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  • Hudson on the Question of Debt

    Government Debt and Deficits Are Not the Problem. Private Debt Is.

    March 12, 2013

    Michael Hudson

    There are two quite different perspectives in the set of speeches at this conference. Many on our morning panels – Steve Keen, William Greider, and earlier Yves Smith and Robert Kuttner – have warned about the economy being strapped by debt. The debt we are talking about is private-sector debt. But most officials this afternoon focus on government debt and budget deficits as the problem – especially social spending such as Social Security, not bailouts to the banks and Federal Reserve credit to re-inflate prices for real estate, stocks and bonds.

    To us this morning, government deficit spending into the economy is the solution. The problem is private debt. And in contrast to Federal Reserve and Treasury bailout policy, we view the problem not as real estate prices too low to cover bank reserves. The problem is the carrying charges on this private debt, and the fact that debt service is eating into personal income – and also business income – to deflate the economy.

    Mortgage debt that is still leading to foreclosures, evictions, and is depressing the real estate market for most buyers except for all-cash hedge funds;

    We have been urging a write-down of mortgage debt in line with the debtor’s ability to pay, or to bring debt service in line with current market prices. The administration has bailed out the banks for their bad loans, but has kept the debts in place for most of the population. Its promise of debt write-downs has been empty.

    Student loan debt, now the second largest debt in the US at around $1 trillion, is the one kind of debt that has been growing since 2008. It is depriving new graduates of the ability to start families and buy new homes. This debt is partly a byproduct of cutbacks in federal and local aid to the universities, and partly of turning them into profit centers – financializing education to squeeze out an economic surplus to invest in real estate and financial holdings, to pay much higher salaries to upper management (but not to professors, who are being replaced by part-time, un-tenured help), and especially to create a thriving high-profit, zero-risk, government guaranteed loan business for banks.

    This is not really “socializing” student loans. Its social effects are regressive and negative. It is a bank-friendly giveaway that is helping polarize the economy.

    The character of the stock market has been turned upside down. Instead of raising equity capital to reduce corporate debt ratios, corporate takeovers are being financed with debt.

    Business debt service is still crowding out the use of corporate cash flow for new tangible investment and hiring. This is especially the case for companies bought in leveraged buyouts for corporate or management takeovers. Shareholder activism is forcing industrial companies to yield financial returns, such as using earnings for stock buy-backs to bid up stock market prices (and thereby increase the value of management stock options). We thus are seeing a buildup of financial capital, not of industrial capital.

    The result of the private-sector debt overhang is a self-feeding spiral of debt deflation. Revenue earmarked to pay bankers is not available to spend on goods and services. Lower consumer spending is a major reason why firms are not investing in tangible capital to produce more output. Markets shrink, shopping malls close down, and empty stores are appearing for rent on major shopping streets from New York City to London.

    Slowing employment is causing a state and local budget squeeze. Something has to give – and it is largely pension plans, infrastructure spending and social programs.

    However, the one kind of debt we are not worried about is government debt. That’s because governments have little problem paying it. They do not need to balance their budget with tax revenue, because their central bank can simply print the money. On balance, the overall public debt rarely needs to be paid down. As Adam Smith noted in The Wealth of Nations, no government in history ever has paid off its public debt.

    Today, governments do not even have to pay interest on money their central banks create. (Think of the Civil War greenbacks.) Even for borrowing from bondholders, Treasury borrowing costs are now the lowest in history. As for the monetary effect of governments running budget deficits, there is little threat of commodity-price inflation. Price rises are concentrated where special interests are able to indulge in monopoly pricing and rent extraction.

    Yet most of the speeches you will hear this afternoon will warn about the rising government debt, not private-sector debt. The press follows this hand wringing, urging governments to balance the budget to restore “fiscal responsibility.”

