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  • Surreal National Security: Brits smash Guardian storage media

    Pity this isn't a Bizarro world satire, but instead is reality - especially coupled with the 9 hour questioning of Greenwald's SO.

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/08..._gchq_tempora/

    GCHQ spooks reportedly rocked up at The Guardian's London headquarters and oversaw the destruction of some computer hardware - because the machines may have stored copies of documents leaked by whistleblower Edward Snowden.

    The move came after the newspaper's editor-in-chief Alan Rusbridger refused to comply with demands to return material leaked to the newspaper by Snowden, who has blown the lid off the NSA's controversial global internet dragnets. Top-secret information on America's surveillance operations provided by Snowden was revealed to the world in a series of articles published by the paper.

    Battle-hardened by its experience as a media ally of WikiLeaks three years ago - when the left-wing organ played a part in disseminating classified Afghanistan war logs and other sensitive American documents - The Guardian ran its reporting of the Snowden affair from its US offices, rather than the UK where press laws are tougher and pre-publication injunctions rampant.But this failed to deter British spooks, Rusbridger explained:
    The mood toughened just over a month ago, when I received a phone call from the centre of [the UK] government telling me: "You've had your fun. Now we want the stuff back." There followed further meetings with shadowy Whitehall figures. The demand was the same: hand the Snowden material back or destroy it. I explained that we could not research and report on this subject if we complied with this request. The man from Whitehall looked mystified. "You've had your debate. There's no need to write any more.”


    Yet there was more to follow, as demands from Blighty's g-men went even further, the spooks seemingly unaware that Guardian staff are capable of backing up files off-site. Rusbridger added:
    I explained to the man from Whitehall about the nature of international collaborations and the way in which, these days, media organisations could take advantage of the most permissive legal environments. Bluntly, we did not have to do our reporting from London … The man was unmoved. And so one of the more bizarre moments in the Guardian's long history occurred – with two GCHQ security experts overseeing the destruction of hard drives in the Guardian's basement just to make sure there was nothing in the mangled bits of metal which could possibly be of any interest to passing Chinese agents. "We can call off the black helicopters," joked one as we swept up the remains of a MacBook Pro.


    The bespectacled editor said the destruction of his newspaper's kit, which he describes as a "peculiarly pointless piece of symbolism", satisfied Whitehall. He related the episode for the first time on Monday in a piece defiantly stating that the destruction of the computers will have a limited effect on the Guardian's reporting of NSA and GCHQ surveillance - in fact, just as much effect as the seizure of a laptop, phones, hard drives and camera from David Miranda, the partner of Guardian journalist Glenn Greenwald, over the weekend.

    Miranda was held by anti-terror cops for nine hours and his digital equipment seized at London Heathrow airport, as the Brazilian was en route to Rio de Janeiro from a meeting in Berlin with Laura Poitras, the US filmmaker who has worked with Greenwald on the Snowden files. The Guardian paid for Miranda's flight.

    This sort of mission has become a regular occurrence according to Rusbridger, who said Guardian hacks and their associates are flying around the world to have face-to-face meetings about the Snowden leaks, essentially because they have lost faith in the security of any form of electronic communication.

    "It would be highly unadvisable for Greenwald (or any other journalist) to regard any electronic means of communication as safe," Rusbridger explained. "The Guardian's work on the Snowden story has involved many individuals taking a huge number of flights in order to have face-to-face meetings. Not good for the environment, but increasingly the only way to operate. Soon we will be back to pen and paper."

    It's unclear how many machines were involved in the smash-up operation, or how they were selected. In follow-up responses to readers, Rusbridger doesn't get into specifics but does say that no drives were actually seized for forensic examination. He's keen to portray the whole exercise as both petty and futile.
    "They never touched the hard drives, so, no they got nothing from them," Rusbridger said. "We explained to the UK government on a number of occasions that there were other copies not on UK soil."

  • #2
    Re: Surreal National Security: Brits smash Guardian storage media

    This is simply unacceptable in a free society. We no longer live in a free society. We are only living with illusion of a free society. The high flying words of our constitutions still stand, but they are no longer heeded.

    More and more privacy-centric sites are voluntarily shutting themselves down in fear or protest of government surveillance. This is the wrong move, IMO. They're playing right into the hands of those who want to cut off free communication. We are perilously close to having a government agent openly sitting at every news outlet controlling editorial content, a la the old Communist KGB and Pravda. They are already there electroniclly, scanning data logs.

    If The Guardian were to stop the presses in a boycott, the government would probably breathe a sigh of relief, shut it down permanently and replace it with a government-run, government-controlled news service. That's the final stage.

    We are now living under fascism, on the slippery, steepening slope to pure totalitarian control.

    The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way, and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theatre.

