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  • The Long Fall: A Market Without Parachutes

    The Long Fall: A Market Without Parachutes by Mike Whitney

    America is finished, washed up, kaput. Foreign investors and central banks around the world have lost confidence in US markets and are headed for the exits. The dollar is sinking, the country is insolvent, and its leaders are barking mad. Investors are voting with their feet. They've had enough. Capital is flowing to China and the Far East in a torrent. It's "sayonara" Manhattan and "Hello" Tiananmen Square.

    Want some advice? Learn Mandarin.

    The dollar fell another 2 per cent last night, gold soared to $840 per ounce, oil topped $98 per barrel, General Motors reported a $39 billion loss after the market closed on Tuesday, the real estate market continued its downward slide, and the major investment banks are marching in lock-step towards bankruptcy.

    The news is all bad. The nation's economic foundation is in shambles. US credibility is shot. Bush and Greenspan have put us on the road to ruin. Now their work is done. We're flat broke.

    The catalogue of fiscal ailments now facing the country is too long to list. We'd need a ledger the size of a small encyclopedia. There's been a stampede away from the dollar even though it's already lost over 60 per cent of its value since Bush took office and even though central banks around the world will lose their shirts if it collapses. They don't care. They're getting out while they can.

    Cheng Siwei, the vice chairman of China's National People's Congress, announced yesterday that China would continue to diversify its $1.4 trillion reserves away from the dollar to "stronger currencies" like the euro. "Strong currencies"; isn't that Paulson's line? Siwei's comments ignited a firestorm in the currency markets triggering a big blow-off of the greenback. The poor dollar has no place to go now but down, and it's on a greased pole to the bottom. With consumer spending paralyzed by the decline in home equity and frozen wages, and the banks "stuffed to the gills" with over a trillion dollars of mortgage-backed sludge; the prognosis for the hobbled dollar is looking grimmer by the day. The bulging trade deficits and dwindling foreign inflows haven't helped either. The greenback has suddenly become the global pariah; all it needs is a leper's rattle and a tin cup.
    .
    .
    .
    The global markets have never seen a financial typhoon of this magnitude before. Mortgage lenders, homeowners, banks, hedge funds, bond insurers, etc. will all either go under or feel the sting of a slumping market.

    Many of the major investment banks are already broke; it's clear from their own reporting. Charles Hugh Smith sums it up like this in his recent article "Empire of Debt: The Great Unraveling":

    "If their bad bets were marked to market, Citicorp and Merrill Lynch would be declared insolvent. Why? Because they are insolvent--right now. The meaning of insolvency is straightforward: their losses exceed their capital. Recall that these firms list assets of $100 billion (or whatever) but their actual net capital is on the order of 2.5 per cent to 5 per cent---a mere sliver of their stated assets. In other words: a 5 per cent loss of their stated assets wipes them out..The game is now over, and the players shuffling losses can only last a few more days or weeks."


  • #2
    Re: The Long Fall: A Market Without Parachutes

    again, again, again. we read the same views over and over.

    the game is clear: stretch out the recognition of losses while inflating away their salience.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: The Long Fall: A Market Without Parachutes

      Originally posted by jk View Post
      again, again, again. we read the same views over and over.

      the game is clear: stretch out the recognition of losses while inflating away their salience.
      oh, you want me to rant about whitey?

      "the usa sucks. blah, blah, blah. derivatives = bad. blah, blah, blah. china is the future. learn madarin. waaaaaaah!"

      puuuleeeease!

      china's a police state with a couple of dozen massive cities surrounded both thousands of dirt-poor shitholes. whitey is like a lefty rush limbaugh, pandering to his audience. me... i'm not a whitey dittohead.

      was googling around for some recession predictions and came across this one...

      http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/4326

      search for "recession"

      reading it over it made me think why itulip is like reading the same thing over... the present feels like i've already been here. deja vu!

      that said, the addition of hudson shook things up. you know some new minds to introduce us to to expand our thinking? i've learned loads from grg55.

      what do you think of this australian guy john craig? itulip has published his stuff a couple of times. his take on china is interesting, even if his web site is totally unreadable...