    The problem is that “fiscal responsibility” is economically irresponsible, as far as full employment and economic recovery are concerned. less government spending shrinks the circular flow between the private sector’s producers and consumers. That is the essence of Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) that Steve Keen here, and Yves Smith in the earlier panel, have been writing about in our blogs.

    So I needn’t elaborate here on how the United States should look at Greece, Spain and other eurozone disaster areas that lack a central bank to monetize deficit spending into the economy to restore growth. “Fiscal responsibility” and “smart investment policy” are mutually exclusive. What really is responsible is for the government to spend enough money into the economy to keep employment and production thriving.

    Instead, the government is creating new debt mainly to bail out the banks and keep the existing debt overhead in place – instead of writing down the debts.

    So governments from the United States to Europe face a choice: to save the economy, or to save the banks and bondholders from taking a loss by keeping the debt overhead in place and re-inflating real estate prices to a level high enough to cover the debts attached to the property whose underwater mortgages are weighing down the banking system.

    The problem is that rising housing prices increase the cost of living, and hence of employing labor. When I started to work on Wall Street fifty years ago, banks had a basic rule in lending mortgage money: mortgage debt service should not exceed 25% of family income. A year ago Sheila Bair recommended limiting mortgage lending to 32% of income. Washington’s most recent rules for providing housing loan guarantees raised the ratio to 43%.

    When it comes to analyzing comparative advantage among nations, the key no longer is food or prices for other goods and services. Financial charges and taxes are the key. The typical blue-collar family budget provides the explanation for why the United States is losing its industrial advantage:


    Housing (rent or home ownership) 40%
    Other bank debt 10 to 15%
    FICA wage withholding 13%
    Other taxes 15%

    Only 20 to 25% of the family’s budget is free to buy the commodities being produced. This means that Say’s Law – the circular flow of income and spending between employers and their work force – is diverted to pay debt service, and also to pay including Social Security and Medicare taxes as a user fee instead of these services being paid for out of the general fiscal budget by progressive taxation falling mainly on what Adam Smith, John Stuart Mill and their Progressive Era followers urged: land rent, natural resource rent, monopoly rent, and luxuries.

    A Keynesian economist would point to excess saving as the problem. But debt repayment has changed the character of saving in today’s debt-ridden economies. In the 1930s, Keynes pointed to savings being a leakage from the economy’s circular flow. What he meant by “saving” was mainly non-spending – keeping income in bank accounts or other liquid or illiquid financial investment.

    But savings rates have risen since 2008 for quite a different reason. America’s recovery of savings rate from zero in 2007 is not a result of people building up saving for a rainy day. What the National Income and Product accounts report as “saving” is actually paying down debt. It is a negation of a negation.

    This is what debt deflation means. The antidote should be more government spending and larger deficits – as well as debt forgiveness.

    Bank lobbyists are urging just the opposite set of policies. They have implanted a false memory and a false economic theory blaming hyperinflation on deficit spending. The reality is that every hyperinflation in history has come from paying foreign debts, not domestic debts.

    Germany’s Weimar inflation resulted from the Reichsbank having to pay reparations to the Allied Powers. It sold German currency on the foreign exchange markets for sterling, francs and dollars – far beyond Germany’s ability to obtain foreign exchange by exporting. Germany had been stripped of its coal and steel production capacity and its ability to export was limited. So the currency plunged.

    Declining exchange rates caused import prices to rise. The general price level followed suit behind the umbrella effect of higher import prices. More money had to be printed to pay for transactions purposes at the higher price level. Every serious study of the German hyperinflation – and also those of France and, later, of Chile – shows the same sequence of causation from foreign debt payment to currency depreciation, rising domestic prices, and finally to new money creation.

    The German economy suffered from austerity imposed by over-indebtedness. The same was true of debt-strapped Third World economies from the 1960s onward under IMF austerity programs, and it is true of Eurozone countries today. Austerity and lower government spending did not make these economies more competitive. It worsened their balance of payments, and made their distribution of wealth and income more unequal as economies polarized between creditors and debtors.

