Singapore Population Push

[ProdigyofZen]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...crash-too.html

"What has people so riled up? Well, people. The impetus for the Feb. 16 march is a report that the tiny island’s population may rise by as much as 30 percent to 6.9 million by 2030. This seems to be the government’s answer to the question of how to sustain prosperity in one of the most crowded and expensive cities in the world."

Singapore is pushing to increase it's population. One of the most interesting ways they are doing it is encouraging domestic married couples to procreate more.

They have National Night: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jxU89x78ac

They have this site: Heybaby http://www.heybaby.sg/havingchildren/baby_bonus.html

Where they encourage child birth and pay women who are lawfully married to have children.

This quote is very interesting: "My family completes me. They taught me to live, laugh and love. Without them I will have more money, more freedom and less responsibility. But my heart will be empty."

Simply amazing quote for the government to be sharing to its people.

What are they going to do with all those people on that tiny island?

[globaleconomicollaps]

Re: Singapore Population Push

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...crash-too.html

"What has people so riled up? Well, people. The impetus for the Feb. 16 march is a report that the tiny island’s population may rise by as much as 30 percent to 6.9 million by 2030. This seems to be the government’s answer to the question of how to sustain prosperity in one of the most crowded and expensive cities in the world."

Singapore is pushing to increase it's population. One of the most interesting ways they are doing it is encouraging domestic married couples to procreate more.

They have National Night: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jxU89x78ac

They have this site: Heybaby http://www.heybaby.sg/havingchildren/baby_bonus.html

Where they encourage child birth and pay women who are lawfully married to have children.

This quote is very interesting: "My family completes me. They taught me to live, laugh and love. Without them I will have more money, more freedom and less responsibility. But my heart will be empty."

Simply amazing quote for the government to be sharing to its people.

What are they going to do with all those people on that tiny island?

It is kind of odd. There is no shortage of people that want to move to Singapore. They canceled a program where you had to pay ten million Singapore dollars to gain permanent residency status because they were inundated. The property prices where skyrocketing.

[touchring]

Re: Singapore Population Push

It is kind of odd. There is no shortage of people that want to move to Singapore. They canceled a program where you had to pay ten million Singapore dollars to gain permanent residency status because they were inundated. The property prices where skyrocketing.

It's not odd, it's just like there are no shortage of people wanting to visit Disneyland, in fact tens of millions of people visit DisneyLand every year. Just like Disneyland where you get bored after a couple of days, after a couple of years, people get bored of Singapore because it is a small place, or found that working non-stop with no family life is not their cup of cake and leave.

Many who have left actually made quite a pile in the process because of currency conversions. For example, the Singapore dollar has appreciated significantly against the US dollar and British Pound over the last couple of years. So if you bought a property on arrival, after leaving, you can buy a bigger house back home, and maybe even an extra house to rent out. So there is an incentive to cash out and to leave.

95% of people that I know of that came to Singapore 10 years ago have left. Those that stayed behind are usually singles that don't intend to get married - Working round the clock keeps their minds occupied and sane, or have reasons not to return home - they might have been a convict or have family feuds back home.

Then there is the millionaire or billionaire category of people who move to Singapore because of low taxes and no estate duty. Singapore is a tax haven for the wealthy.

And just like Disneyland, you need to come out with new attractions and to market yourself to attract new people to replace those that left.

[GRG55]

Re: Singapore Population Push

...Then there is the millionaire or billionaire category of people who move to Singapore because of low taxes and no estate duty. Singapore is a tax haven for the wealthy...

...

Singapore is replacing Switzerland as the preferred jurisdiction for offshore accounts and residency status. After the pressure being put on Switzerland by the USA and EU to disclose account holders, and the leaks of client lists by (presumably) employees with an axe to grind, this shift has accelerated.

Dubai was vying for the same business, but after it blew up (led by the Ruling Family's own overleveraged business enterprises) and the Arab Spring, that destination has cooled off considerably.

[touchring]

Re: Singapore Population Push

Singapore is replacing Switzerland as the preferred jurisdiction for offshore accounts and residency status. After the pressure being put on Switzerland by the USA and EU to disclose account holders, and the leaks of client lists by (presumably) employees with an axe to grind, this shift has accelerated.

