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  • Hutchinson on models: The Mathematical Menace

    Summary: The saying about lies, damn lies, and statistics? Repeat for models.

    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_...01-070513.html

    Far from being tools to increase knowledge and understanding, mathematical models are tools of obfuscation.

    The brouhaha about the spreadsheet error in Carmen Reinhart and Kenneth Rogoff's 2010 paper "Growth in a time of debt" brings home an important economic truth. Not that Reinhart and Rogoff were in error; their overall conclusion is clearly true, not to say obvious, and correction of the error in their spreadsheet merely softened the conclusion without invalidating it. However the economic truth is that the invention of computer modeling has for the last 40 years allowed charlatans to peddle spurious models in the service of their political agendas, and policymakers and the general public are all too ready to be fooled by these devices.

    The attempt to model mathematically complex scientific and sociological interactions is popularly thought to have begun with the computer model of nuclear interaction used in the 1942-45 Manhattan Project, but the techniques and thought processes involved go back well beyond this. Perhaps the most significant pre-computer use of model theorizing came from Rev Thomas Malthus, who postulated that the increase over time in food supply was arithmetical, that in population geometrical, and therefore population would always outrun the food supply.

    The fate of Malthus' theory illustrates both the value and the downside of mathematical modeling. On the one hand, a neat mathematical demonstration can make a theory infinitely plausible to voters and policymakers. (Malthus later became a key advisor to the great Lord Liverpool, helping in the design of the Corn Laws.) On the other hand, outside factors, not contained in the model, can make its conclusions false - in Malthus' case, his otherwise plausible conclusion (which may well turn out prescient in the very long run, if global population is not controlled) was at least for 200 years falsified by the Industrial Revolution, which hugely increased the productivity of agricultural labor and, through crop improvements, agricultural land.

    The first misguided economic forecast to use a computer was the Club of Rome's effort in 1971. ("The Limits to Growth" was published in 1972, but the model was showcased in the autumn of 1971, when I attended a presentation thereof.) The presentation described an econometric model of the world economy, including such factors as environmental problems and the possibility of starvation through overpopulation, which was then projected iteratively 40 years forward, to about today.

    The Club of Rome made one huge error compared with their climate change successors; they made apocalypse inevitable. Every simulation, including those that were run with completely unrealistic assumptions like an immediate 80% decrease in pollution or resource usage, ended with the collapse of the global economy and eco-system within 40 years. There was thus no expensive program of redemption that we could undertake; whatever we did, however ecological we became, we were doomed anyway. Unsurprisingly, the Club of Rome had little effect on practical politics, even in the 1970s.

    Its model was in any case erroneous. When I saw it at the presentation, I realized that the modelers had made the same mistake I had struggled with in Cambridge's first, embryonic computer modeling course six months earlier: they had extrapolated a set of equations containing exponential terms forward through 40 iterations, without taking care of the rounding errors in the simulation (in those days models were limited to six or seven significant figures, owing to constraints on computer capacity).

    Pushed 40 times through a simulation containing exponentials, the error terms exploded in size, forcing the graph catastrophically off the page, in one direction or another. (I tried to explain this in the presentation's question period, but without success - bringing the light of truth to a distinguished professor's model and his prejudices simultaneously was beyond me.)

    Thus the Club of Rome's multiple, inevitable disasters were purely the result of computer errors. Had they fixed the errors, they might have produced a more plausible (though doubtless still erroneous) result in which simulations where pollution decreased by 80% or population growth stopped failed to produce economic collapse, while only those with "naughty" policies resulted in disaster. For the Club of Rome's backers, that would have been a much more useful outcome, giving them license to nag policymakers for the next decade about the evils of the unconstrained free market.

    "Value at risk" had the advantage over the Club of Rome's model that it wasn't faulty in its execution, as far as I know. However its underlying premise was flawed, that financial instruments obey strictly the laws of Gaussian random motion, in particular that their returns have the extremely thin "tails" typical of Gaussian distributions.