    The policy lesson for today is that to avoid debt deflation, falling markets and unemployment, the economy needs to be revived. The way to do this is what was called for and indeed promised four years ago: a write-down of debts in keeping with the ability to pay.

    Once this debt overhead is addressed, tax reform is needed to prevent a debt bubble from recurring. A tax system that favors debt financing rather than equity, and that favors asset-price “capital” gains and windfall gains over wages and industrial profits earned by producing tangible output, has been largely to blame. Also needing reform is tax favoritism for the offshore fictitious accounting that has become increasingly unrealistic in recent years.

    Unless government fiscal policy addresses these issues, the U.S. economy will face the same kind of debt-deflation pressures and fiscal austerity that is now tearing the eurozone apart.

    *Remarks by Prof. Michael Hudson at The Atlantic’s Economy Summit, Washington DC, Wednesday, March 13, 2013

    http://michael-hudson.com/2013/03/go...ivate-debt-is/

  • #2
    Re: Hudson on the Question of Debt

    This was a good article (or speech) that should have a wider appeal than some of his other recent stuff.

    He does mention hyperinflation comes from debt owed to foreigners. Isn't a large portion of U.S. debt owed to foreigners?
    And, if you include the U.S. imperial system, is that not an even larger debt to the rest of the world? - The U.S. obligation to maintain world police (peace), reserve currency status, and protection for certain essential oil producers, is also a form of foreign "debt". The U.S. owes foreigners trillions more if this is included in calculations.

    He also neglects to mention the inflationary effects of printing money. While their may not be much inflation in the U.S. (yet), we are certainly exporting that inflation to other countries in the world. One could consider this type of deficit spending as a "free lunch" for Americans, at the cost of everybody else.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Hudson on the Question of Debt

      Originally posted by aaron View Post
      This was a good article (or speech) that should have a wider appeal than some of his other recent stuff.

      He does mention hyperinflation comes from debt owed to foreigners. Isn't a large portion of U.S. debt owed to foreigners?
      And, if you include the U.S. imperial system, is that not an even larger debt to the rest of the world? - The U.S. obligation to maintain world police (peace), reserve currency status, and protection for certain essential oil producers, is also a form of foreign "debt". The U.S. owes foreigners trillions more if this is included in calculations.

      He also neglects to mention the inflationary effects of printing money. While their may not be much inflation in the U.S. (yet), we are certainly exporting that inflation to other countries in the world. One could consider this type of deficit spending as a "free lunch" for Americans, at the cost of everybody else.
      If they rolled back FICA , increased deficits and raised intrest rates, there would not be any new money in the aggragate if done in proportion. It would just have no carrying charge to the private banks. In fact chaging the leverage ratio to 0 could mean 10s of trillions with the same amount of money and no carrying charges. It would be a problem if bank credit was any better than randomly printing money. In fact I think bank credit is probably worse than randomly printing money.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Hudson on the Question of Debt

        Originally posted by don View Post
        Government Debt and Deficits Are Not the Problem. Private Debt Is.

        March 12, 2013

        Michael Hudson

        There are two quite different perspectives in the set of speeches at this conference. Many on our morning panels – Steve Keen, William Greider, and earlier Yves Smith and Robert Kuttner – have warned about the economy being strapped by debt. The debt we are talking about is private-sector debt. But most officials this afternoon focus on government debt and budget deficits as the problem – especially social spending such as Social Security, not bailouts to the banks and Federal Reserve credit to re-inflate prices for real estate, stocks and bonds.

        To us this morning, government deficit spending into the economy is the solution. The problem is private debt. And in contrast to Federal Reserve and Treasury bailout policy, we view the problem not as real estate prices too low to cover bank reserves. The problem is the carrying charges on this private debt, and the fact that debt service is eating into personal income – and also business income – to deflate the economy.

