Car Recommendations

[rogermexico]

Re: Car Recommendations

Not exactly news, but there's lots of discussion about cars and I'm hoping the community can help me out. Likely within the next year my fiancé (or by then wife) will want a new car. Does anyone have any recommendations given the following:

1. Will be paying cash and would like to stay around $25,000. Less is obviously better, but we could afford more for the right car.
2. She'd prefer an SUV but will accept a car. Minivan is a no-go. She'd like to sit up higher, have more storage and have 4wd, but none are necessarily deal-breakers.
3. Must have a backseat for a car seat.
4. I'm lobbying for a good mix of practicality: Safety, Cost, Fuel Economy, Reliability. (Always easier to want these things in someone else's car).
5. New is preferred but slightly used will also work. She has a 2003 Jetta now so a 2011 model of something would still be a good upgrade.
6. Has owned a manual before and liked it but slightly prefers an automatic for convenience now.

Consider an all wheel drive station wagon. Some of them split the difference between the low seat position of sedans and small unibody SUVs. My BMW 50xi wagon is nice as it has about 1.5 inches higher ride height than the comparable sedan. This makes ingress and egress more comfortable without being needlessly jacked up like an SUV or crossover. I have no use for the all wheel drive most of the time, but the higher ground clearance and ride height have been nice to have. A wagon usually has comparable or better load capacity than the SUVs and crossovers with much lighter weight, better handling and better fuel mileage. I've used my wagon countless times to haul what I would otherwise have needed a truck for. And call me crazy, but I think the european ones actually look much better than the related sedans.

If you can't do a used BMW or Audi wagon then look at VW Passat and Subaru. Wagons are the swiss army knife of vehicles....

But the best advice I can offer is a general financial motivator. Only pay cash for things that depreciate. That includes cars.....

[shiny!]

Re: Car Recommendations

This isn't what your wife wants, but for anyone in the market for a good, reliable used car, Crown Vics and Grand Marquis have as much cargo space as many SUVs. They tend to run forever and are usually inexpensive to repair. Many of them have been owned by older people and are therefor gently used and well-maintained. You can buy them for a song. Mine got approx 20mpg. Not the best mpg, but when you factor in all the thousands of $$ you save in the purchase price, it works out. They're also a pleasure to drive...

[don]

Re: Car Recommendations

I'm also very on the fence about new vs used. I know that everyone says that only fools buy new but I've had a bad experience with a used car that was a maintenance nightmare. I certainly don't trust other people to take care of their cars. My current car is the first new car I've ever owned, isn't particularly known for it's reliability (Ford Mustang), and it's been going 6.5 years and almost 70k miles with no major problems. I got new tires once and I think they replaced some kind of part related to the steering for a couple hundred dollars, but other than that it's just been oil changes and gasoline.

Then there's the brand new car emotional component...

The key to me is the price differential. With the Hyundai the spread wasn't enough to eat 25-30,000 miles and less warranty. On the other hand, the Lexus ES300 I bought a while back, with 25,000 on the odometer, was deeply discounted and has run like a champ. Doing the math is the key - leave out the newness hook and if you find it's the way to go, you're a hero with the little Mrs.

[reggie]

Re: Car Recommendations

Mercedes 1995 300e Cabriolet. The W124 with the 103 engine was one of the best cars ever made. For $25K you can find one in excellent condition. And best of all, it doesn't include all of the electronic gimmickry that is so bloody expensive to repair.



Yeah, I know it doesn't meet your specs, but I betcha she wouldn't mind being seen driving in this classic! By the way, this chassis is one of the safest on the road today, and I beleive the body was formed out of 16gauge sheet metal, which you just don't see on any cars these days.

[Fox]

Re: Car Recommendations

Although it sounds like the main point is "happy wife, happy life".

a bit off topic, but while we're in the neighbourhood...

Beware young Padawan. I would like to update that age old saying with "Happy good wife, happy good life"

It is better to "give and receive" than to "give and take".

[Fiat Currency]

Re: Car Recommendations

a bit off topic, but while we're in the neighbourhood...

Beware young Padawan. I would like to update that age old saying with "Happy good wife, happy good life"

It is better to "give and receive" than to "give and take".

Here we use "Happy spouse, happy house".

Marriage is a 2-way street. 28 years and counting ...

[ddn3f]

Re: Car Recommendations

I kinda made a deal with my wife for her vehicle. I'll buy her whatever she wants as long as it is reasonable so that she can be a little bit happier about not owning a home (all her friends have bought homes). So she got her full-sized SUV that looks like a tank in preparation for having a baby and I did not get sucked into mortgaging our finances for the next 30 years yet. She's content for now at the cost of 35K vs 350K... or more.