    When Goldman Sachs chief financial officer David Viniar wailed in August 2007 that he was seeing "25-standard deviation events, day after day" it should have caused everyone using value-at-risk models to bin them, because under Gaussian theory 25-standard deviation days are effectively impossible, being 1 million to 1 against in the entire life of the universe. However, extraordinarily, it was later revealed that JP Morgan was still using value at risk at the time of the London Whale trading fiasco four years later.

    Value at risk's prevalence reflects another problem with computer models: their results reflect the prejudices and economic interests of the modelers. In the case of value at risk, traders and mid-level managers want the apparent risk of positions to be minimized to top management and especially to regulators in order that they can take the largest positions possible and thereby maximize their profits and bonuses.

    Furthermore, they like a system that undervalues the risk of "exotic" products such as credit default swaps and collateralized debt obligations, as well as highly engineered options positions, because those products are generally more profitable than "vanilla" products such as bonds, futures and interest rate and currency swaps. When banks are "too big to fail", top management's risk/reward profile is aligned with those of their traders, since failure means only a taxpayer bailout. Needless to say, with flawed models such as value at risk available, that situation has an exceptionally unfavorable risk profile for taxpayers.

    Global warming models suffered from the problems of both the Club of Growth model and value at risk: they were attempting to describe a poorly understood system with forward extrapolation over a long period, and they were being designed by scientists with both a philosophical and an economic interest in the outcome (since additional global warming fears brought them increased resources).

    Professor Michael Mann's notorious "hockey stick curve", for example, was designed to demonstrate that global warming in the 20th century was more extreme than in the entire previous millennium; it suffered both from faulty data and from a skewed algorithm designed to produce a hockey stick curve out of almost anything.

    In all three of the above cases, the most surprising factor was the ability of a discredited model to remain salient in the argument as a whole. As a former mathematician, I would naively imagine that faulty mathematics would immediately get my work discredited, and that a model whose underlying assumptions or methodology had been demonstrated to be wrong would be effectively useless.

    In practice this appears not to be the case; constructing a faulty mathematical model of something is a useful activity, since even after its faults have been discovered and demonstrated it remains salient in the argument. The reality of course is that few of us are comfortable discussing the arcana of mathematical models, and so continue to be convinced by them even after they have been proved to be erroneous.

    In the world of mathematical models, Reinhart and Rogoff were thus mere innocents. Their mistake was both accidental and elementary, and was easily discovered by another researcher with an axe to grind. Then, because their error was so easy to understand, it discredited their model more thoroughly than much more egregious errors discredited the Club of Rome, value at risk and hockey stick models. After all, even after the Reinhart/Rogoff error was corrected, the model continued to show their conclusion to be generally valid, which was not true in the other cases.

    The conclusion to be drawn is thus a depressing one. The output from mathematical models depends crucially on the assumptions used to construct them, so even when no error is involved those assumptions color the models' results to reflect the policy preferences or economic interests of their designers.

    To take a simple example, gross domestic product (GDP), as designed by Simon Kuznets in 1934, includes government spending at full cost, even when it produces no economically useful output. Thus Maynard Keynes' economic recommendation to cure a recession, of using the unemployed to dig holes and fill them in, is a self-fulfilling prophecy. It will automatically increase GDP because of the definition of GDP, since the useless government spending will be counted as output.

    Yet, except for any health benefits for the unemployed forced to spend all day digging holes, no increase in welfare has resulted; indeed welfare has decreased because the government has incurred more debt, the unemployed presumably have other things they'd rather do than dig holes, and some of them might have found self-employment that produced genuine economic output.

    In short, mathematical models, far from being tools to increase knowledge and understanding, are tools of obfuscation. They take propositions that would be rejected by intelligent observers based on qualitative reasoning, and add a dense fog of error, producing spurious results that even an intelligent observer cannot easily deconstruct.