    - Frank Zappa (1977)

    Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Surreal National Security: Brits smash Guardian storage media

      Originally posted by shiny
      More and more privacy-centric sites are voluntarily shutting themselves down in fear or protest of government surveillance. This is the wrong move, IMO. They're playing right into the hands of those who want to cut off free communication.
      Would you prefer sites that purport to offer privacy, but in reality do not?

      I was talking with a PhD yesterday (in cryptography no less). The only reason he doesn't work for some intelligence service is that he's a foreign national and can't get security clearance (and didn't particularly want to).

      He told me a couple of interesting stories about the ways be which privacy is being invaded:

      1) In Brazil, by law all cars now have to have an RFID chip. The RFID chip allows monitoring stations to capture the identity of the car it is installed in. This is ostensibly to cut down on car thefts, but in reality all that is necessary is for a thief to find the RFID and replace or disable it.

      2) As a person who is very concerned about privacy, he prefers to get an apk to install apps into Android. He did this with Pandora some time ago. In the usual Android install - there was a long list of requests to open access. Most were pretty straightforward, but one was an access to contacts.

      He actually stopped the install and called Pandora to ask why was access to contacts necessary. They told him it was so he could share a channel with his friends, if so desired. Not one month later, a story came out where an adware company was using this contact access to send ads; Pandora was using their library but this library had a second transfer point where contacts went not just to Pandora, but to the adware company.
      Last edited by c1ue; August 21, 2013, 12:24 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Surreal National Security: Brits smash Guardian storage media

        Originally posted by c1ue View Post
        1) In Brazil, by law all cars now have to have an RFID chip. The RFID chip allows monitoring stations to capture the identity of the car it is installed in. This is ostensibly to cut down on car thefts, but in reality all that is necessary is for a thief to find the RFID and replace or disable it.
        Tires already have rfid https://www.google.com/search?q=rfid+car+tires

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        • #5
          Re: Surreal National Security: Brits smash Guardian storage media

          I think a read distance of 24 inches isn't a big privacy concern...

          http://www.rfidjournal.com/articles/view?269

          I also question just how well the tires can be read while in motion.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Surreal National Security: Brits smash Guardian storage media

            GCHQ spooks reportedly rocked up at The Guardian's London headquarters and oversaw the destruction of some computer hardware - because the machines may have stored copies of documents leaked by whistleblower Edward Snowden
            Wow, they are really milking this story. It must be working for them... people are getting pissed, worried and scared.

            Originally posted by shiny! View Post
            This is simply unacceptable in a free society. We no longer live in a free society. We are only living with illusion of a free society. The high flying words of our constitutions still stand, but they are no longer heededl.
            Oh c'mon, you're not buying this stuff? I promise you, from every cell in my body, that this entire Snowden affair is being produced and is contrived. Yes, some of these events are happening, but one could make the same argument for actors on a stage.
            The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge ~D Boorstin

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Surreal National Security: Brits smash Guardian storage media

              Originally posted by reggie View Post
              Oh c'mon, you're not buying this stuff? I promise you, from every cell in my body, that this entire Snowden affair is being produced and is contrived.
              Contrived by whom and for what purpose?

              Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Surreal National Security: Brits smash Guardian storage media

                so laura poitras is CIA or a sucker?

                bill binney?

                side note: i'm not scared.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Surreal National Security: Brits smash Guardian storage media

                  Originally posted by shiny! View Post
                  Contrived by whom and for what purpose?
                  To generate the precise human reaction that you described in your earlier post...

                  We no longer live in a free society. We are only living with illusion of a free society. The high flying words of our constitutions still stand, but they are no longer heeded.

                  More and more privacy-centric sites are voluntarily shutting themselves down in fear or protest of government surveillance. This is the wrong move, IMO. They're playing right into the hands of those who want to cut off free communication. We are perilously close to having a government agent openly sitting at every news outlet controlling editorial content, a la the old Communist KGB and Pravda. They are already there electroniclly, scanning data logs.

                  If The Guardian were to stop the presses in a boycott, the government would probably breathe a sigh of relief, shut it down permanently and replace it with a government-run, government-controlled news service. That's the final stage.

                  We are now living under fascism, on the slippery, steepening slope to pure totalitarian control.
                  This reflects someone who is internalizing the orientation that is the objective of this particual propaganda operation (Snowden et al). The intended result is that a real whistleblower will be too afraid to confront this system, for it is supposed perfection in protecting itself.
                  The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge ~D Boorstin

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Surreal National Security: Brits smash Guardian storage media

                    Originally posted by reggie View Post
                    To generate the precise human reaction that you described in your earlier post...


                    This reflects someone who is internalizing the orientation that is the objective of this particual propaganda operation (Snowden et al). The intended result is that a real whistleblower will be too afraid to confront this system, for it is supposed perfection in protecting itself.
                    Perhaps. But it is also possible that there is ton's more of really juicey stuff in Snowden's computers, waiting to make it's way to the public eye. The fact that the Brits went after Guardian is actually like giving Snowden the British stamp of approval.