[Fox]

Re: Car Recommendations

Here we use "Happy spouse, happy house".

ah, there we go. I'll use that one

Well, no, I won't be using it. But I will tell other about it ;)

[flintlock]

Re: Car Recommendations

I used to always buy used cars, but in my area, used car prices are out of control. I am starting to look at cars for the future when my 16 year old twins go off to college. Hands down, for the long run, buying new makes more sense to me now. Unless you can find that perfect situation buying from a relative, friend, or the rare bird that actually takes good care of their vehicle. Either that, or I might buy a 8-12 year old car and just take my chances. A quick check of completed listings in my area on Ebay showed cars with as much as 100k miles on them still selling upwards of $10,000. These are cars that can be bought for $15-16k NEW! I'm talking compact sedans, not sports cars, Jeeps, SUVs or luxury cars. No warranty, and lets face it, compact cars are not known for being the best maintained. Most people really don't seem to take as good care of cars as they used to. I have never had good luck finding a used car with even the most basic maintenance records. Not in a long time.

Reliability with most brands doesn't bother me as much as it used to. All have improved a lot, and most of the time, with proper care, if they get through the first few years without being a lemon, they will go 100k+ easy before any serious problems. There are a few brands that I would stay away from, but I'm not in the "Only buy Japanese" camp.

I like the Jetta, but VW has had dealer and reliability issues. But its still on my short list. Kia Forte just won a comparison test in Motor Trend magazine of compacts. Similar to the Hyundai Elantra, but better steering supposedly. A lot of people don't know Hyundai and Kia are affiliated. They share platforms. The Mazda 3 is worth a look too.

Most SUVs, unless you buy a stripped down version, or a tiny one, will blow that $25k budget. I assume with a kid, we'd be talking at least CRV size. I don't particularly love Hondas but the CRV is hard to beat. Well rated in most categories. My brother in law who could afford to drive anything he wanted to commuted to work in one for 5 years. Now his daughter drives it. Mazda 5 gets good reviews.

[flintlock]

Re: Car Recommendations

ugh, SUVs? Unless you go for a luxury model they drive like crap. I've never been comfortable in any of them. And the "Extra room" claim has always wrung hollow to me.

My first "non-handmedown" car was a Malibu Maxx. Which the wife and I bought particularly because it had MUCH more room than an SUV.

Now here's my thoughts on a new car. ONLY buy new if you plan on keeping it a long time. The logic here is pretty much nobody knows how or even wants to maintain their car. You'll only get longevity out of a used car by luck. Especially up here in Canada with salted roads and few people doing undercoats; because they don't keep their car more than 5 years.

I went with the new TDI Passat. Not a big fan of VW in general, but the 2012+ models drive great and have incredible room (more than all but the biggest SUVs I'm sure). The millage is phenomenal, 1000kms (625mi) per tank is typical for my in-city driving. I have yet to do a long distance highway trip that used an entire tank so I don't know what exclusive Highway mileage is like. The dealer has seen 1400km (875mi) on a highway tank but I think a properly broken in and driven engine can actually do better. Your Wife has a Jetta so perhaps you can get a deal on the trade in. I went for Manual btw because I wanted the better economy and lower maintenance cost. I'm looking for 20 years out of this puppy so transmission replacement cost is a consideration for me.

The next one I liked was the Altima. The new model is comfortable like you wouldn't believe and has good mileage for a gas engine. I also liked the sportier look of them, but sportiness is lost with the CVT. The performance is still there, you just don't get the "Vroom Vroom" out of them (Manual control of the Revs would go a long way to fix that)

My final short list entry is the new Mazda 6. I wasn't impressed with last year's model (it felt and sounded like a compact and not a mid size) but the latest model looks REALLY sharp. With good mileage and reliability its worth looking in to if they improved they way it felt and sounded on the road. (btw, my handmedowns were Buick centuries so I got used to a quiet comfortable ride. And at 19 years old, I got use to driving it to the shop a lot as well)

Things I seriously considered but scrapped were:
Sonata/Optima. Its a nice looking but cheap car, and its drive and handling show it.
Honda Civic: Boring Boring Boring.
Toyota Corolla: Honda Civic X2
Ford Focus: not bad but the Passat was a nicer ride and I really wanted the Diesel

Anyways, I hope I've helped save you some time and/or pain. It was a long process for me, so I like helping others when I can. The only final advice is take lots of test drives. Visit multiple dealerships and get them to fight between themselves, and buy something you feel comfortable and happy driving in even if it cost more. Car ownership is expensive no matter what you drive, might as well get some enjoyment out of it.

Good luck

That TDI Passat is a nice car. Unfortunately it wasn't out when I bought a Sonata SE for my wife. The Sonata has been fine, but I probably would have gone for the VW too, even though its more $. Interesting you shopped the Civic, Corolla, and Focus with the Passat and Sonata. Different class cars.

[DSpencer]

Re: Car Recommendations

We've driven the Santa Fe as a rental and liked it fairly well.

Apparently, I was wrong on this. Her recollection was that it felt like she was driving with the parking brake on...

[Gnosis]

Re: Car Recommendations

I used to always buy used cars, but in my area, used car prices are out of control. I am starting to look at cars for the future when my 16 year old twins go off to college. Hands down, for the long run, buying new makes more sense to me now. Unless you can find that perfect situation buying from a relative, friend, or the rare bird that actually takes good care of their vehicle. Either that, or I might buy a 8-12 year old car and just take my chances. A quick check of completed listings in my area on Ebay showed cars with as much as 100k miles on them still selling upwards of $10,000. These are cars that can be bought for $15-16k NEW! I'm talking compact sedans, not sports cars, Jeeps, SUVs or luxury cars. No warranty, and lets face it, compact cars are not known for being the best maintained. Most people really don't seem to take as good care of cars as they used to. I have never had good luck finding a used car with even the most basic maintenance records. Not in a long time.

