked em when i was younger) - and developed a theory that the missing grinders allowed me choppers to miss stuff - the evidence being the sight of whole baby carrots in the.... uhhh... 'library' first thing in the morning...
the doc who looked me over said he kinda liked the sound of that, so advised me to be a better/more effective chomper... (and then handed me a script for a 'cocktail' of the worst side-effected antibiotics i've ever: metronidizole and something else - left me with a wicked metallic taste by time was done with it) - so you can understand why i'm a wondren if some of the 'cures' arent worse than the disease...

but still am asking: does anybody have any comments re: the T.I.F. Proceedure ???
and/or have they tried it and how'd it go???

as i sure am gettin tired of poppin the purps (never mind the side effects noted in my post above and NO, thats not me in that ad ;) and altho the diet/probiotic regimen will likely help - i'm willing to take the risk of a more aggressive course of treatment - seeing as the TIF seems like its a heluva lot less risky than what the purps might be doin to me innards...

[reggie]

Re: chugging whole milk?

Does any of this mean I should go back to drinking whole milk instead of non-fat milk?

Interestingly the american pediatrics association now recommends whole milk for young children because of the cholesterol content!

What a switch from the late 1970's !

The key nutients for the human live in the milk fats. So yes, we should be drinking whole milk.

However, this is another great example of how the propaganda machine keeps the public away from the principle issues, and diverts them to solutions that don't address the core issues. The conversation that we should be having is unpasturized versus pasturized milk. But that debate is not really in the public domain, albeit recently we've seen some awareness.

When you drink pasturized milk you are consuming molecules that have been killed in the pasturized heating process. When those nutrient molecules are killed they break apart into a form that the human body does not recognize. Hence, the body treats them as a pathogen and attacks them. This attacking process creates gut problems and raises histomine levels, resulting in allergy symptoms (why do u think so many kids have runny noises?).

Think of dairy, and just about every food, as a nutrient delivery system. We're using food to deliver nutrients from the soil to the human system. When you inject bromide, flouride and chlorine (via treated water) in to the soil that grows the grass the cows eat, you interfere with the cow's milk chemistry. Then you feed these cows corn/soy based feed, instead of grass, you further interfere with nutrient delivery to the cow. Then you boil the milk at high temp before distributing it to retail outlets for human purchase and conumption.

All of these processes changes the protein spectrum of the milk, making the product harder to digest, causing gut problems, and autoimmune responses. The vast majority of people who are Lactose intollerant are really just Pasturized Milk intollerant.

By the way, did you know that they used to add Iodine to cows milk for humans?

[reggie]

Re: chugging whole milk?

yep - GREAT question, PS - have been wondering about my changing from 2% - since deciding in 2000 that i had to do something about my then rather expansive midsection, which was getting in the way when i bent over to buckle the skiboots - something that wasnt noticable at sealevel, but lemmee tellya - at 9000feet, its NOTICEABLE - like when yer gut cuts off airflow to yer lungs and ya cant breath, tends to force the issue - lets just say that had been enjoying my, at the time, new found prosperity a bit too much (at the end of the proverbial day, an all) - that and the ole PPS (polynesian paralysis syndrome, which tends to develop after getting a bit too used to tropical wx conditions, read: lazy from the heat ;) had set in perty well by that point - tho i wasnt ever one to exercise for the sake of exercise - preferred to do something, you know, like fun (bike ride, windsurf, mtn hike etc summer, then ski myself into shape starting in nov) vs working up a sweat, just to work up a sweat - esp not when after sweating/working for a living all day long (was always of the opinion that those i saw jogging late afternoons around diamond head in 88-90deg/60%humid wx surely must 'work' sittin on their butts all day in an a/c'd office)

but (ok windy, wanna move along...)

i guess i ought to ask my question...

have recently - couple years back - switched to drinking almond milk (incl their chocolate variety, one of my vices ;)

whats the data on this stuff? it certainly helped take some.... uhhh... ballast... off my... expansiveness.
and i actually now prefer the taste of it over the ole moo juice...