        Mortgage debt that is still leading to foreclosures, evictions, and is depressing the real estate market for most buyers except for all-cash hedge funds;

        We have been urging a write-down of mortgage debt in line with the debtor’s ability to pay, or to bring debt service in line with current market prices. The administration has bailed out the banks for their bad loans, but has kept the debts in place for most of the population. Its promise of debt write-downs has been empty.

        Student loan debt, now the second largest debt in the US at around $1 trillion, is the one kind of debt that has been growing since 2008. It is depriving new graduates of the ability to start families and buy new homes. This debt is partly a byproduct of cutbacks in federal and local aid to the universities, and partly of turning them into profit centers – financializing education to squeeze out an economic surplus to invest in real estate and financial holdings, to pay much higher salaries to upper management (but not to professors, who are being replaced by part-time, un-tenured help), and especially to create a thriving high-profit, zero-risk, government guaranteed loan business for banks.

        This is not really “socializing” student loans. Its social effects are regressive and negative. It is a bank-friendly giveaway that is helping polarize the economy.

        The character of the stock market has been turned upside down. Instead of raising equity capital to reduce corporate debt ratios, corporate takeovers are being financed with debt.

        Business debt service is still crowding out the use of corporate cash flow for new tangible investment and hiring. This is especially the case for companies bought in leveraged buyouts for corporate or management takeovers. Shareholder activism is forcing industrial companies to yield financial returns, such as using earnings for stock buy-backs to bid up stock market prices (and thereby increase the value of management stock options). We thus are seeing a buildup of financial capital, not of industrial capital.

        The result of the private-sector debt overhang is a self-feeding spiral of debt deflation. Revenue earmarked to pay bankers is not available to spend on goods and services. Lower consumer spending is a major reason why firms are not investing in tangible capital to produce more output. Markets shrink, shopping malls close down, and empty stores are appearing for rent on major shopping streets from New York City to London.

        Slowing employment is causing a state and local budget squeeze. Something has to give – and it is largely pension plans, infrastructure spending and social programs.

        However, the one kind of debt we are not worried about is government debt. That’s because governments have little problem paying it. They do not need to balance their budget with tax revenue, because their central bank can simply print the money. On balance, the overall public debt rarely needs to be paid down. As Adam Smith noted in The Wealth of Nations, no government in history ever has paid off its public debt.

        Today, governments do not even have to pay interest on money their central banks create. (Think of the Civil War greenbacks.) Even for borrowing from bondholders, Treasury borrowing costs are now the lowest in history. As for the monetary effect of governments running budget deficits, there is little threat of commodity-price inflation. Price rises are concentrated where special interests are able to indulge in monopoly pricing and rent extraction.

        Yet most of the speeches you will hear this afternoon will warn about the rising government debt, not private-sector debt. The press follows this hand wringing, urging governments to balance the budget to restore “fiscal responsibility.”

        The problem is that “fiscal responsibility” is economically irresponsible, as far as full employment and economic recovery are concerned. less government spending shrinks the circular flow between the private sector’s producers and consumers. That is the essence of Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) that Steve Keen here, and Yves Smith in the earlier panel, have been writing about in our blogs.

        So I needn’t elaborate here on how the United States should look at Greece, Spain and other eurozone disaster areas that lack a central bank to monetize deficit spending into the economy to restore growth. “Fiscal responsibility” and “smart investment policy” are mutually exclusive. What really is responsible is for the government to spend enough money into the economy to keep employment and production thriving.

        Instead, the government is creating new debt mainly to bail out the banks and keep the existing debt overhead in place – instead of writing down the debts.

        So governments from the United States to Europe face a choice: to save the economy, or to save the banks and bondholders from taking a loss by keeping the debt overhead in place and re-inflating real estate prices to a level high enough to cover the debts attached to the property whose underwater mortgages are weighing down the banking system.