    Keynesian economics, expensive environmental boondoggles and economically destructive trading activities all rely on mathematical models for their justification. Until we have invented software that can deconstruct other people's models and find their flaws, we should thus disbelieve any proposition that is bolstered by such spurious artifacts.
    Note: The Corn Laws mentioned above were laws which were used to protect domestic UK producers from imports. During the Napoleonic wars, the continental Europe grain trade was interdicted and domestic UK producers of cereals had enjoyed selling their products at very high prices. The first of these laws was passed as a way to stimulate internal production; the later laws sought to ban imports entirely if the market rate was below 80 shillings per 8 bushels.

    Malthus himself was popularized primarily as a way for washing hands of any duty to relieve the effects of the Irish famines of 1817 and 1822 - why do anything when famine is mathematically certain?
    Last edited by c1ue; May 08, 2013, 11:46 AM.

  • #2
    Re: Hutchinson on models: The Mathematical Menace

    Originally posted by c1ue View Post
    Summary: The saying about lies, damn lies, and statistics? Repeat for models.

    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_...01-070513.html



    Note: The Corn Laws mentioned above were laws which were used to protect domestic UK producers from imports. During the Napoleonic wars, the continental Europe grain trade was interdicted and domestic UK producers of cereals had enjoyed selling their products at very high prices. The first of these laws was passed as a way to stimulate internal production; the later laws sought to ban imports entirely if the market rate was below 80 shillings per 8 bushels.

    Malthus himself was popularized primarily as a way for washing hands of any duty to relieve the effects of the Irish famines of 1817 and 1822 - why do anything when famine is mathematically certain?
    Thanks Clue!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Hutchinson on models: The Mathematical Menace

      Originally posted by c1ue View Post
      Summary: The saying about lies, damn lies, and statistics? Repeat for models.

      http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_...01-070513.html



      Note: The Corn Laws mentioned above were laws which were used to protect domestic UK producers from imports. During the Napoleonic wars, the continental Europe grain trade was interdicted and domestic UK producers of cereals had enjoyed selling their products at very high prices. The first of these laws was passed as a way to stimulate internal production; the later laws sought to ban imports entirely if the market rate was below 80 shillings per 8 bushels.

      Malthus himself was popularized primarily as a way for washing hands of any duty to relieve the effects of the Irish famines of 1817 and 1822 - why do anything when famine is mathematically certain?

      Generally speaking I have the same point of view that math is not truth, but quite the opposite. All math can do is define it as it is observed. However its ironic at the end :
      Thus Maynard Keynes' economic recommendation to cure a recession, of using the unemployed to dig holes and fill them in, is a self-fulfilling prophecy. It will automatically increase GDP because of the definition of GDP, since the useless government spending will be counted as output.

      It assumes a rather one dimensional point of view, exactly what the article criticizes. Take a Georgist model. The assumption in that model is that all economic surplus becomes a rent because of the monopolistic power of assets. .If that is the case then tightening the labor market shifts the surplus towards labor as it asserts its monopolistic effects. So then the question is will the surplus be more productive in the hand of the rentier or the labor/capitalist? So now in the real world what does a tight labor market really do? Not necessarily what the article implies in its over simplicity. What happens when that one producer is finally able to retain some of his surplus to create capital based on his insight? That might be because of the negotiating power of labor and capital. What happens when the slave master runs out of slaves and must employ a freeman? Money must flow to the freeman who has the motivation to innovate, and all from a tight slave labor market.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Hutchinson on models: The Mathematical Menace

        Everything's political. Especially math.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Hutchinson on models: The Mathematical Menace

          Originally posted by c1ue View Post
          Summary: The saying about lies, damn lies, and statistics? Repeat for models.
          Idiots love to extrapolate. Most have no idea they are doing it.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Hutchinson on models: The Mathematical Menace

            Originally posted by santafe2
            Idiots love to extrapolate. Most have no idea they are doing it.
            Idiots may love to extrapolate, but fools love to make models and pretend they're real.