Reliability with most brands doesn't bother me as much as it used to. All have improved a lot, and most of the time, with proper care, if they get through the first few years without being a lemon, they will go 100k+ easy before any serious problems. There are a few brands that I would stay away from, but I'm not in the "Only buy Japanese" camp.

I like the Jetta, but VW has had dealer and reliability issues. But its still on my short list. Kia Forte just won a comparison test in Motor Trend magazine of compacts. Similar to the Hyundai Elantra, but better steering supposedly. A lot of people don't know Hyundai and Kia are affiliated. They share platforms. The Mazda 3 is worth a look too.

Most SUVs, unless you buy a stripped down version, or a tiny one, will blow that $25k budget. I assume with a kid, we'd be talking at least CRV size. I don't particularly love Hondas but the CRV is hard to beat. Well rated in most categories. My brother in law who could afford to drive anything he wanted to commuted to work in one for 5 years. Now his daughter drives it. Mazda 5 gets good reviews.

I bought a 2011 Jetta Sportwagen TDI new based on all the right reasons ( TDI, 45 mph, most room in class, German engineering).
It's a neat ride in a lot of ways. I have had two repair issues that have been covered, but both would have been very expensive if not under warranty. The instrument cluster and the air-conditioner compressor both went. Not too impressive for a new car, so I am a bit concerned about the future.
That said, I can put a ton of stuff in this car that looks small on the outside. Love the diesel and the mph.

[photon555]

Re: Car Recommendations

Fox's advice is very good. Test drive everything you might be interested in for at least several miles highway and town. I would say even test drive vehicles out of your price range for comparison. Don't buy anything unless you have test driven it again at least one more time and better if several times. Sometimes dealers will let you take a vehicle home for a day or two if you are serious and they really want to make a sale. They call it "unhorsing the customer."
Shiny's advice is also very good. There's a lot of good info out there. Also check out forums for the vehicles you have chosen for final contenders.
Here in the DC Metro area we have a number of large dealers and one in particular I would recommend you check out. Go to fitzmall dot com where all vehicles have a "no hassle" price. They have a lot of new brands and thousands of used cars. All have their actual selling price. This is good info to know since I have used their price to get a comparable or better price from another dealer several times. They also post a lot of info about the vehicles online for comparison. I know they have a lot of new VW's in stock that are discounted.
Its good to be informed before shopping since sometimes the dealer will offer a "today" only special price. Usually it's best to decline these offers but sometimes it can save you money. My wife and I saved $1000 on her new Town and Country (over the Fitzmall price) by accepting a "buy it now offer", but we were ready to buy. The salesman actually went to the Fitzmall site to show me they were beating the price by $1000. We had already test driven other vans and got offers to compare against so we completed the sale that night about two hours after they officially closed.
Another thing to investigate is the dealer you chose to do business with. There are some that its best to avoid
Last but not least have fun! This is something you won't do very often so make sure to take your time and enjoy it.

[Andreuccio]

Re: Car Recommendations

Here we use "Happy spouse, happy house".

Marriage is a 2-way street. 28 years and counting ...

Very nice! My wife like's it too.

[Fox]

Re: Car Recommendations

Interesting you shopped the Civic, Corolla, and Focus with the Passat and Sonata. Different class cars.

actually I meant the Ford Fusion, I keep confusing them.

As for the others, welcome to the wonderful world of the car buyer's slippery slope. There's a lesson in here somewhere, so I'll post the logic (or lack there of) for the benefit of the rest of the class:

Original goal: $10K - $14K car no more than 8 years old (in canada btw, 2nd hand cars are more valued than in the US)
Logical Slip #1: well for $16K I could get a new Honda Civic.
Logical Slip #2: An equipped (ie AC and locks) Civic is $20K, for $22K I could get a Sonata
Logical Slip #3: Once the Sonata is equipped, I'm looking at the price of a Fusion or Altima ($28K)
Logical Slip #4: Passat feels and drives like a Full size sedan (what I was use to) for only $30K. Sold!

So ya, I started off with something I could have afforded with out blinking an eye to now watching the budget. There were also other logical slips in there about 0% interest rates and such even though I eventually bought with a full bank loan at 5.7%. Oh well, I'm not happy with my current finances, but I am happy with the Passat and the diesel engine

Although I saw the new 2014 Optima (assume 2014 Sonata looks the same?) and they did a nice job with the exterior design. I tell ya Kia/Hyundai are really raising the bar when in comes to curb appeal of cars. If only VW had such vision I'd be in heaven.



btw, Dspencer, have your wife sit her butt in a 2013 Altima. That will end her thoughts of an SUV pretty quick. My only real complaint of the Passat is that its not as comfortable as the Altima. I need to buy myself some extra soft seat covers to get myself over my day dreams of sitting in a new Altima.