      Could China Generate a Financial 'Tsunami'? Though a currency re-alignment, which seems to be the basis for the federal Treasurer's concerns [1], might not be the trigger, his warning about a financial / economic 'tsunami' originating in China should probably not be taken as lightly as the various observers quoted in the above article imply. Likewise there does seem to be some reason to doubt:
      • the optimism expressed by BHP [1] and the Chinese Government [1] that China's rapid growth can continue in the face of a serious US downturn;
      • Mark Tierney's (Macquarie Bank) suggestion about a new Copernican revolution (ie that the world economy does not revolve around the US).
      Firstly, the credit-crunch triggered by US sub-prime mortgage losses seems likely to have greater impact than has yet been revealed (eg perhaps triggering tax increases to meet public spending demands in US in the face of tighter credit), while other 'indigenous' financial crises could emerge elsewhere (eg in Eastern Europe). A few recent articles the present writer has encountered suggesting such wider ramifications are mentioned in Financial Market Instability: A Many Sided Story. All of these imply greater constraints on global growth.
      Secondly, it seems likely that the world economy has revolved around the strength of the US financial system even more than it depended on US demand. Rapid export-driven economic growth in countries such as China has has not only depended on the US running a large current account deficit, but even more on the ability of a strong US financial system to find productive uses for the US's large offsetting capital account surplus. China's economic model (like that of Japan before it) has allowed rapid economic growth by coordinating economic activity through social relationships amongst elites - rather than by concern for return on capital. This model only works - without running the risk of a catastrophic financial crisis such as occurred in many parts of Asia in 1997 - if such countries have a current account surplus (see Financial Imbalances). Economic weakness elsewhere would make this impossible, unless China's growth also slowed dramatically.
      Thirdly, the risk of a financial crisis originating in China is real. For example, China's growth appears to be being driven largely by investment with limited concern on the Chinese side for return on investment [1], and a risk of weak demand for the products of that investment. Large foreign capital inflows to China [1] (by investors now seeking to reduce $US exposure [1]) could be the 'straw that breaks the camel's back' - given the bubbles that already seem to exist in (say) property markets.
      The development of institutions that are more able than the IMF and WTO to create ne

      http://cpds.apana.org.au/Teams/Archi...ms.htm#Tsunami

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: The Long Fall: A Market Without Parachutes

        Originally posted by metalman View Post
        oh, you want me to rant about whitey?

        "the usa sucks. blah, blah, blah. derivatives = bad. blah, blah, blah. china is the future. learn madarin. waaaaaaah!"

        puuuleeeease!

        china's a police state with a couple of dozen massive cities surrounded both thousands of dirt-poor shitholes. whitey is like a lefty rush limbaugh, pandering to his audience. me... i'm not a whitey dittohead.
        i think there's something significant in writing about "whitey" when the guy's name is whitNey. [i really do. there's an ethnic/racial undertone to what's happening in the world. i just hope it stays an undertone.]

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: The Long Fall: A Market Without Parachutes

          Originally posted by jk View Post
          i think there's something significant in writing about "whitey" when the guy's name is whitNey. [i really do. there's an ethnic/racial undertone to what's happening in the world. i just hope it stays an undertone.]
          i assume you're kidding. interesting you pull that out of all that i wrote, ignoring everything else. whitney, whitey, whiney, whatever. ever hear of James Bulger? what do you think of john craig?

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: The Long Fall: A Market Without Parachutes

            Originally posted by metalman View Post
            oh, you want me to rant about whitey?

            "the usa sucks. blah, blah, blah. derivatives = bad. blah, blah, blah. china is the future. learn madarin. waaaaaaah!"

            puuuleeeease!

            china's a police state with a couple of dozen massive cities surrounded both thousands of dirt-poor shitholes. whitey is like a lefty rush limbaugh, pandering to his audience. me... i'm not a whitey dittohead.

            was googling around for some recession predictions and came across this one...

            http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/4326

            search for "recession"

            reading it over it made me think why itulip is like reading the same thing over... the present feels like i've already been here. deja vu!

            that said, the addition of hudson shook things up. you know some new minds to introduce us to to expand our thinking? i've learned loads from grg55.

            what do you think of this australian guy john craig? itulip has published his stuff a couple of times. his take on china is interesting, even if his web site is totally unreadable...