            Rogues in turn make models knowing they're false in order to make fools of others.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Hutchinson on models: The Mathematical Menace

              Originally posted by c1ue View Post
              Idiots may love to extrapolate, but fools love to make models and pretend they're real.

              Rogues in turn make models knowing they're false in order to make fools of others.
              I won't attempt to read your mind or understand your idea that rogues, (of science I assume), want "to make fools of others". In science one cannot always recreate reality, one must model it. Models are not as robust as reality but they are built from real observations. The Einstein Principle and Occam's Razor drive much scientific modeling. The model has to be as simple as possible but not too simple. Scientists struggle with the midpoint of these ideas. That you see fools and rogues where I see brilliance and struggles for truth informs me more than anything you've posted previously.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Hutchinson on models: The Mathematical Menace

                Originally posted by santafe2
                I won't attempt to read your mind or understand your idea that rogues, (of science I assume), want "to make fools of others".
                As the article above noted several examples - and there are many, many more to choose from in all sorts of fields, you might consider trying harder.

                Originally posted by santafe2
                In science one cannot always recreate reality, one must model it. Models are not as robust as reality but they are built from real observations. The Einstein Principle and Occam's Razor drive much scientific modeling.
                That's funny, much of what I see in the actual guts of scientific modeling has very little to do with Occam's Razor, and even less to do with the Einstein Principle.

                The purpose of a model is to represent and predict reality. When models fails to represent or predict reality, normally they are then considered garbage. Yes, there are cases where a model is intended to explore a specific aspect and thus is not expected to represent or predict reality, but in these cases it is generally openly noted that the model is fantasy.

                Originally posted by santafe2
                The model has to be as simple as possible but not too simple. Scientists struggle with the midpoint of these ideas. That you see fools and rogues where I see brilliance and struggles for truth informs me more than anything you've posted previously.
                What I see is in CAGW is a model which is being used for a political end - this in itself isn't a big deal. However, when said model fails to either present or predict to any useful degree - yet continues to be bandied about as 'science' - I do consider this a big deal.

                When the so-called brilliant scientists you admire refuse to admit that their models have fundamental shortcomings as well as refuse to countenance the possibility that their model is flawed or outright wrong - because of real world behavior failing to live up to the model's predictions, this to me does not constitute scientific behavior.

                It constitutes dogma.

                Are these people smart? Unlike your denigration of those whom you disagree with, I actually do think these scientists are smart people. However, smart people screw up too. Smart people have prejudices too. Smart people have agendas too.

                If in fact science, fact, physical reality, or whatever objective mode is what is under discussion, there are much better criteria to judge success than the progenitor's smarts (or lack thereof).
                Last edited by c1ue; May 10, 2013, 03:09 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Hutchinson on models: The Mathematical Menace

                  I was informed that you falsely attributed a statement to me. Please refrain from doing so.

                  I did not write:

                  Originally posted by c1ue View Post
                  Originally Posted by astonas
                  Originally posted by c1ue View Post
                  In science one cannot always recreate reality, one must model it. Models are not as robust as reality but they are built from real observations. The Einstein Principle and Occam's Razor drive much scientific modeling.



                  I am not surprised in the least by your ongoing distortions of facts, but since you insist on continuing these, try to leave me out of it. Even when I have you on ignore, not all my friends do.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Hutchinson on models: The Mathematical Menace

                    Originally posted by astonas
                    I am not surprised in the least by your ongoing distortions of facts, but since you insist on continuing these, try to leave me out of it. Even when I have you on ignore, not all my friends do.
                    A typo, as is obviously clear. My apologies, and fixed.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Hutchinson on models: The Mathematical Menace

                      In general I agree with C1ue's criticism regarding the enthusiasm of institutional science and researchers for models. Of course, as in other areas, each incident and person should be judged on the evidence. Yet I firmly believe that the greatest capacity of human intellect for most people is not logic or rational thought but rather the ability to rationalize that what benefits the individual must also be the truth. In short, I am a cynic when it comes to human nature. The best thing about being a cynic is that one is seldom disappointed. Since scientists are still human they are also subject to all the failings of humanity. As in so many other areas the influence of government funds and power has had a strong corrupting effect on "science." The search for the next government grant often becomes more important than the search for unbiased data.
                      "I love a dog, he does nothing for political reasons." --Will Rogers

