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2012 W2 - Box 12

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  • 2012 W2 - Box 12

    By ROBERT PEAR

    WASHINGTON — As workers open their W-2 forms this month, many will see a new box with information on the total cost of employer-sponsored health insurance coverage. To some, it will be a surprise, perhaps even a shock.


    Workers often have little idea how much they and their employers are paying for coverage. In many cases, economists say, workers give up cash compensation to get and keep health benefits.


    The disclosures, required by the 2010 health care law, are meant to make workers more cost-conscious. Health benefits are still tax-free. But labor unions and employer groups say it could be easier to tax them in the future, now that employers must report their value to the government.


    The new information appears in Box 12 of the standard W-2 form, with a two-letter code, DD. The box shows the “cost of employer-sponsored health coverage.” And that amount is not taxable, the Internal Revenue Service says on the back of the form.


    Jay J. Makled, a union steward for the United Automobile Workers at the Ford plant in Dearborn, Mich., described his reaction after seeing that his health coverage cost nearly $16,000 last year: “It’s quite expensive. I was surprised to see how much the company was paying for that benefit.”


    Hourly employees represented by the union there said they generally did not pay any of the premium.


    The number on the W-2 form is supposed to reflect the part of the cost paid by the employer and the part paid by the employee.


    Prof. Nicole Huberfeld, an expert on health law at the University of Kentucky, who received her W-2 form on Monday, said, “Most people who get health insurance from their employers have no idea how much it costs.”


    “People are often shocked when they see the cost, $12,000 to $16,000 a year,” Ms. Huberfeld said. “Many Americans believe this is something they get free. But employers pay lower wages because they provide insurance.”


    In 2012, according to an annual survey by the Kaiser Family Foundation, premiums for employer-sponsored health insurance averaged $5,615 a year for single coverage and $15,745 for family coverage. Over five years, the costs have increased 25 percent for individual coverage and 30 percent for family coverage.


    “Health coverage is a big piece of people’s income and a large part of the social welfare budget,” said C. Eugene Steuerle, a tax economist at the Urban Institute. “But the benefits are not taxable, and most of the spending is hidden, so we don’t consider the trade-offs. If we want to get control of health care costs, people have to be aware of them.”


    That is the goal of the disclosure requirement, which was proposed by a bipartisan group of senators: two Republicans, Charles E. Grassley of Iowa and Michael B. Enzi of Wyoming, and two Democrats, Max Baucus of Montana and Ron Wyden of Oregon.


    Congress acted after Peter R. Orszag, then the director of the Congressional Budget Office, told lawmakers: “The economic evidence is overwhelming, the theory is overwhelming, that when your firm pays for your health insurance, you actually pay through reduced take-home pay. The firm is not giving that to you for free.”


    The tax-free treatment of employer-provided health benefits is the largest tax break in the tax code, costing the government roughly $180 billion a year in lost revenue, or 80 percent more than the home mortgage interest deduction, according to the administration.


    Katie W. Mahoney, the executive director of health policy at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, said, “It’s useful for employees to know the value of coverage their employers provide.” But she said some employers worried that reporting the benefit on the W-2 form could lead to taxing the benefit.


    “That’s not the intent of the current requirement,” Ms. Mahoney said. “But once the information is collected by the government, it’s very easy for another administration to have a different intent.”


    An employee of the A.F.L.-C.I.O. whose health coverage was listed as costing more than $20,000 said: “That knocks my socks off. When I saw the number, my eyes popped out. I appreciate my employer all the more.”


    The employee said he had been told not to discuss the cost publicly because the union did not want to suggest that some employees had “Cadillac coverage.”


    An employer that fails to comply with the reporting requirement could be subject to penalties of $200 per W-2 form, up to a maximum of $3 million, tax lawyers said.


    Employers are exempt from the reporting obligation if they are required to file fewer than 250 W-2 forms, the I.R.S. said. That could change, but the agency said employers would be given at least six months’ notice.


    and in related news (file under Term Limits . . .)