Dubai was vying for the same business, but after it blew up (led by the Ruling Family's own overleveraged business enterprises) and the Arab Spring, that destination has cooled off considerably.

Taxes are even lower in Dubai than Singapore. Property and cars are also much cheaper.

And from what I know, wages are higher and the work is more relaxed.

But then, there are no casinos and legalized prostitution and nightclubs. LOL

[GRG55]

Re: Singapore Population Push

Taxes are even lower in Dubai than Singapore. Property and cars are also much cheaper.

And from what I know, wages are higher and the work is more relaxed.

But then, there are no casinos and legalized prostitution and nightclubs. LOL

As everyone discovered in the aftermath of the Dubai version of the financial crisis, the "legal system" there leaves a great deal to be desired, and the corruption levels are still quite high.

Yes property is much cheaper, but your "ownership" of it is not nearly as well protected either.

Used high performance cars are dirt cheap throughout the Gulf, as is the cost of petrol, but the traffic is pretty bad so difficult to really get much enjoyment out of them. I stuck to a Land Cruiser when I lived in that region because I wanted something high, heavy and able to easily get over a curb or median to get to one of the rare open spaces to park during the day. If I went back now I'd just hire a driver...

[anthonydr2]

Re: Singapore Population Push

I lived in Singapore 2+ years, post marriage, pre kids.

Now we have kids and would love to return for another stint.

Its a beautiful and safe place to live.

My sense is the locals blame the expats for driving up the cost of living in the most desire able areas. On top of that the neighbors flaunting their 2 new Lamborghinis and new Ferrari probably irritates others. However, it wouldn't be one of the top places to live if they didn't seek to be a regional (to global) hub of business, finance. And they couldnt deliver on that without a large share of expats in a small country. Net, no tyranny....attractive place to live...a few jealous people (as everywhere) and more than a few who choose to be ostentatious in their display of wealth...

[touchring]

Re: Singapore Population Push

As everyone discovered in the aftermath of the Dubai version of the financial crisis, the "legal system" there leaves a great deal to be desired, and the corruption levels are still quite high.

Yes property is much cheaper, but your "ownership" of it is not nearly as well protected either.

Used high performance cars are dirt cheap throughout the Gulf, as is the cost of petrol, but the traffic is pretty bad so difficult to really get much enjoyment out of them. I stuck to a Land Cruiser when I lived in that region because I wanted something high, heavy and able to easily get over a curb or median to get to one of the rare open spaces to park during the day. If I went back now I'd just hire a driver...

Everything is good as long as credit is cheap and mortgage rate is 1% a year.

Just the commercial bank loans (excluding bonds, trusts, pawnshops and moneylenders) in Singapore is currently standing at almost half a trillion dollars. That's $100,000 in bank loans for every man, woman, child, elderly, and expat in Singapore. Compare that to the tiny $10 billion that Abu Dhabi gave to the emir of Dubai.

With half a trillion dollars to spend on just 270 sq miles, $1.8 billion for every square mile, you could create the best Disneyland in the world.

Of course, cheap credit to here to stay forever?? Isn't it?

LOL

[Jay]

Re: Singapore Population Push

What are they going to do with all those people on that tiny island?

Singapore thinks ahead and places its economy and future standard-of-living near the top of its goals. Despite what some misguided economists say, more people means more wealth. This population effect compounds too. People get stuck on this economic island mentality that if there are two people on an island, it means half as much for all. Reality doesn't work that way. The two people end up increasing each's standard of living by doing things and creating things one can not.

[touchring]

Re: Singapore Population Push

Singapore thinks ahead and places its economy and future standard-of-living near the top of its goals. Despite what some misguided economists say, more people means more wealth. This population effect compounds too. People get stuck on this economic island mentality that if there are two people on an island, it means half as much for all. Reality doesn't work that way. The two people end up increasing each's standard of living by doing things and creating things one can not.

More people definitely translates to more wealth, this theories applies even to the slums of Cairo. Throw in 20 million people into a city and you will have billionaires and big businesses even if 95% of the people earn only $2 a day because the other 5% can earn $100 a day living off the other 90% and the 1% that earns $10,000 a day. 5% of 20 million is 1 million - a very sizeable population with high disposable income. This is a no brainer economic policy. However, depending on the rate of increase in population, and how it is done, living standards may not increase for the average person.

