Concord NH wants a BEARCAT

[LazyBoy]

http://freestateproject.org/blogs/fs...nt-application

The Concord NH Police Department has made false and misleading statements in the above cited grant application for $258,024 in federal funds from the Department of Homeland Security (“DHS”) to receive a Lenco Bearcat armored vehicle, hereinafter the “Tank.”

From the DHS grant application:

We are fortunate that our State has not been victimized from a mass casualty event from an international terrorism strike however on the domestic front, the threat is real and here. Groups such as the Sovereign Citizens, Free Staters and Occupy New Hampshire are active and present daily challenges.

There are more entries on the blog linked above concerning this.



And a retired Marine Corps Colonel spoke out at a town meeting.

We're building a domestic army ... because the goverment is afraid of it's own citizens.

[dcarrigg]

Re: Concord NH wants a BEARCAT

For those asking how NH does it, I figured I'd give you a quick breakdown.

NH gets the largest share of its revenue from corporate taxes. 23.4%. More than any other state. In fact, at a flat rate of 8.5%, it is higher than any state for small businesses with the exceptions of CT, RI, PA, DE, and IL. But it has fewer exemptions than these other states, leading to a higher effective corporate tax rate. In fact, if you exclude Alaska and its oil largess, NH has the highest per capita revenue stream coming out of corporate taxes in the United States.

The second highest source of revenue is state property tax assessments at 16.6% of total. New Hampshire has the highest state property tax levy as a percentage of home value in the country. Combined with state and local rates, either New Hampshire or New Jersey will come out highest every time with an effective tax rate of about 1.8% of the value of a home.

The third highest source of revenue is state meal and room tax at 10.5% of total revenue. The state charges 9% on meals, rooms and rental vehicles, which is among the highest rates in the country.

Next comes tobacco tax at 9.8% of total revenue. This has become typical, but NH is able to grab an outsized share of revenue from a large population base along the MA border who hop to save $1 or so per pack.

Next comes state run liquor stores (COMMUNISM!) at 6.6%. That's fine and dandy, except the state nationalized liquor sales and killed any chance small business would have at selling it.

Finally there are smaller taxes rounding the rest out on things such as interest and dividends (5%) and Insurance and Real Estate Transfer taxes (getting the rest of FIRE), NH pulls in some 11-12% of its revenue. Lottery grabs about 3% and other small taxes and fees and settlement funds make up the other 10%, with the 38 cent per gallon gas tax making up the lion's share.

So they do not have income or sales tax. But they pull in just about the same money per capita as Pennsylvania which has a 3% income tax, 6% sales tax, but taxes property at half the NH rate, gas at 6 cents less per gallon, 3% less for meals, rooms and rentals, a quarter less per pack of smokes, 2% less on interest and dividends, etc. etc.

I have been very interested in the phenomenon of "friction" in terms of government interaction for some time. I believe the reason why these "free state project" folks have invaded New Hampshire is simply because it doesn't have an income or sales tax. And I think NH is onto something here. When there is not friction in every daily transaction and every paycheck, it looks like you are paying less.

But when you ask how much money NH takes in per person, and that property tax bill kicks in, and when all of the other less publicized taxes, like the corporate tax, add into the mix, you'll find that the state is closer to the middle of the pack. Although as a percentage of personal income, the state does a bit better, about equal to Missouri, but a bit higher than places like South Dakota, Alabama, and Tennessee.

Friction. People hate friction. NH gets this. That's why you don't go to a DMV or RMV to register your car in NH. You go to your local town hall. No labyrinthian bureaucratic lines. They hand you your plates right there. No sales tax to gripe about every time you pull out your wallet. No income tax to gripe about every time you cash your check. People like that. It makes them feel good. And people seem far less worried about the corporate tax. In fact, NH does fine with jobs even though corporate tax rates are high. Probably it's because owners like not paying income tax or sales tax and see corporate tax as more of a "cost of doing business" and less of a personal thing, even though we all know the price gets passed through.

I figured it'd be good to shed a little light on this stuff. There's a reason why there are 125 Fortune 500 companies headquartered in the Northeast (PA, NJ, NY, and New England) and yet not a one of them is in NH. They settle in nearby blue states, where taxes may be higher, but not corporate taxes.

All-in-all, it's worth thinking about. Often times these damned CNBC "Best States for Business" rankings come out. But I think the proof is in the pudding. Ask where the big boys locate. Obviously they do it for a reason. CNBC can say South Dakota is the best spot for business until it's blue in the face. But the real big business happens in New York, not Sioux Falls. And I think NH has some of the same things going on. They are policies that look good on the face of them, but when you have to make the decision to move a multi-million on up sized business somewhere, and you do the math, it might not add up for you.