    No Pay? Little Sacrifice for Many in Congress

    By JEREMY W. PETERS

    WASHINGTON — In principle, it sounds self-sacrificing, even noble: Congress swears off collecting its paychecks until it passes a budget.

    But behind the “no budget, no pay” proposal, which the House passed last week when it voted to temporarily extend the debt limit, is also a basic reality: many of those who support the concept are so wealthy that their Congressional paychecks represent little more than a rounding error.

    Take Representative Dave Camp, a Michigan Republican who led the charge on the measure in the House. He has a net worth between $3.8 million and $9.7 million, according to an analysis of his most recent financial disclosure by the Center for Responsive Politics.

    That is not exactly a fortune befitting a Rockefeller or a Kennedy, but it is more than enough to cushion any discomfort he might feel from missing a few paydays. Many of the other lawmakers who have championed “no budget, no pay,” both Republicans and Democrats, are similarly wealthy.

    Congress, for all its democratic trappings, has long been richer than a typical collection of 535 Americans. But the gap between the financial standing of members and the population as a whole has grown in recent decades, analysts of financial disclosure forms say.

    As many ordinary Americans have struggled to get by in recent years, members of Congress were largely insulated from the economic downturn, based on their net worth. The median net worth of American households is $66,740, while for the 535 members of Congress it is about $966,000, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. Congressional lawmakers earn at least $174,000 a year.

    The Democratic co-sponsor of the “no budget, no pay” bill in the Senate, Joe Manchin III of West Virginia, is worth between $3.6 million and $11.7 million, according to the center’s tallies. The other Senate co-sponsor, Dean Heller, Republican of Nevada, is worth less but is still doing just fine, with a net worth of between $2.8 million and $3.4 million. The Senate may pass the measure as early as Wednesday.

    When the debt limit extension passed the House last week, the chamber’s three wealthiest members voted yes: Michael McCaul, Republican of Texas (net worth estimated at $500 million, from Clear Channel Communications, founded by his wife’s family); Darrell Issa, Republican of California ($480 million, from Viper car alarms); and Jared Polis, Democrat of Colorado ($215 million, from the greeting card Web site Blue Mountain).

    Representative Scott Rigell, Republican of Virginia, also pushed for the provision. His estimated net worth is as high as $52 million, and he returns 15 percent of his Congressional paycheck each year.

    As moneyed as Congress is these days, some members would feel the pinch if they stopped receiving their paychecks. Senator Jeff Flake, Republican of Arizona, has a reported net worth of no higher than $300,000, making him one of the few nonmillionaires to support the bill. That also makes him the fifth-poorest member of the Senate, according to the figures from the Center for Responsive Politics.

  • #2
    Re: 2012 W2 - Box 12

    Just hearing those figures makes me sick. Health insurance is such a scam.

    Comment


    • #3
      Kill Medical insurance now!

      Originally posted by don View Post
      . . .

      Prof. Nicole Huberfeld, . . ., “Most people who get health insurance from their employers have no idea how much it costs.”


      “People are often shocked when they see the cost, $12,000 to $16,000 a year,” Ms. Huberfeld said. “Many Americans believe this is something they get free. But employers pay lower wages because they provide insurance.”
      Hell yeah! It's as expensive as hell. Several problems with the current system:

      1) By keeping the costs hidden and preventing choice, there is no incentive (or possibility) for consumers to find lower cost solutions. (If you can opt out, you get some trivial amount of cash back, no where near what the insurance actually costs. The insurance companies would not allow a realistic opt-out, because the "adverse selection" would mean that only sick people keep the insurance, and the healthy ones opt out and take the $15k/year.

      2) The insurance programs are tax deductible, but cash wages are not. This is unjust because you should be taxed on the total value of your compensation, regardless of whether it is cash, medical care, stock, or barrels of oil. Heck, companies could just buy food and housing for their employees on a tax free basis.

