smartphone demand flagging suddenly?

[lektrode]

Re: smartphone demand flagging suddenly?

I just got a freedompop hot spot. So far its working great. I use about 1G / month for e-mail and surfing.

from what vzw told me, the smartphones - at least the ones they're selling now - are also hotspots?
my plan is (still) 2 lines, one for the handset and the other for the pc/usb modem - so one of the selling points is that i can drop the 2nd line and use the phone as a wifi hotspot - with the drawback being that cant yak and web at same time....

This amounts to 10.00 a month for home internet (500MB free + .02$ MB after that). DSL is expensive in my area. $20.00 a month + all of the taxes which I assume will bring the bill closer to 24 - 26 per month. the 4G
wireless also is faster on download then DSL. I'm not sure if the hot spot is tied to my geographic location or not. If it isn't it also means I have internet
anywhere there is coverage. I will have to move the hot spot a few miles away and see if it still connects.

Shiny, I don't know if your area has them, but in the chicago area, we have six county atlases. They come in a spiral bound book for about $30.00. It has every
street in my six county area (which is a lot), and has grid markers and a street index. You don't really need a internet map for most navigation unless you leave your
area a lot. Even then, if it is a planned trip you can print maps off of mapquest and bring them with you. Beats a $30.00/mo+ data plan just to have a map.
I keep one in my car at all times which I got at a garage sale for $3.00, and have one at home.

Another handy thing to have is a GPS, you can pick up a used one for 20-30 bucks that has crude maps, but best of all if you are broken down and don't
know where you are, you can call and give exact coordinates of where you are.

these are all good points, cb - but is also the primary motivation for me to go with the smartphone, since ya get all those features with the one device - esp considering that they also function as a hotspot for when more than the 2x4" screen is desirable.

altho i was a bit hesitant to give it up, have already converted my prev unlimited data plan (on the 2nd line, but was 3g) to a 1gig/mo level - since i rarely exceeded 2gigs and esp since wifi is quite a bit more readily available these daze - tho not quite 'everywhere' enuf for me - and still concerned about the script kiddies/hackers when it comes to online banking etc, so not inclined to use wifi for that stuff, at least not 'public' hotspots

all in all, i still consider vzw's pricing a fair value vs others lower priced, but sketchy service - but i'll be glad to drop the 2nd/data line, altho it'll still be appx 100/mo, all-in, with unlimited voice/text and 1gig data - and down from 125 that i have been paying (with voice mins at 1000peak, 4000nites/wknds, nites starting at 8pm, unlimted vzw to vzw - but the voice svc was only in hawaii, so couldnt use it when over in america)

[c1ue]

Re: smartphone demand flagging suddenly?

What's the cheapest type of phone and data speed that would let me view maps? The only time I'd need a cellphone is if my car breaks down or if i get lost and want to see a map. Ting has some non-smart phones that they say can access the web, but I have my doubts as to how usable they might be in that regard. And they use Sprint, which is patchy service around here at best.

Well, pretty much any smartphone you get will have 3G. 3G will work - it may be slow, but it won't seem that way if you haven't been already hooked onto a faster speed.

The main issue is how well it works in your area. For that, the only real way to tell is to try. There are apps which allow measurement of signal strength (and have maps of them), but really the problem is few people know all the places they actually go.

If all you really want is navigation - you'd be better off just buying a standalone GPS device.

I will say, however, that for myself and my wife, the ability to use the internet, check email, and do 'light' work is extremely helpful. My ability to hook up my Sprint phone to my laptop to use the internet has saved me all sorts of cash (vs. paying a hotel a daily fee); equally the habit and ability to use the internet is extremely useful if you travel abroad - as internet data costs are so much lower pretty much anywhere overseas. Having even an iPad 1 with a foreign convenience store bought sim card with maps, tripadvisor, and Google translate is great.

[quigleydoor]

Re: smartphone demand flagging suddenly?

What's the cheapest type of phone and data speed that would let me view maps? The only time I'd need a cellphone is if my car breaks down or if i get lost and want to see a map. Ting has some non-smart phones that they say can access the web, but I have my doubts as to how usable they might be in that regard. And they use Sprint, which is patchy service around here at best.