altho i still use nesquik in my coffee, as the almond stuff doesnt quite git it in that app, not being much of a coffee-black type, and the nesquik adds just enough lightening and sweetness to make it more satisfying - after dropping the sugar, when a pal looked at me like i had 3 heads one day, putting 2 pkts of the granulated stuff in my cafe au lait - he said: try 2 cups with no sugar and you'll never put sugar in coffee again - and, of course he was right... and/so.. now have little to no use for the white/granulated stuff at all anymore, use brown and/or honey - while my nurse - on a self-imposed low glycemic diet - which she swears by - when not swearing at me - uses ONLY agave syrup and/or coconut sugar - tho i'm still a bit skeptical on some of this stuff, i am open to pursuasion of the data/evidence driven kind

and thanks mr raja, for this: http://www.westonaprice.org/ask-the-doctor

I bet you $10K that the almond milk ( have not gone to the link) you are drinking comes from pasturized almonds, stripping them of most of their nutrients. And depending on what state you live in, lobbyists have been able to get laws on the books that make it legal to label pasturized almonds as RAW Almonds, even though they are not really raw.

We're being factory farmed.

[lektrode]

Re: chugging whole milk?

I bet you $10K that the almond milk ( have not gone to the link) you are drinking comes from pasturized almonds, stripping them of most of their nutrients. And depending on what state you live in, lobbyists have been able to get laws on the books that make it legal to label pasturized almonds as RAW Almonds, even though they are not really raw.

We're being factory farmed.

interesting question reg - altho would think they'd (WWAV) try to keep as much IN the stuff as they could - see the link.

still hoping to get more input on the TIF proceedure???
since that is certainly pertinent to the topic of this one...
(esp since my gut IS beginning to drive me crazy/mental... ;)

[c1ue]

Re: chugging whole milk?

altho there does seem to be something to this, given the evidence that some tolerate cows milk/dairy better than others?

I'd say that evidence of lactose tolerance/intolerance being a genetic mutation (as opposed to a founder effect) is very scanty.

altho, we're glad for that advancement eh mr c1ue? - altho i used to love the flavor the occasional chunk of 'poor mans steak tartare' (raw hamburger) - when the 1st of the 'burger-murders' started happnin, i dropped that little delicacy pronto.

still tho, do prefer my burnt cow on the rare/med-rare side.

The reason we eat cooked food is because it is easier to digest - being partially digested already by the heat of cooking.

However, as fire is one of the oldest human technologies - the question arises then why this selective force has not had greater impact on the human digestive system. We're talking 100K or even 400K years - long before domestication of animals or agriculture.

never mind what gets gobbled up in some cultures - even right here in the good ole USA

rocky mountain oysters, anyone?

I'm not saying people don't eat entrails/carrion/sweetmeats now, obviously some do.

What I'm pointing out is - people were eating these for a long, long time. Where is the adaptation to that?

Equally, humans are one of the few mammals that require vitamin C. This is common among primates, but very rare elsewhere.

Why mention this? Well, you can actually get vitamin C from uncooked meat, but cooking destroys it.

[raja]

Re: chugging whole milk?

Does any of this mean I should go back to drinking whole milk instead of non-fat milk?

Drink whole milk.

Many drink reduced-fat milk because they want to lose weight, and think that by avoiding fat they can accomplish this. However, the body has complex regulatory systems, and when you eat good-quality fat, you will end up eating less calories because you will eat less food overall. But this is only true if you are eating a "natural" diet and getting a reasonable amount of exercise. Fatty foods tend to suppress the body's appetite function.

By the way, anyone who wants to lose weight has to endure the feeling of being hungry . . . and that is not pleasant. But this is the only way excess fat will be burned up. We are "programmed" to eat when hungry, so ignoring hunger is difficult, which is why so many people can't lose weight.

Others drink reduced-fat milk because of the cholesterol. However, cholesterol is not unhealthy.