            Could China Generate a Financial 'Tsunami'? Though a currency re-alignment, which seems to be the basis for the federal Treasurer's concerns [1], might not be the trigger, his warning about a financial / economic 'tsunami' originating in China should probably not be taken as lightly as the various observers quoted in the above article imply. Likewise there does seem to be some reason to doubt:
            • the optimism expressed by BHP [1] and the Chinese Government [1] that China's rapid growth can continue in the face of a serious US downturn;
            • Mark Tierney's (Macquarie Bank) suggestion about a new Copernican revolution (ie that the world economy does not revolve around the US).
            Firstly, the credit-crunch triggered by US sub-prime mortgage losses seems likely to have greater impact than has yet been revealed (eg perhaps triggering tax increases to meet public spending demands in US in the face of tighter credit), while other 'indigenous' financial crises could emerge elsewhere (eg in Eastern Europe). A few recent articles the present writer has encountered suggesting such wider ramifications are mentioned in Financial Market Instability: A Many Sided Story. All of these imply greater constraints on global growth.
            Secondly, it seems likely that the world economy has revolved around the strength of the US financial system even more than it depended on US demand. Rapid export-driven economic growth in countries such as China has has not only depended on the US running a large current account deficit, but even more on the ability of a strong US financial system to find productive uses for the US's large offsetting capital account surplus. China's economic model (like that of Japan before it) has allowed rapid economic growth by coordinating economic activity through social relationships amongst elites - rather than by concern for return on capital. This model only works - without running the risk of a catastrophic financial crisis such as occurred in many parts of Asia in 1997 - if such countries have a current account surplus (see Financial Imbalances). Economic weakness elsewhere would make this impossible, unless China's growth also slowed dramatically.
            Thirdly, the risk of a financial crisis originating in China is real. For example, China's growth appears to be being driven largely by investment with limited concern on the Chinese side for return on investment [1], and a risk of weak demand for the products of that investment. Large foreign capital inflows to China [1] (by investors now seeking to reduce $US exposure [1]) could be the 'straw that breaks the camel's back' - given the bubbles that already seem to exist in (say) property markets.
            The development of institutions that are more able than the IMF and WTO to create ne

            http://cpds.apana.org.au/Teams/Archi...ms.htm#Tsunami
            I have to admit that I "switched off" after reading Whitney's opening line too.

            metalman: You're right, Craig's website is tough to work through and I need some time to navigate through and read a bit more of his stuff before rendering an opinion on your question.

            However, I think we could really benefit from any first hand knowledge and useful insights from on the ground in China/Australia/SE Asia. jk started a thread that I thought was a great idea, and we did get some feedback (I remember one Australian based member confirming first hand from his business how razor thin the Chinese manufacturing margins are - which was a useful bit of data I thought) but seems to have petered out. I tend to pay particular attention to first hand stuff, like EJ's interview with GaveKal, and especially where it involves people having their own businesses, money and time at risk, like C1ue's involvement with Russia. Wonder what we can do to get more people with informed views out of SE Asia region?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: The Long Fall: A Market Without Parachutes

              Originally posted by metalman View Post
              i assume you're kidding. interesting you pull that out of all that i wrote, ignoring everything else. whitney, whitey, whiney, whatever. ever hear of James Bulger? what do you think of john craig?
              i wasn't kidding. [i'm not accusing you of racism - sorry if there was that implication - but i do think there's an undercurrent of racism in a lot of writing about the dangers of the emergence of asia, including whitey-whitney's.] i pulled that out because it came first. i just went over to read the smirkingchimp piece you linked to, and indeed it was really prescient. so i just got back and found this new post. i've never heard of bulger or craig so i don't think anything about them. now i'll read the rest of your penultimate post.
              Last edited by jk; November 10, 2007, 12:17 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: The Long Fall: A Market Without Parachutes

                Originally posted by metalman View Post
                that said, the addition of hudson shook things up. you know some new minds to introduce us to to expand our thinking? i've learned loads from grg55.

                what do you think of this australian guy john craig? itulip has published his stuff a couple of times. his take on china is interesting, even if his web site is totally unreadable...