This question seems like a good segue to mention Nokia. Nokia acquired Navteq a few years ago. Now Navteq mapping technology is available as offline maps in Nokia phones. You can download an entire state or continent while you have a wifi connection, and use it while you are driving. You don't need to pray for cell coverage after getting lost. Your map is already in your hand.

The same mapping tech is used for turn-by-turn driving directions, just like a GPS navigator is built into your phone. Again, no cell data is used (except for optional auto-suggest searching when you are typing in a destination).

(As an aside, Microsoft's Bing search engine has maps based on Navteq. Also note that Nokia's mapping tech has been rebranded "HERE".)

Nokia's smartphones are branded Lumia and run Windows Phone OS. They are not dirt cheap, but you get high quality for your dollar, and should expect the longevity that Nokia was famous for in the 2000s. The Lumia 520 or 521 models are the 2013/Q2 budget line. The 520 is available unlocked for under $200 now.

The 521 is essentially the same as the 520, and is available on T-Mobile. Note, T-Mobile is the first of the major carriers to sell phones without roping customers into extended contracts. You can buy a phone and transfer your service to another carrier. The best part is T-Mobile will let you pay for your phone in installments over two years. Since the phone is not subsidized by a sleazy 2-year contract, you pay the full unsubsidized price in monthly installments.

Edit: It's worth mentioning a couple more interesting facts about the Nokia Lumia phones:

1. Best camera for low-light settings.
2. Even though it's a Windows device, you don't need to plug it into a PC in order to install apps. You can plug it into a PC and copy music files. Everything else, including update of podcast subscriptions, happens without plugging in.
3. Podcast updates happen automatically only when the phone is charging and it has a wifi connection, saving your battery and your data plan.
4. Built-in FM receiver. When all else fails, listen to the radio.

Disclaimer: I own a stake in Nokia stock. Bought it at the bottom, for under book value. It is an emerging market play and a management turnaround play.

[charliebrown]

Re: smartphone demand flagging suddenly?

I know a smart phone will do all of this with one device, but usually that convience comes with a price. I get GPS for free, My 3G trac phone is $20 for the phone and $6.00 month with 60 minutes talk / 120 texts, i can even get web pages on it. They load slow and i have a small 3.5" screen. My home internet is 10.00 / month. If I could get a smart phone with all of these features for 16.00 a month, or heck I might even spring for $20.00 a month, I would do it. Your bill is $100 a month, too much for me. A hundred here and hundred there and pretty soon you are talking real money for the little people out there. If I didn't have kids, I would drop the phone too. I don't need to talk to anyone that much while I'm away.

[dcarrigg]

Re: smartphone demand flagging suddenly?

Here's some less-than-happy customer reviews of Republic Wireless:

http://www.clarkhoward.com/videos/cl...ss-deal/vFmkM/

For what it's worth, I've had two of them for a month now, and neither of us have had a problem yet with reliability. We're both pretty happy. But we're also in New England where there's not a lot of rural areas. So maybe that's a difference with Sprint service?

I'm not sure. But you can always turn off the wifi calling if you want with just the click of a button. I use it for my business now - that and google voice. They are working well enough for me.

[c1ue]

Re: smartphone demand flagging suddenly?

I know a smart phone will do all of this with one device, but usually that convience comes with a price. I get GPS for free, My 3G trac phone is $20 for the phone and $6.00 month with 60 minutes talk / 120 texts, i can even get web pages on it. They load slow and i have a small 3.5" screen. My home internet is 10.00 / month. If I could get a smart phone with all of these features for 16.00 a month, or heck I might even spring for $20.00 a month, I would do it. Your bill is $100 a month, too much for me. A hundred here and hundred there and pretty soon you are talking real money for the little people out there. If I didn't have kids, I would drop the phone too. I don't need to talk to anyone that much while I'm away.

Yes, T-mobile has/had a 1.5G internet service. 8 years ago, I would use that to connect to emails while riding the Caltrain to/from work.