[raja]

Re: chugging whole milk?

You know, I always wonder why people think that even 2000 or 10000 years of so-called evolution has some appreciable impact on human genetic expression.

.
.
.
I'd also note that cooking is a pretty recent phenomenon, genetically speaking. Humans have been eating raw meat for a lot longer than cooked.

c1ue, I'm not getting the point your are trying to make, because I'm not clear to whom you are responding . . . .

Nevertheless . . . .

Richard Wrangham of Harvard University argues that cooking of plant foods may have triggered brain expansion by allowing complex carbohydrates in starchy foods to become more digestible and in effect allow humans to absorb more food energy.^[17][18][19] Wrangham has also suggested that eating cooked food is more "natural" for the human digestive system, because he thinks that the human digestive system may have evolved to deal with cooked foods, and that cooking explains the increase in hominid brain sizes, smaller digestive tract, smaller teeth and jaws and decrease in sexual dimorphism that occurred roughly 1.8 million years ago. He also argues that raw meat and vegetables could not have provided the necessary energy to support the normal hunter–gatherer lifestyle.^[20][21]

Other anthropologists oppose Wrangham,^[22] stating that archeological evidence suggests that cooking fires began in earnest only 250,000 BP, when ancient hearths, earth ovens, burnt animal bones, and flint appear across Europe and the Middle East. Two million years ago, the only sign of fire is burnt earth with human remains, which most other anthropologists consider to be mere coincidence rather than evidence of intentional fire.^[23] The mainstream view among anthropologists is that the increases in human brain-size occurred well before the advent of cooking, due to a shift away from the consumption of nuts and berries to the consumption of meat.^[24][25]

Lastly, nature. In nature, omnivores eat all sorts of crap. I mean stuff like carrion, entrails, etc etc.

Ever eat a hot dog? The skin is made of sheep entrails.

Just because some animals subsist on carrion does not mean that it is "natural" for all omnivores to eat carrion. Dogs, for example, have a much more robust digestive system than humans, and the acid in their stomach can neutralize the bacteria in carrion.

Carrion is an important food source for large carnivores and omnivores in most ecosystems. Examples of carrion-eaters (or scavengers) include vultures, hawks, eagles,^[1] hyenas,^[2] Virginia Opossum,^[3] Tasmanian Devils,^[4] coyotes,^[5] Komodo dragons,^[6] and burying beetles.^[7]

[c1ue]

Re: chugging whole milk?

c1ue, I'm not getting the point your are trying to make, because I'm not clear to whom you are responding . . . .

My point is - our modern diet, either today, 1000 years ago, or even 5000 years ago - bears zero resemblence to the diet humans ate for the vast majority of human existence as a species, much less the diet of all closely related primates.

As for Wrangham - the premise he puts forward isn't impossible. However, logistically there needs to be some form of proof.

If in fact humans were once adapted to a different diet, then there should be widespread morphological differences in the human population. After all, if we can have white, black, yellow, red - I fail to see how something so much more obviously of impact like adaptation to eating cooked plant grains cannot be detectable.

Failure to identify the genes and/or legacy attributes means his idea is nothing more than a nice theory.

The mainstream view among anthropologists is that the increases in human brain-size occurred well before the advent of cooking, due to a shift away from the consumption of nuts and berries to the consumption of meat.^[24][25]

You'll note the failure to mention fire in this statement. I don't doubt whatsoever that prehistoric man ate meat. Chimpanzees eat meat today whenever they can get it.

However, was it cooked? That is far less clear. As I noted earlier - the traditional Eskimo diet seems to show that you can live without eating citrus, if you eat raw meat. From an evolutionary standpoint - this argues that man is not adapted to eating cooked meat as there are clear negative health effects.

EDIT: I should also note that the meat that prehistoric man consumed was almost certainly not rare or medium rare, grain fed steak. Think more along the lines of rancid, garbage eating goat. And raw or barely cooked.

