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Re: Elon Musk's Hyperloop- The Faster Than Sound Transportation System
In terms of sucking off the public teat, maybe.Originally posted by vtHe'll try to outdo Tesla
$68 billion dollars - let's see, at $200 per round trip (airline ticket cost), it would require 340 million rides in order to just pay back the capital. The operating costs are likely non-trivial as well, not to mention safety issues. Shooting stuff out of a railgun is just not very safe - and I'll be fascinated to see what all the people who are concerned about electric power line fields will say when they realize the railgun system will subject them to EM fields millions, billions or even higher than what AC transmission wires put out. -
Re: Elon Musk's Hyperloop- The Faster Than Sound Transportation System
I don't know what to make of this hyperloop idea. It may very well be no more than a publicity stunt. That said, I think the $68bn amount is the estimated cost for the high speed rail project, not hyperloop.Originally posted by c1ue View PostComment
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Re: Elon Musk's Hyperloop- The Faster Than Sound Transportation System
You're right - Musk is saying he can do it for only $6.8 billion. A bold assertion indeed since the infrastructure cost alone for the California bullet train is higher than the Hyperloop estimate:Originally posted by jmdpet
http://nexus.umn.edu/papers/HighSpeedRail.pdfComment
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Re: Elon Musk's Hyperloop- The Faster Than Sound Transportation System
altho 6.8 for something like that seems a bit farfetched - i do think something like this could or should be the future of transcontinental travel - some kind of mag-lev train in a tube that hurtles along at about 500-1000 mph underground.Comment
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Re: Elon Musk's Hyperloop- The Faster Than Sound Transportation System
I'm much less convinced.Originally posted by lektrode
The problem in the US is lack of population density. What a lot of people don't realize is that the shinkansen system works in Japan primarily because Japan is very, very densely populated. The routes that service the population corridor thus have huge populations nearby which can make use them - a practice reinforced by the ridiculously high costs for domestic flights. Japan also has the advantage of being surrounded by ocean. This matter because very little freight in Japan goes on the rail systems - which in turn means the rails primarily just serve people.
This isn't true in the US.
Looking at Europe - only a few of the TGV lines actually even pay for their operating costs.
High speed rail lines in the US also have the last mile problem: let's say you get from SF to LA in 1 hour. Then what? You're going to walk around LA? You can get away without a car in SF, but you definitely cannot get around LA without a car. This problem is greatly reduced in the parts of Europe and Japan which are serviced by high speed rail systems.Comment
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Re: Elon Musk's Hyperloop- The Faster Than Sound Transportation System
considering what we all here know about where oil prices are going in the future, I think mag-lev rail technology should be taken seriously tbh. The operating costs for mag-lev actually are quite low, since the train doesn't actually touch any tracks
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Re: Elon Musk's Hyperloop- The Faster Than Sound Transportation System
It's another grandiose plan to distract the lame street media from the fundamentals of Tesla.Originally posted by c1ue View PostComment
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Re: Elon Musk's Hyperloop- The Faster Than Sound Transportation System
Simpsons: The Monorail Song
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Re: Elon Musk's Hyperloop- The Faster Than Sound Transportation System
The key difference is that on the Simpsons, everyone could have a chance to ride the monorail, even if it was an awful public funding decision.
Elon Musk's work only ever effects the obscenely wealthy.
"Anyone around here have $71,070 for the cheapest, most stripped down car Tesla makes? How about enough dough for a Space X contract? Nah? Well, we could always shoot you to Ogdenville in a rail gun pod. Just pull out that black AmEx. I need to pull at least a little revenue in, or I can't keep making billions off the plebs."
It's like he read that Citigroup Plutonomy memo and decided to triple down.Comment
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Re: Elon Musk's Hyperloop- The Faster Than Sound Transportation System
I just looked up the times/costs of Chicago to St. Louis on Amtrak. 2 trains a day, 79.00 5.5 hour trip time.
I picked this route because the people in my company who travel, say that about 300 miles is about the break even
distance in time between driving and flying. I also think they say it is about 5 hours from here to St. Louis by car.