It does work - but there are definitely problems with some web pages. The speed is so slow that essentially all high graphic web sites are unusable. And I don't mean porn - even going to say Safeway.com or WalMart.com because you need to log into your regular account to sign up for a coupon, is a problem.

The 1.5G is also somewhat problematic for apps. I use the United app for example - and I really don't know how that would work with 1.5G - it sometimes takes a really long time even with 4G.

I do totally agree on the price - the US is rather unusual in that data costs are so much higher than voice at least at the subscription level, and there are few if any decent choices for prepaid data.

[Thailandnotes]

Re: smartphone demand flagging suddenly?

and there are few if any decent choices for prepaid data.

Maybe Americans would get more pissed off if they traveled more. In Bangkok before you get your luggage off the belt you are approached by two or three phone companies, 9 bucks for a sim card with a 1 gig data plan. They do the switch while you wait for your bag, no forms, nothing, some even take foreign currency.

[bungee]

Re: smartphone demand flagging suddenly?

What's the cheapest type of phone and data speed that would let me view maps? The only time I'd need a cellphone is if my car breaks down or if i get lost and want to see a map. Ting has some non-smart phones that they say can access the web, but I have my doubts as to how usable they might be in that regard. And they use Sprint, which is patchy service around here at best.

Have a look at Maps with Me for Android. There is a free version that works fine you just can't use some advanced features like create bookmarks. You can download the maps using wifi and save them to the phone / memory card and then it uses the GPS in the phone to locate you on the map. As you have downloaded the maps you don't need any data plan. There is no navigation. Maybe that's an advanced feature? or something they will add in time?

As to which is the best for maps/navigation Android or Apple. At the moment Android probably wins as Apple kicked google maps off their app store and tried to put their own replacement in which apparently wasn't so great. I'm sure it will improve in time. The google Navigation app pulls live traffic data from somewhere so you can see how busy roads are (at least in the UK) which is useful seeing ahead of time if there is a road block before you are stuck in ti and can't turn off.

[c1ue]

Re: smartphone demand flagging suddenly?

Have a look at Maps with Me for Android. There is a free version that works fine you just can't use some advanced features like create bookmarks. You can download the maps using wifi and save them to the phone / memory card and then it uses the GPS in the phone to locate you on the map. As you have downloaded the maps you don't need any data plan. There is no navigation. Maybe that's an advanced feature? or something they will add in time?

As to which is the best for maps/navigation Android or Apple. At the moment Android probably wins as Apple kicked google maps off their app store and tried to put their own replacement in which apparently wasn't so great. I'm sure it will improve in time. The google Navigation app pulls live traffic data from somewhere so you can see how busy roads are (at least in the UK) which is useful seeing ahead of time if there is a road block before you are stuck in ti and can't turn off.

Let me just interject a bit - it is necessary to separate 'navigation' from 'maps'.

The plain display of maps, with the ability to jump to a specific address, is fairly well advanced by any system you'd care to use. Navigation, however, particularly turn by turn voice based - is not quite so carefree.

Google doesn't allow hooks into its turn by turn voice, for example. It is possible to feed in a destination address and invoke their app, but you cannot for example subsequently return back to your own app to overlay parking data (which they don't have). The standalone navigation companies like Garmin, TomTom, and so forth have turn by turn, and furthermore add in more detail: they'll have things like speed limits, road signs, etc. Everyone is working hard on POIs - points of interest like restaurants, stores, and gas stations, and most recently parking garages. App based approaches offer things like real time traffic reports - which an unwired standalone navigation device generally can't.

If you are just looking for a map - as defined above - the standalone devices are just fine for that. They don't have a monthly data fee at all although there are voluntary software 'updates' for changes to maps. So long as you're not living in an area where they're tearing everything up and rebuilding very regularly, the updates probably aren't necessary.

The apps, on the other hand, don't require paid updates but do require wireless data. From personal experience, the Google and other online maps are nowhere near as good as the standalone - I've had all sorts of negative experiences like restaurants on the wrong side of the road, 'phantom' addresses, and so forth. To be fair, my experience is far deeper than most as I have literally matched every single block in several cities vs. Google's data.

