Federal Employees Told To Spy On Each Other

[vt]

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/07/0...l#.Udy-ofnCaSo

[ddn3f]

Re: Federal Employees Told To Spy On Each Other

They might as well investigate all Government employees that are on furlough for financial difficulties.

[RebbePete]

Re: Federal Employees Told To Spy On Each Other

To me, it doesn't look like much of a change. Even ten years ago in the classified realm, employees were encouraged to report any suspicious behavior to their security officer or supervisor. Usually, that security officer was located in the same facility and knew the people involved, so could handle it without calling in the authorities (like the FBI). Minor infractions (like, for example, failing to secure a safe when you're the last one leaving an area that was otherwise secured) could go on your record, but generally didn't result in the loss of your clearance. If, however, there is a pattern of negligence, your clearance could be revoked, or would not be continued after your reinvestigation.

I think the safeguards have done a good job of keeping out blatant spying, but what the government is wrestling with now is people who divulge classified material as a matter of conscience. The very people you want handling classified material, namely those who have good character and a sense of patriotism, are those who would be most tempted to take drastic measures when they come across something they don't agree with.

[sunskyfan]

Re: Federal Employees Told To Spy On Each Other

They might as well investigate all Government employees that are on furlough for financial difficulties.

LOL .... Awesome point.

[verdo]

Re: Federal Employees Told To Spy On Each Other

It's the new cold war

[reggie]

Re: Federal Employees Told To Spy On Each Other

To me, it doesn't look like much of a change. Even ten years ago in the classified realm, employees were encouraged to report any suspicious behavior to their security officer or supervisor. Usually, that security officer was located in the same facility and knew the people involved, so could handle it without calling in the authorities (like the FBI). Minor infractions (like, for example, failing to secure a safe when you're the last one leaving an area that was otherwise secured) could go on your record, but generally didn't result in the loss of your clearance. If, however, there is a pattern of negligence, your clearance could be revoked, or would not be continued after your reinvestigation.

I think the safeguards have done a good job of keeping out blatant spying, but what the government is wrestling with now is people who divulge classified material as a matter of conscience. The very people you want handling classified material, namely those who have good character and a sense of patriotism, are those who would be most tempted to take drastic measures when they come across something they don't agree with.

This is an effort to marginalize trust across human relationships, for trust is an irrational human behavior that is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to model via computer simulations - RAND found this out in the 1950's and 60's with their efforts to trial game theory across the social. The media is doing the same in the public domain.

[lakedaemonian]

Re: Federal Employees Told To Spy On Each Other

To me, it doesn't look like much of a change. Even ten years ago in the classified realm, employees were encouraged to report any suspicious behavior to their security officer or supervisor. Usually, that security officer was located in the same facility and knew the people involved, so could handle it without calling in the authorities (like the FBI). Minor infractions (like, for example, failing to secure a safe when you're the last one leaving an area that was otherwise secured) could go on your record, but generally didn't result in the loss of your clearance. If, however, there is a pattern of negligence, your clearance could be revoked, or would not be continued after your reinvestigation.

I think the safeguards have done a good job of keeping out blatant spying, but what the government is wrestling with now is people who divulge classified material as a matter of conscience. The very people you want handling classified material, namely those who have good character and a sense of patriotism, are those who would be most tempted to take drastic measures when they come across something they don't agree with.

Absolutely.....while I'm not a fan of this administration.....this isn't a material change from the way it's been for a long time for folks with access to classified material.

I'm not sure how this will work PR wise but it certainly doesn't hurt operationally to reinforce existing longterm practices.

I would concur with ddn3f that there is increased vulnerability to compromise.

Vulnerabilities stemming from foreign infiltration due to money/financial difficulty(as seen recently with some narco cartel(s) infiltrating US federal LE in the last few years are just one example.

The state of the US economy as well as perceptions/reality of the political environment is certainly going to make it easier for foreign intelligence services to penetrate US political/military/economic institutions.

While the US has been "fighting terror", other countries have continued the Cold War or a new version of it in terms of espionage.

"Defectors of conscience" today may become the Aleksandr Solzhenitsyns of tomorrow....although I don't see the likes of Snowden even coming close.

[flintlock]

Re: Federal Employees Told To Spy On Each Other

Like a lot of things today, its not necessarily what is going on today, but how its reported. With the advent of the internet, a lot of stuff that used to go on behind close doors is brought to the light of day. Sometimes that's good, sometimes maybe not.

[don]

Usps

Speaking of federal employees, it recently came to light that all of our mail envelopes and packages are photographed and archived, averaging 1.4 billion pieces per mail day. How do you think making this public affects employees of the USPS? No effect. Improves their performance. Demoralizes them. What do you think?

[reggie]

Re: Federal Employees Told To Spy On Each Other

Like a lot of things today, its not necessarily what is going on today, but how its reported. With the advent of the internet, a lot of stuff that used to go on behind close doors is brought to the light of day. Sometimes that's good, sometimes maybe not.

And why do you believe that that is "brought to the light of day"? How do you know your chain is just not being pulled.... AGAIN?

By the way, do you think the Pentagon Paper's incident could have been "allowed" to happen? ... or perhaps even deliberately occured? If so, what might have been the motives?