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Hutchinson on models: The Mathematical Menace

                        Originally posted by c1ue View Post
                        What I see is in CAGW is a model which is being used for a political end - this in itself isn't a big deal. However, when said model fails to either present or predict to any useful degree - yet continues to be bandied about as 'science' - I do consider this a big deal.

                        When the so-called brilliant scientists you admire refuse to admit that their models have fundamental shortcomings as well as refuse to countenance the possibility that their model is flawed or outright wrong - because of real world behavior failing to live up to the model's predictions, this to me does not constitute scientific behavior.
                        Sorry, missed this. I'm sure your idea that global warming is political resonates with some folks but when 98% of all university certified climate scientists think it's a real problem your boys are looking a lot like the ones living on the edge of politics. Over the last couple of years I've found your ideas with regard to global warming irrelevant. I read what you write but as Gertrude Stein said, "there's no there there". Find another issue where you can appear to be the smartest guy in the room. This is a loser.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Hutchinson on models: The Mathematical Menace

                          Originally posted by santafe2
                          Sorry, missed this. I'm sure your idea that global warming is political resonates with some folks but when 98% of all university certified climate scientists think it's a real problem your boys are looking a lot like the ones living on the edge of politics.
                          It is amusing that the 97% or 98% number still gets bandied about - when in reality the actual support is nowhere near that number.

                          You should stop reading Skeptical Science or whatever tunnel vision blog you get your information from; the latest SkS attempt to support the 97% consensus has exploded into flames - even outright CAGW believers like Richard Tol denigrate the 97% number and in turn was called a denier by the SkS believers:

                          http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/05/2...nsensus-paper/

                          Uh oh…them’s fighting words:

                          Watch the fun here:

                          This is all over the fact that Dr. Tol has said the Cook et al study has misrepresented his position:

                          Cook’s 97% consensus study falsely classifies scientists’ papers according to the scientists that published them

                          One wonders if Dana’s employer knows how much time he’s wasting on Twitter during the day, among other things.

                          UPDATE:
                          Kadaka has made a chronicle:

                          Herd Straying

                          by Kevin D. Knoebel

                          The assaulting of Richard Tol for daring to sidestep the new Dana Nuccitelli-John Cook cow patty


                          1. Richard Tol @RichardTol

                          The Cook paper comes further apart http://www.populartechnology.net/2013/05/97-study-falsely-classifies-scientists.html …
                          7:01 AM – 21 May 13

                          2. Dana Nuccitelli @dana1981
                          @RichardTol You might want to actually read our paper before claiming it’s ‘coming apart’ based on ignorant and wrong claims.

                          10:22 PM – 22 May 13
                          3. Richard Tol @RichardTol
                          .@dana1981 Don’t worry. I did read your paper. A silly idea poorly implemented.
                          10:48 PM – 22 May 13

                          4. Dana Nuccitelli @dana1981
                          @RichardTol Have to say I’m disappointed. Didn’t have you pegged as a denier before. Fine to dislike our paper, but don’t lie about it.

                          11:04 PM – 22 May 13

                          5. Richard Tol @RichardTol
                          .@dana1981 I published 4 papers that show that humans are the main cause of global warming. You missed 1, and classified another as lukewarm

                          11:31 PM – 22 May 13

                          6. Richard Tol @RichardTol
                          .@dana1981 I published 118 neutral (in your parlance) papers. You missed 111. Of the 7 you assessed, you misclassified 4.
                          11:40 PM – 22 May 13


                          7. Richard Tol @RichardTol
                          .@dana1981 Most importantly, consensus is not an argument.
                          11:41 PM – 22 May 13