                Could China Generate a Financial 'Tsunami'? Though a currency re-alignment, which seems to be the basis for the federal Treasurer's concerns [1], might not be the trigger, his warning about a financial / economic 'tsunami' originating in China should probably not be taken as lightly as the various observers quoted in the above article imply. Likewise there does seem to be some reason to doubt:
                • the optimism expressed by BHP [1] and the Chinese Government [1] that China's rapid growth can continue in the face of a serious US downturn;
                • Mark Tierney's (Macquarie Bank) suggestion about a new Copernican revolution (ie that the world economy does not revolve around the US).
                Firstly, the credit-crunch triggered by US sub-prime mortgage losses seems likely to have greater impact than has yet been revealed (eg perhaps triggering tax increases to meet public spending demands in US in the face of tighter credit), while other 'indigenous' financial crises could emerge elsewhere (eg in Eastern Europe). A few recent articles the present writer has encountered suggesting such wider ramifications are mentioned in Financial Market Instability: A Many Sided Story. All of these imply greater constraints on global growth.
                Secondly, it seems likely that the world economy has revolved around the strength of the US financial system even more than it depended on US demand. Rapid export-driven economic growth in countries such as China has has not only depended on the US running a large current account deficit, but even more on the ability of a strong US financial system to find productive uses for the US's large offsetting capital account surplus. China's economic model (like that of Japan before it) has allowed rapid economic growth by coordinating economic activity through social relationships amongst elites - rather than by concern for return on capital. This model only works - without running the risk of a catastrophic financial crisis such as occurred in many parts of Asia in 1997 - if such countries have a current account surplus (see Financial Imbalances). Economic weakness elsewhere would make this impossible, unless China's growth also slowed dramatically.
                Thirdly, the risk of a financial crisis originating in China is real. For example, China's growth appears to be being driven largely by investment with limited concern on the Chinese side for return on investment [1], and a risk of weak demand for the products of that investment. Large foreign capital inflows to China [1] (by investors now seeking to reduce $US exposure [1]) could be the 'straw that breaks the camel's back' - given the bubbles that already seem to exist in (say) property markets.
                The development of institutions that are more able than the IMF and WTO to create ne

                http://cpds.apana.org.au/Teams/Archi...ms.htm#Tsunami
                michael hudson indeed shook things up by adding the "fire economy" model to our thinking. i think the next step is to look more at how the fire economy touches and interacts with the p/c economy. we often talk about them as if they are separate worlds, but of course they are not. in fact, ej's recession prediction is really based on a notion of how fire problems are transmitted to the p/c economy.

                i read the rest of your post and followed the link to discover that it was craig's web site from which the excerpt was extracted. i read craig as best i could for several minutes. i put it this way because i find him a very poor writer, and thus feel like it's hard work to read his material. as best as i could tell, everything he said was stuff i thought was important and relevant, but also stuff i had read elsewhere, including in ej's and others' posts here, including your own. he may have said something new and valuable, but if so i couldn't read his piece thoroughly enough to find it. do you think he's got something special to say?


                ps:
                Originally posted by craig
                China's economic model (like that of Japan before it) has allowed rapid economic growth by coordinating economic activity through social relationships amongst elites - rather than by concern for return on capital. This model only works - without running the risk of a catastrophic financial crisis such as occurred in many parts of Asia in 1997 - if such countries have a current account surplus
                i don't follow this reasoning. it seems to me that the model still admits of the possibility of a financial crisis, e.g. because of all the uncollectible loans to the state operated enterprises, even in the presence of a current account surplus.
                Last edited by jk; November 10, 2007, 12:06 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: The Long Fall: A Market Without Parachutes

                  Originally posted by jk View Post
                  i wasn't kidding. [i'm not accusing you of racism - sorry if there was that implication - but i do think there's an undercurrent of racism in a lot of writing about the dangers of the emergence of asia, including whitey-whitney's.] i pulled that out because it came first. i just went over to read the smirkingchimp piece you linked to, and indeed it was really prescient. so i just got back and found this new post. i've never heard of bulger or craig so i don't think anything about them. now i'll read the rest of your penultimate post.
                  ok, i took it the wrong way. no problem.

                  agree 100% on the racism toward chinese issue. whitney does come across as chino phobic. what's scary is how popular that is. i'm also seeing good ol' fashion antisemitism creeping into criticism of wall street and bankers as this shit unravels. that's bound to get worse. "international bankers" has long been code for "jew" in certain gold bug circles, and a fair amount of criticism of fiat and greenspan has antisemetic undercurrent. when times get tough, the ugly old meme comes back to life...

                  http://memes.org/tags/jews-run-holly...nd-wall-street

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: The Long Fall: A Market Without Parachutes

                    Originally posted by metalman View Post
                    ok, i took it the wrong way. no problem.

                    agree 100% on the racism toward chinese issue. whitney does come across as chino phobic. what's scary is how popular that is. i'm also seeing good ol' fashion antisemitism creeping into criticism of wall street and bankers as this shit unravels. that's bound to get worse. "international bankers" has long been code for "jew" in certain gold bug circles, and a fair amount of criticism of fiat and greenspan has antisemetic undercurrent. when times get tough, the ugly old meme comes back to life...