Can you be certain anti-system signals emanate from non-system sources with anti-system goals? Maybe, just maybe, the system operators are far more sophisticated than we give them credit for. I think its time to check and recheck a few assumptions [that we all take for granted].

[reggie]

Re: Usps

Speaking of federal employees, it recently came to light that all of our mail envelopes and packages are photographed and archived, averaging 1.4 billion pieces per mail day. How do you think making this public affects employees of the USPS? No effect. Improves their performance. Demoralizes them. What do you think?

This is the century of the science-of-connections and connectedness. All human interactions are to be monitored and measured. It's the new game. You're going to see more info leak out along these lines everywhere.

Unlike the propaganda machine, no one gives a damn about a package one person receives from another. In other words, it's not about spying on individuals as so many worry about. No, it's about big data collection and analysis. In these terms, patterns become obvious, and allow new patterns to be created via subtle feedback mechanisms. We're talking measurement and alteration of the social on massive scales.

Don't buy into the media hype that this is on an invidiual basis, cause that technique does not facilitate the larger goals of social control worldwide.

[bungee]

Re: Usps

Don't buy into the media hype that this is on an invidiual basis, cause that technique does not facilitate the larger goals of social control worldwide.

Maybe that is true for those people that go along with government crowd control. Buy what happens to people who are not happy to stand in line and beg and bow for each grain of rice?

That is when on an individual basis all the information that has been collected about you is examined and inconvenient facts used to persuade (aka blackmail) you to fall into line or face the consequences. It could be something minor you did 20 years ago that now can be used against you.

It is totally about spying on the individual to control them. Individuals are the people with real power. The objective of the government is to stop too many individuals agreeing the same thing that is against the wishes of those in power / the government.

[reggie]

Re: Usps

Maybe that is true for those people that go along with government crowd control. Buy what happens to people who are not happy to stand in line and beg and bow for each grain of rice?

That is when on an individual basis all the information that has been collected about you is examined and inconvenient facts used to persuade (aka blackmail) you to fall into line or face the consequences. It could be something minor you did 20 years ago that now can be used against you.

Are you talking about the people that join social welfare programs of some kind? If so, then I agree, for those that are going to participate in the system or going to have to play by its rules, which means to subject themselves to all sorts of controls, like those coming in Obama's new medical health insurance dystopia.

It is totally about spying on the individual to control them. Individuals are the people with real power. The objective of the government is to stop too many individuals agreeing the same thing that is against the wishes of those in power / the government.

No No No No!!!!!

This is old-school understanding. We're now in the 21st Century, and individuality is virtually dead, except perhaps as a media fantasy. We now live in world where creating Systems, and modelling their collective behavior is the key to control. What do you think the Internet is? Why Google? Why Facebook? Why Twitter? Why Big Data? Why is Complexity Science being taught aggressively by the likes of the Santa Fe Institute?

Go back and research the findings of the 10 Macy Conferences from the 40's and 50's. They modelled approximately 256 different personality types, where each type is to be scientifically managed in order to wire their thinking appropriate. So, yes, while its all about managing actions via management of ones observations of, and orientations to the world, this is done on a group basis throughout the collective.

Yeah, every once in a while you get an individual who can jump thru all the hoops, see the simulacra, produce credible evidence of it, and successfully market that evidence via the national mainstream media, this is extremely extremely rare and those people are effectively crushed with little to no evidence of said crushing.

This is what makes the Snowden affair so comedic. Not only would this punk never be able to reach the MSN media with these stories, but if he did, there would be absolutely no media followup, and he would have already been displosed of and completely marginalized and shut down.

[flintlock]

Re: Federal Employees Told To Spy On Each Other

Oh I don't assume anything. But not everything we read today is a result of a secret cabal's attempt to takeover the world. Sometimes its just some geek sitting behind a computer trying to make a name for himself on a blog. News is big money today. Bloggers earn a living doing nothing but blogging. Every web page has an ad on it. 100 years ago most people did not take the newspaper but you can be sure a majority surf the internet today, or watch the evening news. The legit info gets broadcast right along with the misinformation. I think there is a ton of misinformation and manipulation going on with the media for sure. I just don't think everything I read is a calculated lie. Sometimes its just stupidity. Truth is, we are bombarded with bad news or scandal because bad news sells. That's nothing new. Its the sheer volume of media that has changed. The world is more connected. I don't think powerful people today are any worse than they were 100 years ago. We just hear more about it, which is not always a bad thing. Whether its truthful info or not I can't say.

[flintlock]

Re: Usps

Speaking of federal employees, it recently came to light that all of our mail envelopes and packages are photographed and archived, averaging 1.4 billion pieces per mail day. How do you think making this public affects employees of the USPS? No effect. Improves their performance. Demoralizes them. What do you think?

Technology can be a double edged sword. I can see how recording each piece of mail could be used to make employees more honest and dutiful,etc. But it seems to me that more and more technology is being sold as a benefit when it may not always be the actual intent. What they do with the information will determine how it affects the postal worker's performance. It very well could raise morale AND performance if used well. It could hurt both if used poorly. I'm a little more concerned about the abuse of the mail recipient angle. Does big brother really need to know that someone is getting 5 porno magazines a month, or subscribes to Guns and Ammo?