[dbarberic]

Re: chugging whole milk?

I bet you $10K that the almond milk ( have not gone to the link) you are drinking comes from pasturized almonds, stripping them of most of their nutrients. And depending on what state you live in, lobbyists have been able to get laws on the books that make it legal to label pasturized almonds as RAW Almonds, even though they are not really raw.

We're being factory farmed.

Reggie is correct. Raw almonds are illegal in the US, with the exception of a few CA farms where you have to go directly onto the farm and by them there.

"Effective September 2007, the USDA ordered all almond growers to “sterilize” almonds in one of several ways: heat them using steam, irradiate them using a controversial ionization process, roast or blanch them, or treat them with propylene oxide (PPO).
PPO is a known carcinogen, and most countries, including the EU, have banned imported nuts treated with PPO. The chemical is so nasty that it’s even been banned by both the National Hot Rod and American Motorcycle Racing Associations, where it had been used as a fuel additive before it was deemed too dangerous.
The new rule created deceptive labeling. Almonds that have undergone chemical treatments or heating for pasteurization are still labeled “raw.” Consumers who purchase “raw” almonds may well think that those almonds are natural and unprocessed. Moreover, there will be no label requirement to specify what kind of pasteurization treatment was used among the many approved methods or combination of options."

Source: http://www.anh-usa.org/raw-and-organ...major-victory/

[nedtheguy]

Re: chugging whole milk?

redacted

[aaron]

Re: The Link Between Gut Bacteria and Mental Illness

I had a lot of acid reflux. After I stopped eating wheat, I have taken only a few Prilosec since.

Yes, you will have to give up some stuff. If you are not willing, take the pharmaceuticals.

[reggie]

Re: chugging whole milk?

There is a reason that the FDA demands almond sterilization - http://ucce.ucdavis.edu/files/datastore/234-2453.pdf:
"Salmonella has been shown to sporadically but consistently occur on harvested almonds; when present, levels are low (Bansal, Jones, Abd, Danyluk, & Harris, 2010; Danyluk et al., 2007). Limited surveys and documented recalls indicate that Salmonella can also be found in other nuts (Little, Rawal, de Pinna, & McLauchlin, 2010; Palumbo, Beuchat, Danyluk & Harris,2011). The sources of such contamination in nuts and seeds are not known, but likely arise from the pre-harvest environment and are carried through during harvest and postharvest handling (Danyluk et al., 2008; Podolak etal.,2010; Uesugi, Danyluk, Mandrell, & Harris, 2007)."

More recently here in Australia: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-10-2...recall/4337064

If almonds growers want to sell raw almonds, then put some "skin-in-the-game" (Taleb, 2012), label them such, and then hold them responsible for all medical costs and liabilities from illness and deaths. Of course that could never happen, and neither should it happen nor the FDA allow public health to be put in danger. However, it's much easier for the raw almond folks to sit around and cry foul at the FDA while at the same time enjoying it's taxpayer-funded protection against foodborne illness. They wouldn't want that sort of responsibility anyway.

THE FDA IS BULLSHIT, and so are their reports. Of course they have to produce rationale for their actions that the public will buy into. But one has to look past that, past the propaganda. You have to ask yourself what is the impact of these nutrient cleansing programs, and how the system of these types of programs conspire to impact human health. One won't see what's going on if one just looks at each node in the system miopically.

Hence, I only eat unpasturized almonds, and only drink unpasturized milk (grass fed, baby). There is no way you'll get that pasturized poison past my lips, and that is exactly what that crap is, poison. Just look at how the body responds to it.

I'll take my chances with some pathogen. But I know the farms that I get my milk and almonds from, I have visited their land, pet their cows, met and spoken with the owners, and visited the processing faciliities. I'm just not going to let anyone destroy my digestive system, cause auto-immune responses, and neurological deficiencies. If God want to take me with a pathogen, then so be it, but I'm not going to let a Nazi-type health management program run by psychopathic "men" destroy me.