Singapore's population increased from well over 4 million to 5 million within the span of 8 years. This translates to nearly 3% growth a year. At this rate, the population doubles in just 20-25 years.

Many countries such as South Korea, Japan and Taiwan managed to increase their standard of living in the last 20 years without increasing population at the rate of 3% a year. Is Mooncliff around? ;)

Then the other issue is what happens in a recession, bearing in mind that 40% of the population are foreigners and working expats. What will happen to the banks if expats that took up mortgages or personal loans decide to leave?

[Jay]

Re: Singapore Population Push

However, depending on the rate of increase in population, and how it is done, living standards may not increase for the average person.

Yes, in the short run at times, but in the long run, the history of mankind is more people means more knowledge and a better standard of living.

As bad as living in a slum may be, can you imagine living as a hunter-gatherer? That was a brutal existence.

Even those that wax poetically about an old school agrarian lifestyle should try it sometime. It isn't an easy life, especially if you do without all the inventions of the last 100 years. Can you imagine cutting enough wood by hand for your family to last the New England winter?

It takes time for knowledge to disseminate; and there will always be winners and losers in the short term.

[GRG55]

Re: Singapore Population Push

...Singapore is pushing to increase it's population. One of the most interesting ways they are doing it is encouraging domestic married couples to procreate more.


They have National Night: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jxU89x78ac


They have this site: Heybaby http://www.heybaby.sg/havingchildren/baby_bonus.html


Where they encourage child birth and pay women who are lawfully married to have children.


This quote is very interesting: "My family completes me. They taught me to live, laugh and love. Without them I will have more money, more freedom and less responsibility. But my heart will be empty."


Simply amazing quote for the government to be sharing to its people.


What are they going to do with all those people on that tiny island?

...Singapore's population increased from well over 4 million to 5 million within the span of 8 years. This translates to nearly 3% growth a year. At this rate, the population doubles in just 20-25 years...

Given the very high cost of living in Singapore, I am assuming that most of this increase is due to immigration. Do you have any stats that you can share that show how much is due to birth rates and how much due to immigration? Could it be that the government isn't so much interested in total population increase, but wants to see more of the increase coming from the national birth rate (so the foreigners don't overrun the place)?

...Many countries such as South Korea, Japan and Taiwan managed to increase their standard of living in the last 20 years without increasing population at the rate of 3% a year. Is Mooncliff around? ;)

Then the other issue is what happens in a recession, bearing in mind that 40% of the population are foreigners and working expats. What will happen to the banks if expats that took up mortgages or personal loans decide to leave?

Expats tend to leave en masse when there is a threat to personal security (e.g. Saudi Arabia in the run-up to Gulf War I), or the perception of permanent economic decline (Ireland or Dubai when the bubbles popped, and parts of the Middle East today with chronic "Arab Spring" troubles such as Bahrain). In my time abroad my observation has been that professional expats generally tend to fare better than lesser skilled and experienced nationals during short term recessions...

[touchring]

Re: Singapore Population Push

Given the very high cost of living in Singapore, I am assuming that most of this increase is due to immigration. Do you have any stats that you can share that show how much is due to birth rates and how much due to immigration?

Singapore has the lowest fertility rate in the world.

The CIA 2012 rate is 0.78 child birth / Woman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...fertility_rate)

In comparison, the rate for Japan is 1.39 child birth / Woman. The rate for the US stands at 2.06.

As we know, a rate of at least 2 is required to replace population. The natural fertility rate for Singapore can't even replace a single spouse.

http://www.singstat.gov.sg/stats/the...brief2012a.pdf



The number of single citizens in Singapore is among the highest if not the highest in the world.





Between the age group 30-34, 44.2% of males and 31% of females are singles and have not married.

Between the age group 35-39, 24.2% of men and 20.2% of females are single and have not married.

The younger generation of Singapore citizens born after the 1980s are not marrying!

For those of us who have pets, if the animals don't breed, you know something is wrong. The enclosure is too small. If you put 100 mice into a small cage, they won't breed. They will be eating each other instead. Or you have been disturbing them constantly that they don't breed.