[quigleydoor]

Re: smartphone demand flagging suddenly?

The standalone navigation companies like Garmin, TomTom, and so forth have turn by turn, and furthermore add in more detail: they'll have things like speed limits, road signs, etc.

FWIW, Garmin is a front-end for Navteq maps. Nokia smartphones are another front end for the same turn-by-turn functionality based on the same underlying map databases. I haven't played around with a Garmin device very much, but I believe that a Nokia phone has all the same capabilities. And then the Nokia phone also has a more typical wireless-data-dependent online map app as well.

TomTom on the other hand is based on another underlying system called TeleAtlas. There are basically only three viable mapping services: Google, TomTom/TeleAtlas, and Nokia/Navteq.

I think that Nokia has a good strategy for building on their Navteq asset, inventing new ways for phone users to use geolocation services. One good example is Pulse, an instant messaging system that lets users embed a location tag in a private message to a group of friends. (Actually it supports two tags at once, one for "I am here" and one for "I'd like to meet up there".) This is great for coordinating with people for impromptu gatherings. It is used much more in other countries than in USA, so I haven't actually been able to try it out that much.

It's interesting to me that my post yesterday in this thread received no responses. It's another indication, based on people's predispositions, that Nokia as a company and as a stock has room to grow.

[shiny!]

Re: smartphone demand flagging suddenly?

Thanks to everyone chiming in here about maps, navigation, etc... You're giving me a lot of good information to work with. I hadn't realized the difference between maps and turn-by-turn navigation, for one thing. I think for starters I'll just get a Rand McNally City Map atlas to keep in the car.

I seldom need a map or navigation, but for some inexplicable reason I get crazy upset when I get lost.. it really freaks me out! Keeps me from exploring. I might actually spring for a Garmin thingy once I pay off the dog's vet bills. My avatar is a sick puppy :-(

Edit- afterthought: I'm too much a Luddite to figure out how to use a smart phone or social networking apps, but if I do get a smart phone you've just about convinced me to go with Nokia (if they have a super cheap no-contract plan).

[c1ue]

Re: smartphone demand flagging suddenly?

It's interesting to me that my post yesterday in this thread received no responses. It's another indication, based on people's predispositions, that Nokia as a company and as a stock has room to grow.

I did not respond because I have present or have had direct interactions with the 3 companies you note above, as well as a number of others.

Google, TeleAtlas (merged with TomTom not so long ago), and Navteq are the primary digital providers of maps, but actual map companies number more including Magellan (now Thales). Garmin actually does have maps, but decided to switch to Navteq only 1 year ago.

I do think Navteq is doing a lot of good things, but the success of this division does not guarantee the success of the overall company. The overall company has to execute on a successful smartphone strategy a la Samsung - and so far the jury is still out.

[plinko]

Re: smartphone demand flagging suddenly?

Galaxy S3 user on ting here. I'm happy with it overall, and have had 2 phones on it with bills as low as 30 bucks/month (don't use data much except during big travel months, still heavily use wifi at home) but would not go with them if you have bad sprint coverage, particularly if you think you'll be using a lot of data and roaming (ting doesn't support data roaming).

As far as android in general, I'd try to only use a nexus-series phone and not the garbage samsung throws on. I use a homebrew ROM on the galaxy s3. If you have no idea what I just said, buy an iphone - trust me, you'll be happier.

[plinko]

Re: smartphone demand flagging suddenly?

Also, for offline map data I use "GPS Nav & Maps" for android. It uses open street map and costs way less than the other solutions, and worked well enough in european cities - I frankly hated sygic/navigon when I tried them on a road trip to vegas. I still trust google maps for navigation more, but this is handy as a backup if you don't have a data plan and forgot to download google maps offline (which has an area limit from my experience)

[NCR85]

Re: smartphone demand flagging suddenly?

If you're feeling adventurous you can find smartphones with Quad Core processors and HD screens (even FHD) at Chinese web stores at a fraction of what they cost in the West. No 4G unfortunately, but still tremendously good deals if you play your cards well. Do a search on MTK6589 processors if you want to find them.