        The problem is that rising housing prices increase the cost of living, and hence of employing labor. When I started to work on Wall Street fifty years ago, banks had a basic rule in lending mortgage money: mortgage debt service should not exceed 25% of family income. A year ago Sheila Bair recommended limiting mortgage lending to 32% of income. Washington’s most recent rules for providing housing loan guarantees raised the ratio to 43%.

        When it comes to analyzing comparative advantage among nations, the key no longer is food or prices for other goods and services. Financial charges and taxes are the key. The typical blue-collar family budget provides the explanation for why the United States is losing its industrial advantage:


        Housing (rent or home ownership) 40%
        Other bank debt 10 to 15%
        FICA wage withholding 13%
        Other taxes 15%

        Only 20 to 25% of the family’s budget is free to buy the commodities being produced. This means that Say’s Law – the circular flow of income and spending between employers and their work force – is diverted to pay debt service, and also to pay including Social Security and Medicare taxes as a user fee instead of these services being paid for out of the general fiscal budget by progressive taxation falling mainly on what Adam Smith, John Stuart Mill and their Progressive Era followers urged: land rent, natural resource rent, monopoly rent, and luxuries.

        A Keynesian economist would point to excess saving as the problem. But debt repayment has changed the character of saving in today’s debt-ridden economies. In the 1930s, Keynes pointed to savings being a leakage from the economy’s circular flow. What he meant by “saving” was mainly non-spending – keeping income in bank accounts or other liquid or illiquid financial investment.

        But savings rates have risen since 2008 for quite a different reason. America’s recovery of savings rate from zero in 2007 is not a result of people building up saving for a rainy day. What the National Income and Product accounts report as “saving” is actually paying down debt. It is a negation of a negation.

        This is what debt deflation means. The antidote should be more government spending and larger deficits – as well as debt forgiveness.

        Bank lobbyists are urging just the opposite set of policies. They have implanted a false memory and a false economic theory blaming hyperinflation on deficit spending. The reality is that every hyperinflation in history has come from paying foreign debts, not domestic debts.

        Germany’s Weimar inflation resulted from the Reichsbank having to pay reparations to the Allied Powers. It sold German currency on the foreign exchange markets for sterling, francs and dollars – far beyond Germany’s ability to obtain foreign exchange by exporting. Germany had been stripped of its coal and steel production capacity and its ability to export was limited. So the currency plunged.

        Declining exchange rates caused import prices to rise. The general price level followed suit behind the umbrella effect of higher import prices. More money had to be printed to pay for transactions purposes at the higher price level. Every serious study of the German hyperinflation – and also those of France and, later, of Chile – shows the same sequence of causation from foreign debt payment to currency depreciation, rising domestic prices, and finally to new money creation.

        The German economy suffered from austerity imposed by over-indebtedness. The same was true of debt-strapped Third World economies from the 1960s onward under IMF austerity programs, and it is true of Eurozone countries today. Austerity and lower government spending did not make these economies more competitive. It worsened their balance of payments, and made their distribution of wealth and income more unequal as economies polarized between creditors and debtors.

        The policy lesson for today is that to avoid debt deflation, falling markets and unemployment, the economy needs to be revived. The way to do this is what was called for and indeed promised four years ago: a write-down of debts in keeping with the ability to pay.

        Once this debt overhead is addressed, tax reform is needed to prevent a debt bubble from recurring. A tax system that favors debt financing rather than equity, and that favors asset-price “capital” gains and windfall gains over wages and industrial profits earned by producing tangible output, has been largely to blame. Also needing reform is tax favoritism for the offshore fictitious accounting that has become increasingly unrealistic in recent years.

        Unless government fiscal policy addresses these issues, the U.S. economy will face the same kind of debt-deflation pressures and fiscal austerity that is now tearing the eurozone apart.

        *Remarks by Prof. Michael Hudson at The Atlantic’s Economy Summit, Washington DC, Wednesday, March 13, 2013

        http://michael-hudson.com/2013/03/go...ivate-debt-is/
        This is a great concise speech by Hudson but I disagree on two matters. I love everything else.