                          8. Richard Betts ‏@richardabetts
                          @dana1981 Not that I approve of “Denier” but @RichardTol isn’t one anyway. We publish together http://www.economicsclimatechange.com/2010/05/climate-change-impacts-on-global_04.html … and he’s an IPCC CLA
                          1:59 AM – 23 May 13

                          9. Dana Nuccitelli @dana1981
                          @richardabetts @richardtol is behaving like one, RTing Marc Morano’s Climate Depot and misrepresenting our paper.
                          6:37 AM – 23 May 13

                          10. Richard Tol @RichardTol
                          @dana1981 In what way did I misrepresent your paper?
                          7:33 AM – 23 May 13

                          11. Richard Betts ‏@richardabetts
                          @dana1981 How is Denier defined? What is being denied? Can someone be in the 97% who accept AGW and still be a denier?
                          8:12 AM – 23 May 13

                          12. Dana Nuccitelli @dana1981
                          @richardabetts Broadly speaking, one who encourages Morano, Watts, and Poptech behaves like a denier (not necessarily same as denying AGW)
                          8:14 AM – 23 May 13

                          13. Dana Nuccitelli @dana1981
                          @RichardTol Abstract ratings and author self-ratings based on full papers are two distinct parts of our study, for one.
                          8:15 AM – 23 May 13

                          14. Richard Tol @RichardTol
                          @dana1981 When did I say they are the same?
                          8:29 AM – 23 May 13

                          15. Richard Betts ‏@richardabetts
                          @dana1981 So basically this is politics then.

                          8:40 AM – 23 May 13

                          16. Dana Nuccitelli @dana1981
                          @richardabetts No, it’s half misrepresenting our paper, half encouraging deniers to do the same.
                          8:47 AM – 23 May 13

                          17. Dana Nuccitelli @dana1981
                          @RichardTol You’ve said we misclassified your papers. We didn’t classify them at all, we rated the abstracts, invited you to rate the papers
                          8:49 AM – 23 May 13

                          18. Richard Betts ‏@richardabetts
                          @dana1981 I meant “denier” seems to be a political label – not talking specifically about Richard T’s views on your paper.
                          8:54 AM – 23 May 13

                          19. Richard Tol @RichardTol
                          .@dana1981 Semantics. You misrated my papers. When did I lie, what did I misrepresent?
                          9:46 AM – 23 May 13

                          20. Dana Nuccitelli @dana1981
                          @RichardTol It’s not semantics at all. You’re equating two different things which we evaluated separately.
                          10:06 AM – 23 May 13

                          21. Richard Tol @RichardTol
                          .@dana1981 Not at all. You generated data. The data that I understand are all wrong. The errors are not random. But now tell me about my lie
                          10:17 AM – 23 May 13

                          22. Richard Tol @RichardTol
                          @dana1981 You accused me of lies and misrepresentation. Would you care to elaborate cq withdraw your accusations?
                          11:05 AM – 23 May 13

                          23. Dana Nuccitelli @dana1981
                          @RichardTol I already elaborated twice. On top of the abstract/paper issue you suggested it was a fault our sample only included 10 of yours
                          12:14 PM – 23 May 13

                          24. Richard Tol @RichardTol
                          @dana1981 I think your data are a load of crap. Why is that a lie? I really think so.
                          12:49 PM – 23 May 13

                          25. Richard Tol @RichardTol
                          @dana1981 I think your sampling strategy is a load of nonsense. How is that a misrepresentation? Did I falsely describe your sample?
                          12:50 PM – 23 May 13

                          Such incredible savagery, as the little Dana calf relentlessly tries to shove the Tol bull far away from the herd with all of his furious might. Such a tragedy, incited by Tol insensitively daring to decide to avoid the warm squishyness of a fresh Dana/Cook plop between his hooves. How dare Tol not take one for the herd!