                    http://memes.org/tags/jews-run-holly...nd-wall-street
                    checked out the 10 conspiracy memes and it's hard to believe anyone believes any of them, except - of course- for
                    Lizard-People Run the World

                    i haven't noticed the anti-semitic one much more than the usual baseline, but perhaps i don't visit the right websites.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: The Long Fall: A Market Without Parachutes

                      Originally posted by jk View Post
                      checked out the 10 conspiracy memes and it's hard to believe anyone believes any of them, except - of course- for
                      Lizard-People Run the World

                      i haven't noticed the anti-semitic one much more than the usual baseline, but perhaps i don't visit the right websites.
                      ever been to daily reckoning forums?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: The Long Fall: A Market Without Parachutes

                        Originally posted by metalman View Post
                        ever been to daily reckoning forums?
                        no. and given the context here, i haven't developed a sudden urge to now.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: The Long Fall: A Market Without Parachutes

                          The world is not ending. I know there is a strong awareness on this forum about the mistakes the US is making and our potential for decline. but as I pointed out on a different thread, the dynamic is not so much the decline of the west as it is the rise of the east.

                          I would like to think we remain clear eyed realists about this and understand that the other 6 billion people around the world have the same hopes and ambitions we do. This is perfectly legitimate and is the responsibility of political and business leaders to feed this desire the best way possible. To see only disaster does a diservice to all involved.

                          As for the decline of the west, I remember we had a lively discussion a while back about the labor cost advantage enjoyed by China with one person saying in exasperation, "we don't make anything anymore"


                          Please note on this link a summary of the top exports from the US to ROW. I think you may be surprised at what we don't make anymore.


                          http://tse.export.gov/NTDChartDispla...-11-10-16-40-8
                          Greg

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: The Long Fall: A Market Without Parachutes

                            Originally posted by GRG55 View Post
                            I have to admit that I "switched off" after reading Whitney's opening line too.

                            metalman: You're right, Craig's website is tough to work through and I need some time to navigate through and read a bit more of his stuff before rendering an opinion on your question.

                            However, I think we could really benefit from any first hand knowledge and useful insights from on the ground in China/Australia/SE Asia. jk started a thread that I thought was a great idea, and we did get some feedback (I remember one Australian based member confirming first hand from his business how razor thin the Chinese manufacturing margins are - which was a useful bit of data I thought) but seems to have petered out. I tend to pay particular attention to first hand stuff, like EJ's interview with GaveKal, and especially where it involves people having their own businesses, money and time at risk, like C1ue's involvement with Russia. Wonder what we can do to get more people with informed views out of SE Asia region?
                            respecting the wishes of others not to make a lot of drastic changes here, but... i'd like to see per-geo region threads for each topic, and (ugh!) maybe cut down the forums/topics a bit? fewer forums, more topical threads, that is.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: The Long Fall: A Market Without Parachutes

                              Originally posted by jk View Post
                              michael hudson indeed shook things up by adding the "fire economy" model to our thinking. i think the next step is to look more at how the fire economy touches and interacts with the p/c economy. we often talk about them as if they are separate worlds, but of course they are not. in fact, ej's recession prediction is really based on a notion of how fire problems are transmitted to the p/c economy.

                              i read the rest of your post and followed the link to discover that it was craig's web site from which the excerpt was extracted. i read craig as best i could for several minutes. i put it this way because i find him a very poor writer, and thus feel like it's hard work to read his material. as best as i could tell, everything he said was stuff i thought was important and relevant, but also stuff i had read elsewhere, including in ej's and others' posts here, including your own. he may have said something new and valuable, but if so i couldn't read his piece thoroughly enough to find it. do you think he's got something special to say?


                              ps: i don't follow this reasoning. it seems to me that the model still admits of the possibility of a financial crisis, e.g. because of all the uncollectible loans to the state operated enterprises, even in the presence of a current account surplus.
                              thanks for looking at his site and for the feedback. he writes these looooooong pieces that go on forever and have no apparent structure, but he is an official in australia and seems to have unique knowledge of asia.

                              as for the fire econ, i remember hudson saying that the fire economy is managed as "completely separate" from the p/c econ from a fed policy standpoint. i never understood how that can be. an exaggeration for affect?

                              Comment

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