        First there is a threat of commodity price-inflation. That threat is an external oil price shock.

        And second government deficits do matter when they are being spent on the FIRE economy. This government/Fed reserve expansion of its balance sheet is what puts the US into a precarious position with external creditors where once they realize that the US economy cannot grow without debt based financing and net federal government spending must continue to increase then I believe that is what sets off the Janszen Scenario..... no?

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Hudson on the Question of Debt

          Housing (rent or home ownership) 40%
          Other bank debt 10 to 15%
          FICA wage withholding 13%
          Other taxes 15%
          Total = 83 %
          Add Health insurance ???
          New Total = ???

          Anyone have a link that provides these stats for other developed nations?

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Hudson on the Question of Debt

            He does mention hyperinflation comes from debt owed to foreigners. Isn't a large portion of U.S. debt owed to foreigners?


            Yes, but it's denominated in the currency it controls, unlike Weimar Germany, which owed debts denominated in gold. This changes the nature of the problem completely.

            Of course if the Fed ever ends up really monetizing debt (in the sense of ripping up the paper on its balance sheet, or rolling it over at maturity forever, which is equivalent), its like having handed money over to the Chinese. Paying Chinese for paper that you're going to rip up is a cash for trash swap deal. Which I do think is kind of problematic.
            Last edited by NCR85; March 13, 2013, 03:41 AM.
            "It's not the end of the world, but you can see it from here." - Deus Ex HR

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Hudson on the Question of Debt

              Originally posted by don View Post
              Hudson writes:
              However, the one kind of debt we are not worried about is government debt. That’s because governments have little problem paying it. They do not need to balance their budget with tax revenue, because their central bank can simply print the money. On balance, the overall public debt rarely needs to be paid down. As Adam Smith noted in The Wealth of Nations, no government in history ever has paid off its public debt.

              The problem is that “fiscal responsibility” is economically irresponsible, as far as full employment and economic recovery are concerned. less government spending shrinks the circular flow between the private sector’s producers and consumers. That is the essence of Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) that Steve Keen here, and Yves Smith in the earlier panel, have been writing about in our blogs.

              What really is responsible is for the government to spend enough money into the economy to keep employment and production thriving.
              To understand the implications of Hudson's ideas, consider a thought experiment. Suppose the government "printed" money and gave every person in the US $10 million? Dollar crash and Big inflation, right? Savers and retirees thrown under the bus.
              But that's OK because "The People" will be freed of their debt. He's just like Krugman in that regard.
              The reality is that there is a consequence to government debt . . . but Hudson is "not worried about government debt", so why should we? Ha!

              Germany’s Weimar inflation resulted from the Reichsbank having to pay reparations to the Allied Powers.

              Every serious study of the German hyperinflation – and also those of France and, later, of Chile – shows the same sequence of causation from foreign debt payment to currency depreciation, rising domestic prices, and finally to new money creation.

              Austerity and lower government spending did not make these economies more competitive. It worsened their balance of payments, and made their distribution of wealth and income more unequal as economies polarized between creditors and debtors.

              The policy lesson for today is that to avoid debt deflation, falling markets and unemployment, the economy needs to be revived. The way to do this is what was called for and indeed promised four years ago: a write-down of debts in keeping with the ability to pay.
              Government spending won't work. Austerity won't work.
              Has no one considered that there might be NO solution?