                    And whistle blowers can find other ways to disclose interesting information. A true, died-in-the-wool idealist that wants to get info out will. They always have. And with the internet, once it's published, it's out there forever...and uploading docs isn't all that hard. Staying on the move, in disguise, and uploading from public cafe's is not that hard, especially if it's in dribs and drabs to many interested people.

                    Again, if it's an idealist, they do actually take delight in falling on their swords in a very public manner.

                    As for the Propaganda Press...we already have people slowly coming to grips with the MSM simply being the propaganda arm of the Elite, Banksters, and the Government.

                    We will all use the internet, and when they can pull the plug on internet users, well, there are other internets out there aborning.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Surreal National Security: Brits smash Guardian storage media

                      Originally posted by Forrest View Post
                      Perhaps. But it is also possible that there is ton's more of really juicey stuff in Snowden's computers, waiting to make it's way to the public eye. The fact that the Brits went after Guardian is actually like giving Snowden the British stamp of approval.

                      And whistle blowers can find other ways to disclose interesting information. A true, died-in-the-wool idealist that wants to get info out will. They always have. And with the internet, once it's published, it's out there forever...and uploading docs isn't all that hard. Staying on the move, in disguise, and uploading from public cafe's is not that hard, especially if it's in dribs and drabs to many interested people.

                      Again, if it's an idealist, they do actually take delight in falling on their swords in a very public manner.

                      As for the Propaganda Press...we already have people slowly coming to grips with the MSM simply being the propaganda arm of the Elite, Banksters, and the Government.

                      We will all use the internet, and when they can pull the plug on internet users, well, there are other internets out there aborning.
                      Do you think the Brits would ever do anything that would give a real whistleblower a "Stamp of Approval"? Of course not. Real whistleblowers never see the light of day, and are totally squashed. But the key is to do it quietly and underhandedly, so no one notices while making it virtually impossible for the whisteblower to point fingers without looking like a nutcase who can be easily discredited.

                      And the propaganda press includes far more than the mainstream media. It encompasses alternative media as well as conspiracy media and whistleblower media. If you want control over people and the way they think, why would you not create all of the forms of media that you know people might create organically and run them yourself, so that no communications are ever outside ones control. And in such a system of full spectrum control, would you not create false attacks every once in a while, just to make it look like there was still indpendent sources against the system still in existence.

                      The system is way more comprehensive and complex than people give it credit for. These guys at the thinktanks are the brightest minds on the planet, they don't leave things to chance. That would be an illogical and unnecessary risk.

                      Snowden is just another "Snow-job". Wait, just wait, this story is going to continue to get more bizarre. It's going to get harder and harder, except for the most indoctrinated, to continue to buy-in. You'll see, I guarantee it.

                      By the way, time to rethink the Pentagon Papers 'whistleblowing' episode.
                      The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge ~D Boorstin

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Surreal National Security: Brits smash Guardian storage media

                        Originally posted by reggie View Post
                        These guys at the thinktanks are the brightest minds on the planet...
                        Hard to square with this...
                        http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthr...840#post264840

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Surreal National Security: Brits smash Guardian storage media

                          while i don't believe that the snowden affair was contrived, i do believe that the brits destroying hard drives at the guardian was pure theater. surely they know that the information was backed up elsewhere on the globe, and if they didn't know they were told so, and it wasn't hard to figure out in any event. so the destruction at the guardian's office was partly bully-boy tactics aimed at the guardian's employees, and partly theater for a wider audience. the proof is that they destroyed them instead of confiscating them for analysis.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Surreal National Security: Brits smash Guardian storage media

                            We will all use the internet, and when they can pull the plug on internet users, well, there are other internets out there aborning.
                            It would not take too much effort to use current WiFi standards to set up a wireless/parallel peer to peer internet. Amateur radio operators have been doing something similar for a very long time with much slower connections. Skip the www crap and go with IP addreses and you don't even need a DNS.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Surreal National Security: Brits smash Guardian storage media

                              Originally posted by reggie
                              The system is way more comprehensive and complex than people give it credit for. These guys at the thinktanks are the brightest minds on the planet, they don't leave things to chance. That would be an illogical and unnecessary risk.
                              Unfortunately your credibility simply isn't very good. Your constant techno-Manichaeism would be tiring if it weren't so utterly inane.

                              Originally posted by LorenS
                              It would not take too much effort to use current WiFi standards to set up a wireless/parallel peer to peer internet. Amateur radio operators have been doing something similar for a very long time with much slower connections. Skip the www crap and go with IP addreses and you don't even need a DNS.
                              Really? So who's going to provide the backbone throughput? How much internet is possible at Commodore 64 speeds? How secure is peer to peer - both from da gubmint as well as from others?

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