Anyways, that's not to go on a rant disparaging NH. I happen to really love the state and its people. And the idea of a more frictionless government is probably worth exploring. I rarely hear things put that way. But between the large number of representatives per capita (you will bump into these folks getting coffee), and the "make the towns do it" decentralization, and the "don't do broad based taxes that piss everyone off" attitude, they have found a recipe that people really do seem to enjoy.

But I think it's good to take a sober look at these things. Otherwise the soundbites can easily carry you away. NH gets its money. Every state gets its money. It's all a matter how. State and local taxes are going to cost between 8 and 12% of what everyone makes (with the exceptions of oil booms like Alaska and North Dakota and Financial booms like New York where they can pull in a few percent more automatically). It's just how it is. That's about what it costs to run schools and electric grids and roads and whatnot. It doesn't seem like states can do it much below 8%. NH did without kindergarten, but it was still close to the 8%. States that need higher amounts run far more complicated services in larger cities - state highways ringing urban corridors, trash, rail, subway, etc. So VT could be cut to 8% from 12% if people wanted to. But I think MA and CA might actually need about 10% to keep the places running.

So if cutting down state revenue to about 8% of personal income is feasible in relatively rural states, then there's something we know. But it may be a question of how states get that money, who pays it, and when. If NH has found a better way of going about that, then this is something interesting to discuss. One little-mentioned aspect about New Hampshire is that income inequality there is lower than almost any other state in the US. Now, some of this might be due to demographic homogeneity, but that doesn't explain why neighboring VT and ME are doing much worse on this scale. Perhaps NH's blend of corporate and property taxes is actually better for alleviating inequality than sales and income taxes are. And this is something to seriously consider. How could one get more contrarian than to say something like that? At the very least, I feel it's worth a serious study.

Either way, I'm sorry to have hijacked the thread with a long, rambling post. I have been thinking these sorts of things for some time now. Once I started typing...well...you see the result.

[shiny!]

Re: Concord NH wants a BEARCAT

Your posts are always insightful and interesting, dcarrigg. I for one appreciate the time you spend sharing your thoughts. I learn a lot from you.

[lektrode]

Re: Concord NH wants a BEARCAT

Your posts are always insightful and interesting, dcarrigg. I for one appreciate the time you spend sharing your thoughts. I learn a lot from you.

+1
dc is one of our Best, in this dept.

[c1ue]

Re: Concord NH wants a BEARCAT

NH gets its money. Every state gets its money. It's all a matter how.

This is what Dr. Michael Hudson has been saying. All low property taxes do is inflate the size of the mortgage (and thus mortgage payments).

[flintlock]

Re: Concord NH wants a BEARCAT

Our local sheriff dept has several of those "tanks" sitting out beside the HQ. Actually one is a massive RV type command center. Well over a Million $ in hardware, sitting outside, not garaged or even locked behind a fence. Any beginner terrorist could just let the air out of the tires and they'd be out of service. Not that these things serve any purpose in our area. They had two, now three. To the best of my knowledge, never really used for anything that a radio car couldn't do. If things get really crazy around here, we might have some drunk guy holding his old lady hostage. That's about it. But I'm sure it was FREE money from the Feds so they figure "why not?" How on Earth did we survive before without these vehicles?

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: Concord NH wants a BEARCAT

Our local sheriff dept has several of those "tanks" sitting out beside the HQ. Actually one is a massive RV type command center. Well over a Million $ in hardware, sitting outside, not garaged or even locked behind a fence. Any beginner terrorist could just let the air out of the tires and they'd be out of service. Not that these things serve any purpose in our area. They had two, now three. To the best of my knowledge, never really used for anything that a radio car couldn't do. If things get really crazy around here, we might have some drunk guy holding his old lady hostage. That's about it. But I'm sure it was FREE money from the Feds so they figure "why not?" How on Earth did we survive before without these vehicles?

I was in such a radio command center vehicle yesterday. It was just set up out side the police station, with a cheerful officer letting folks step in for a quick look.. Goodness know what this thing cost -a big rugged truck with a coach. The equipment was radios and some cameras on extendable masts. A quick Google finds the very vehicle.



Inside is not much. Big screen display on front wall, and about 4 chairs. Rear compartment had a big screen TV and a little conference table.