              In any event, here's what Vince Cate says about hyperinflation:
              Each case of hyperinflation is unique, so if you are looking for differences you will always find them. You need to understand the common characteristics. Hyperinflation happens because government debt gets over 80% of GNP and deficit gets over 40% of spending. It does not matter how you get into that situation. Hyperinflation works the same if you lose a foreign war, a civil war, a dictator goes crazy, a government with excessive foreign debt, nationalizing too many businesses, rampant corruption, productive collapse, excessive regulation, a regime change, too many taxpayers fleeing high taxes, a massive depression, or whatever. It just matters that the government is spending nearly twice what they get in taxes and has already borrowed more than is reasonable. When they are in this situation they can not borrow more, except from the central bank under their control. So they get the central bank to make money and "loan" it to them. When the reality is the only way they can pay back that "loan" from the central bank is by first getting another "loan" from the central bank you are probably headed for hyperinflation.
              raja
              Boycott Big Banks • Vote Out Incumbents

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Hudson on the Question of Debt

                Originally posted by raja View Post
                To understand the implications of Hudson's ideas, consider a thought experiment. Suppose the government "printed" money and gave every person in the US $10 million? Dollar crash and Big inflation, right? Savers and retirees thrown under the bus.
                But that's OK because "The People" will be freed of their debt. He's just like Krugman in that regard.
                The reality is that there is a consequence to government debt . . . but Hudson is "not worried about government debt", so why should we? Ha!


                Government spending won't work. Austerity won't work.
                Has no one considered that there might be NO solution?

                In any event, here's what Vince Cate says about hyperinflation:
                Each case of hyperinflation is unique, so if you are looking for differences you will always find them. You need to understand the common characteristics. Hyperinflation happens because government debt gets over 80% of GNP and deficit gets over 40% of spending. It does not matter how you get into that situation. Hyperinflation works the same if you lose a foreign war, a civil war, a dictator goes crazy, a government with excessive foreign debt, nationalizing too many businesses, rampant corruption, productive collapse, excessive regulation, a regime change, too many taxpayers fleeing high taxes, a massive depression, or whatever. It just matters that the government is spending nearly twice what they get in taxes and has already borrowed more than is reasonable. When they are in this situation they can not borrow more, except from the central bank under their control. So they get the central bank to make money and "loan" it to them. When the reality is the only way they can pay back that "loan" from the central bank is by first getting another "loan" from the central bank you are probably headed for hyperinflation.
                +100 - that was my first thought, too: why not just abolish private enterprise altogether, have the government print up whatever money is needed and give it to whomever it chooses? I suppose, in a perfect world populated by perfect people, who have perfect insight and planning, that might work. In the world in which I live, populated by greedy, sinful men and women, what results from unrestrained money creation is a feedback loop:

                1. Constituents like getting stuff that isn't necessarily good for the economy, like a kid who is left alone in a candy shop with the keys to the display cases. In order to stay in office, government gives people what they want, not what they need.
                2. The constituents want more and more of that stuff. In order to stay in office, government gives it to them. They don't, however, give it in a balanced fashion. Those who have more power/influence get more stuff.
                3. Those who are most powerful demand a bigger share of the money that's created. Since that's solely determined by the politicians that they, themselves, put into office, they get it.
                4. As more and more of the productive economy is gutted (since it's usually not in the government money stream), "real" things (e.g. energy, food, commodities) get more and more expensive. More and more money needs to be created just to stay even. Any attempt to level off money creation is perceived as "massive cuts in spending."
                5. Eventually, there aren't enough "real" things to go around at any price, and the system falls apart.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hudson Down Under

                  http://michael-hudson.com/wp-content....03.2013-2.mp3

                  audio interview

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Hudson on the Question of Debt

                    "Hyperinflation happens because government debt gets over 80% of GNP and deficit gets over 40% of spending."
                    What % are we at now?

                    Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Hudson on the Question of Debt

                      Originally posted by shiny! View Post
                      What % are we at now?
                      Public debt as a percentage of GDP is about 100%.

                      http://visual.ly/united-states-debt-...-gdp-1940-2012

                      Deficit as a percentage of spending is about 25%

                      http://www.usfederalbudget.us/

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Hudson on the Question of Debt

                        Originally posted by goodrich4bk View Post
                        Public debt as a percentage of GDP is about 100%.