                          On the plus side, massive kudos to Dana for his perfect channeling of Sheldon from The Big Bang Theory. His whiny petulance was spot-on excellent. Great acting, Dana.
                          ================================================== =============

                          Reference links:
                          1. https://twitter.com/RichardTol/statu...44141289930753
                          2. https://twitter.com/dana1981/status/337438314909011970
                          3. https://twitter.com/RichardTol/statu...44845876555776
                          4. https://twitter.com/dana1981/status/337448817811132417
                          5. https://twitter.com/RichardTol/statu...55725158744064
                          6. https://twitter.com/RichardTol/statu...58036333490176
                          7. https://twitter.com/RichardTol/statu...58277321416705
                          8. https://twitter.com/richardabetts/st...93095711113216
                          9. https://twitter.com/dana1981/status/337562992436736000
                          10. https://twitter.com/RichardTol/statu...76949738266625
                          11. https://twitter.com/richardabetts/st...86801021693953
                          12. https://twitter.com/dana1981/status/337587313725022211
                          13. https://twitter.com/dana1981/status/337587672941993984
                          14. https://twitter.com/RichardTol/statu...91140276649986
                          15. https://twitter.com/richardabetts/st...93908060106755
                          16. https://twitter.com/dana1981/status/337595705952722944
                          17. https://twitter.com/dana1981/status/337596193058222080
                          18. https://twitter.com/richardabetts/st...97392369090561
                          19. https://twitter.com/RichardTol/statu...10467176488960
                          20. https://twitter.com/dana1981/status/337615597049352192
                          21. https://twitter.com/RichardTol/statu...18249334280192
                          22. https://twitter.com/RichardTol/statu...30454591139840
                          23. https://twitter.com/dana1981/status/337647766719320064
                          24. https://twitter.com/RichardTol/statu...56648841711616
                          25. https://twitter.com/RichardTol/statu...56856057106432
                          And of course, you neglect yet again to acknowledge that the climate models (which presumably the 'consensus' agree on) have shown zero predictive capability and zero ability to match actual real world results. Some might think this would validate the premise of the article posted.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Hutchinson on models: The Mathematical Menace

                            Originally posted by c1ue View Post
                            Summary: The saying about lies, damn lies, and statistics? Repeat for models.

                            http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_...01-070513.html


                            Note: The Corn Laws mentioned above were laws which were used to protect domestic UK producers from imports. During the Napoleonic wars, the continental Europe grain trade was interdicted and domestic UK producers of cereals had enjoyed selling their products at very high prices. The first of these laws was passed as a way to stimulate internal production; the later laws sought to ban imports entirely if the market rate was below 80 shillings per 8 bushels.

                            Malthus himself was popularized primarily as a way for washing hands of any duty to relieve the effects of the Irish famines of 1817 and 1822 - why do anything when famine is mathematically certain?
                            And The Economist magazine was created for the purpose of, how should I put this, "informing" the populace about the need to reform the corn laws.

                            http://www.economist.com/blogs/freee...d_the_corn_law

                            Most readers of this blog will know that The Economist was founded to further the cause of free trade. In 1843, when the first issue appeared, the debate in Britain between free traders and protectionists was at its height. Argument centred above all on the Corn Laws, which served to keep the price of grain high: corn could be imported only when the price was above a certain level and even then was subject to a high tariff.

                            A brief article explaining the connection between The Economist and the campaign to repeal the Corn Laws has just appeared on the website of MIT Press. It’s well worth a look, and can be found here:http://mitpress.typepad.com/mitpress...orn_laws_.html. It’s by Cheryl Schonhardt-Bailey, of the London School of Economics, whose book, “From the Corn Laws to Free Trade”, was published last year (by MIT Press, you won’t be surprised to learn).

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Hutchinson on models: The Mathematical Menace

                              Originally posted by santafe2 View Post
                              Find another issue where you can appear to be the smartest guy in the room. This is a loser.
                              Ad hominum insults weaken your position.
                              raja
                              Boycott Big Banks • Vote Out Incumbents

                              Comment

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