So not only does it take longer, you force yourself into a schedule and have to figure out how to get a car once in st. louis. The 5.5 hours does not include the time it takes to get to the station and enough time to board and have a safety zone built in so I don't miss the train.
If we could just get conventional rail at say 100-120 MPH few stops, with a higher frequency it might make medium run travel compare to personal auto. high speed rail to a few cities seems like a boondogle. A long haul fully loaded 747 might get 100 passenger miles to the gallon. Not all that bad.Comment
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Re: Elon Musk's Hyperloop- The Faster Than Sound Transportation System
Up here in the northeast, we have the 100-150 mph train, and I like it just fine. Although we have the population density for it, and I'm not sure how many other parts of the country would find it economical.Originally posted by charliebrown View Post
It's slower than flying, but not as bad when you count up all the time getting to an airport, getting there early, standing in security, waiting to board, and sitting on the runway. And it's about the same price as flying. 6.5 hours on the train with wifi from Boston to Washington is better than the 8 hour drive (if you don't hit bad traffic). And you have a subway on either end to take you around town.
Still, the plane is quicker. It's usually less than 2 hours into Dulles. But, like I said, you have to get to the airport at least an hour early to deal with security nonsense. And you have to get yourself by bus or car to the airport. So now we're at 4 hours say. And then, once you're out, you have to either take a 1.5 hour bus, or rent a car, unless you fly into DCA/Reagan, which is usually an extra $100 minimum.
I'd say, all things being told, flying probably costs the same and saves you 1 hour. I decided a few years back that I'd gladly give that hour up for a more comfortable, relaxed experience and better service with seats that don't kill my knees. Or course, that's less of an issue for people who aren't pushing 2 meters tall.
There are some Amtrak Routes that just absolutely kill any other method on time between the smaller towns and cities up here, even if they are on the expensive side. And these don't go all that fast. But it's nice to be able to go 130 miles in 57 minutes. It makes commuting into Boston from that far out feasible for short stints, especially if one can afford a $600 monthly pass. It's pretty expensive. But if you can afford to commute that far in the first place, it might be a good option.
Assuming 20 workdays at 130 miles, we're talking 2,600 miles per month. At 26 miles to the gallon, we're talking 100 gallons of gas to get to work and back. That's about $400 just to drive, not counting wear and tear on the car.
But forget about the wear and tear. $200 per month saves you 40 hours of commuting (from 80 to 40), and lets you get work done for the 40 hours you're still on the train. But ignore the work. Even without the incidental benefits, you're paying $5 per hour for 40 hours of freedom per month. Not too shabby if you're making good money.
Of course, living closer is much better. But for the people who are daily commuters, it extends the range through which they can look for jobs, since the city usually pays better anyways. And some of the small town stops are very cherry. Free parking. Drive on a route with no traffic lights. Show up 2 minutes before the train and hop on. I'm sure it raises the property values in these places.Comment
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Re: Elon Musk's Hyperloop- The Faster Than Sound Transportation System
I would say that the theory is rather unclear. The relative electricity consumption by a maglev vs. existing high speed trains is probably higher, not lower because of the refrigeration needs for the magnets. Existing steel rails have essentially zero electricity consumption.Originally posted by verdo
I can't say for sure, however, because all the maglev proponents are always careful to compare only against cars and airplanes, not against low speed or high speed trains. I have seen a publication that said that shinkansen operating costs were 4.3 cents/passenger mile in 1980, with overall costs in the 7.6 cents/passenger mile and revenue at 11.7 cents/passenger mile. Thing is, these are actual numbers, not theoretical, so no way to know how that maps to maglev.
The main benefit of maglev is that it can attain much higher speeds than a high speed train, but the offsetting problem is that you can't use existing rails - even high speed rails. You'd have to build an entirely new line - which is brutally expensive.Comment
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Re: Elon Musk's Hyperloop- The Faster Than Sound Transportation System
So today he is supposed to unveil his plans. Plans being an interesting word since he has already stated he does not plan to build it. In any case it will be interesting to see if this is a concrete design or just a vague idea.Comment
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Re: Elon Musk's Hyperloop- The Faster Than Sound Transportation System
altho what we know of mr musk - it'll be _anything_ but 'vague', eh?Comment
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