                        http://visual.ly/united-states-debt-...-gdp-1940-2012

                        Deficit as a percentage of spending is about 25%

                        http://www.usfederalbudget.us/
                        It is improbable that the US experiences hyperinflation. I would assign the probability at less than 1%. We have too many mechanisms to stop a high inflation turning into hyperinflation.

                        The biggest one being 14000 tons of gold.

                        The MMT guys generally dont accept that sovereigns can default through inflation. Their theories arent completely true but they go a long way in describing how our modern money system operates.

                        By the way I don't think Hudson is a true MMT guy like Randall Wray for example.

                        Just as an FYI the MMT guys have been advising finance minister of Argentina. This could be one reason why they have taken their recent policy decisions.

                        Either way Argentina has enough export earnings and gold in their CB to halt any type of runaway inflation. I do not see them experiencing another debt restructuring unless it is purely a political choice like Russia in 98.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Hudson on the Question of Debt

                          Originally posted by RebbePete View Post
                          1. As more and more of the productive economy is gutted (since it's usually not in the government money stream), "real" things (e.g. energy, food, commodities) get more and more expensive. More and more money needs to be created just to stay even. Any attempt to level off money creation is perceived as "massive cuts in spending."
                          2. Eventually, there aren't enough "real" things to go around at any price, and the system falls apart.
                          If people are getting poorer as the result of a depressed economy, the solution is to create more wealth and bring them back to the "proper" wealth level.
                          The Keynesian idea is to print up some money to "stimulate" the economy. The problem is that it won't work in practice.

                          Say you've accumulated some excess wealth, and you make a loan to your nephew to start a business. If the business flourishes, wealth will have been created by spending -- the Keynsian idea.
                          But in the case of government spending, the government does not have any excess wealth to loan, so it just prints money to give away. This new money entering the economy cheapens the dollar, which redistributes money away from the savers and retirees. The wealth created by the new enterprise is lost due to the wealth stolen from one segment of the population.

                          Government doesn't create wealth . . . all it can do is redistribute wealth, and there always is a cost, because government operation requires operational expenditure (salaries, etc.) The government's tools of redistribution are taxation and legislation. Right now, these both favor the wealthy, and that's where the money redistribution is going.

                          I think Hudson's idea of correcting wealth inequality is good . . . as long as it doesn't go to far and is equitable. But his ideas of government spending are mistaken.
                          raja
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                          • #14
                            Re: Hudson on the Question of Debt

                            Originally posted by goodrich4bk View Post
                            Public debt as a percentage of GDP is about 100%.

                            http://visual.ly/united-states-debt-...-gdp-1940-2012

                            Deficit as a percentage of spending is about 25%

                            http://www.usfederalbudget.us/
                            If I'm reading it correctly, that 2nd link shows deficit as a percentage of spending to be 36% for the last two years.


                            Federal Budget for FY13
                            $ trillion nom
                            2011 2012 2013
                            Spending 3.6 3.8 3.8
                            Federal Deficit 1.3 1.3 0.9
                            Other Borrowing -0.1 0.3 0.3
                            Gross Federal Debt 14.8 16.4 17.5
                            source: actual budgeted estimated
                            Click for Budget Detail

                            raja
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                            • #15
                              Re: Hudson on the Question of Debt

                              Originally posted by raja View Post

                              Government doesn't create wealth . . . all it can do is redistribute wealth, and there always is a cost, because government operation requires operational expenditure (salaries, etc.) The government's tools of redistribution are taxation and legislation. Right now, these both favor the wealthy, and that's where the money redistribution is going.
                              I don't know how you can say that governments cannot create wealth. If a government takes money in, then uses it to fund industry that then creates a ROI greater than 0%, it has generated wealth. I am not saying it is the best way of doing things, but to me the difference between business and government is one largely of semantics in this regard. And I no more trust business than I do government.

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