Given the very high cost of living in Singapore, I am assuming that most of this increase is due to immigration. Do you have any stats that you can share that show how much is due to birth rates and how much due to immigration? Could it be that the government isn't so much interested in total population increase, but wants to see more of the increase coming from the national birth rate (so the foreigners don't overrun the place)?

There are 3 goals for increasing population.

The first of which is to overcome economic stagnation. Even though there's a lot of publicity on Singapore, because of state funded adverts/PRs and the casinos, you will notice that there isn't much private sector success stories.

But the problem is that in order to have immigration, you must have jobs. How do you create jobs when industries are in decline?

For this, Singapore learns from Ben Bernanke and Greenspan - by expanding credit to fund domestic consumption and capital investment. This method isn't sustainable as we can see from last year when bank lending rose 15% while economic growth was only a lethargic 1.5%. It takes $10 of credit to create just $1 of GDP. Also a note that the GDP growth of 1.5% is gross and not per capita. Singapore imports 100,000-150,000 new immigrants every year. In other words, real GDP growth per capita last year is zero or could even be negative.

Nov 2012 Bank lending year on year - http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stori...245279/1/.html
2012 Singapore economic growth forecast - http://www.asiaone.com/A1Business/Ge...16-383776.html

From 2008 to 2012 2Q, total bank loans in Singapore increased from $272 billions to $452 billions, a 66% jump in 4 years (this is statistics from the Singapore government - http://www.singstat.gov.sg/stats/the...ss/essa135.pdf) I believe that the bank lending statistics excludes other forms of lendings such as pawnshops, bonds, private money lenders.

The second goal is to support the biggest mortgage lender in Singapore, the Central Provident Fund, a compulsory comprehensive savings plan for citizens and Singapore permanent residents, which primarily lends out to individuals to purchase real estate. And if you have guessed correctly, this "fund" will lose money if real estate collapses. Immigration helps to support the property sector.

The third goal is not publicized but in my opinion is the most important goal - getting votes from new citizens.

[touchring]

Re: Singapore Population Push

Yes, in the short run at times, but in the long run, the history of mankind is more people means more knowledge and a better standard of living.

As bad as living in a slum may be, can you imagine living as a hunter-gatherer? That was a brutal existence.

Even those that wax poetically about an old school agrarian lifestyle should try it sometime. It isn't an easy life, especially if you do without all the inventions of the last 100 years. Can you imagine cutting enough wood by hand for your family to last the New England winter?

It takes time for knowledge to disseminate; and there will always be winners and losers in the short term.

I believe I may know where you're coming from. You're using the example of the USA, except that Singapore and the US has got different political system and culture since the beginning.

Taking China for example, China has 1.4 billion people, but how many home grown great companies and products has China made in the past 200 years? In comparison, South Korea has only got 60 million people, and while the Koreans have not made revolutionary inventions such as the airplane or refrigerators, they have certainly made good phones and consumer products, and Korean TV and cultural export is very popular in Asia, which you would probably know since you lived here once.

The other point is that not all people are equal. One Steve Jobs or one Larry Page or one Warren Buffett is worth more than all the 2 million foreign expats in Singapore combined. But will Steve Jobs or Larry Page want to come to Singapore? Even if Steve Jobs were born in Singapore, he'll be in and out of jail.

My friend once had an Indonesian maid (you may have one yourself when you were in Singapore), who told her that Indonesia is different from Singapore because Indonesia is a democracy. I wouldn't have even imagine a housekeeping saying something like that!

The Singapore model doesn't even appeal to an Indonesian maid, let alone Steve Jobs.

Of course, one may argue that Singapore is safe place as compared to a democracy such as the USA. But there are other places than the US with a similar political system, such as Japan, Canada, Australia, Sweden, Taiwan, South Korea, countless other examples, where it is safe. As a matter of fact, pro-government supporters like to use the example of the US, "where women can be raped while walking in the streets, murders happen every minute", to show the result of democracy.

[NCR85]

Re: Singapore Population Push

Unemployment Rate (SA)was 1.8% in Dec 2012

http://www.singstat.gov.sg/

Pretty impressive for a place with the population of Denmark.

I guess a labor shortage like that brings it's own set of problems, though. So it makes sense that they would look to draw in more immigrants.