Officer told me the communications gear could send or receive on "..any frequency used by anyone.."


As a nation it seems we have decided it is OK to waste money on home land security, so every knuckle head in public service has found a way buy their team a zillion dollar toy of no real utility.
Of course, the racketeers who make and sell this stuff are out helping every Deputy Barney Fife write and submit a grant application.

Today I saw where a large SWAT team hit an organic vegetable garden in Texas. Looks like a nuisance neighbor, zoning-and-codes complaint.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3764951.html

[Slimprofits]

Re: Concord NH wants a BEARCAT

Next comes tobacco tax at 9.8% of total revenue. This has become typical, but NH is able to grab an outsized share of revenue from a large population base along the MA border who hop to save $1 or so per pack.

Don't forget the thousands of people that drive to NH in order to avoid Massachusetts state sales tax on big and small ticket items alike and to buy fireworks...

[lektrode]

Re: Concord NH wants a BEARCAT

Don't forget the thousands of people that drive to NH in order to avoid Massachusetts state sales tax on big and small ticket items alike and to buy fireworks...

and THEN there's the booze.

never mind all the NH license plates that are parked in MA driveways midweek...

[lektrode]

Re: Concord NH wants a BEARCAT

.... But I'm sure it was FREE money from the Feds so they figure "why not?" How on Earth did we survive before without these vehicles?

uh huh - and the Hazen Drive crew are certainly not exceptions - altho i dont know who they all voted for (in 2008 &12) i DO have my suspicions

....
As a nation it seems we have decided it is OK to waste money on home land security, so every knuckle head in public service has found a way buy their team a zillion dollar toy of no real utility.
Of course, the racketeers who make and sell this stuff are out helping every Deputy Barney Fife write and submit a grant application.

Today I saw where a large SWAT team hit an organic vegetable garden in Texas. Looks like a nuisance neighbor, zoning-and-codes complaint.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3764951.html

could be - but then ya dont suppose this is just a tad bit of an over-reaction, eh?

it seems that ever since the unionization of the TSA (by guess who), coupled with the elections of 2008 (&12), that the
full-on militarization of The US is now unstopable

and this is the same crew that apparently thinks whats been happnin in lower manhattan 'Untouchable' ???

all the while our goodfernuthin lamestream media decides this stuff isnt worth their attention
(since its not a 'critical social issue' apparently)

thankfully tho, SOME are noticing (and connecting the dots)

and the politcal class - the new and blue bunch anyway are getting the message that not everybody thinks standing up to .gov over-reach is all that unpopular - esp since it would appear that this particular move is VERY UNPOPULAR

so theres some 'hope for change we can ALL believe in' yet!

and i'll have more comments for dc's _excellent_ essay at some point (since i think LazyBoy mustave been missin me ;)

[BK]

Re: Concord NH wants a BEARCAT

Is a State with a Population of 1.321 million (2012) - statistically meaningful when looking at Income inequality. Add in the explosion in population that has happened from people leaving Massachusetts, which has been over the last 30 years, there are probably fewer Senior citizens and few new immigrants (as a percentage of the over all poplulation).

Of course I might be wrong. But, New Hampshire is not the kind of State that draws big numbers of immigrants because there aren't many big cities with opportunities to for work.

[lektrode]

Re: Concord NH wants a BEARCAT

there likely is more sr citizens tho = retirees (from MA, ya know...)

[dcarrigg]

Re: Concord NH wants a BEARCAT

Is a State with a Population of 1.321 million (2012) - statistically meaningful when looking at Income inequality. Add in the explosion in population that has happened from people leaving Massachusetts, which has been over the last 30 years, there are probably fewer Senior citizens and few new immigrants (as a percentage of the over all poplulation).

Of course I might be wrong. But, New Hampshire is not the kind of State that draws big numbers of immigrants because there aren't many big cities with opportunities to for work.

NH is old, but not compared to its tri-state neighbors: http://www.statemaster.com/graph/peo...ple-median-age

Just like NH is less unequal than ME or VT. To me, 400 people is statistically significant to a reasonable margin of error (hence polls). So the question is not whether the 0.9% census margin of error is off in the total workforce earnings, but rather why NH is more equal than VT or ME. Like I said, they're all very demographically homogenous. They all have much in common. They all are older and whiter than not. Why is NH more equal?

That's the question I want to answer. And I think their tax structure might be a piece of that answer. But I will readily admit, the jury's out. Until I have something scientifically significant, I cannot be sure.