      By not taxing medical insurance, we encourage it's growth--- a very bad idea.

      3) They only rational medical insurance is major medical. Stuff that happens very rarely and is very expensive like $50k or more. Anything smaller than that you should pay for just like you buy food, houses or cars: current income, savings, and borrowing.


      I totally agree that we need to help low income people. But a universal insurance program is not a good way to do that. It's a very expensive subsidy for the insurance and medical cartels. Give them a medical voucher, analagous to food stamps.

      Medicine is a cartel just as much as banking. In Guatemala you can buy almost any drug without a prescription. Here, you have to get a doctors prescription for the most routine test, and they send the results to the doctor, not to you. Like their bureaucracy knows your needs better than you do. Its a privileged professional guild, just like the ones attacked by Adam Smith centuries ago.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Kill Medical insurance now!

        Regarding the W-2 info.....the noose keeps getting tighter......

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Kill Medical insurance now!

          Originally posted by Polish_Silver View Post
          Hell yeah! It's as expensive as hell. Several problems with the current system:

          1) By keeping the costs hidden and preventing choice, there is no incentive (or possibility) for consumers to find lower cost solutions. (If you can opt out, you get some trivial amount of cash back, no where near what the insurance actually costs. The insurance companies would not allow a realistic opt-out, because the "adverse selection" would mean that only sick people keep the insurance, and the healthy ones opt out and take the $15k/year.

          2) The insurance programs are tax deductible, but cash wages are not. This is unjust because you should be taxed on the total value of your compensation, regardless of whether it is cash, medical care, stock, or barrels of oil. Heck, companies could just buy food and housing for their employees on a tax free basis.

          By not taxing medical insurance, we encourage it's growth--- a very bad idea.

          3) They only rational medical insurance is major medical. Stuff that happens very rarely and is very expensive like $50k or more. Anything smaller than that you should pay for just like you buy food, houses or cars: current income, savings, and borrowing.



          I agree,

          Also, many companies are "self insured" so that the "insurance company" only manages the money. Even here the more $$ the insurance company handles, the more profit they make, so they have a direct interest in making sure things cost a lot.

          Another common theme is to scare consumers into thinking that they "can't afford" medical care without "insurance". In reality they are paying.

          I think this is a good idea.

          It's funny I actually got a W-2 with ONLY the medical number on it.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Kill Medical insurance now!

            I actually got a W-2 with ONLY the medical number on it.
            +1

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Kill Medical insurance now!

              I just downloaded my W-2 and box 12c says $21,585, which it states is for "employer sponsored health coverage", which I assume means dental and EAP as well. I do have PPO medical coverage, but its still an insane amount of money. How high does it have to go before we collectively realize the current system is idiotic and change something? Will we ever do that? Will box 12 eventually grow to $30,000 in today's dollars and then $50,000?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Kill Medical insurance now!

                Originally posted by A Dub View Post
                I just downloaded my W-2 and box 12c says $21,585, which it states is for "employer sponsored health coverage", which I assume means dental and EAP as well. I do have PPO medical coverage, but its still an insane amount of money. How high does it have to go before we collectively realize the current system is idiotic and change something? Will we ever do that? Will box 12 eventually grow to $30,000 in today's dollars and then $50,000?
                If FIRE's lucky. Healthcare is really insurance with doctors and nurses . . .

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Kill Medical insurance now!

                  Originally posted by A Dub View Post
                  I just downloaded my W-2 and box 12c says $21,585 ... How high does it have to go before we collectively realize the current system is idiotic and change something? Will we ever do that? Will box 12 eventually grow to $30,000 in today's dollars and then $50,000?
                  2 and a half years ago we were discussing Canada vs. USA healthcare and I posted this here

                  But even Wiki's low not-all-in number of $5,452 per person (here) means a family of 4 is costing $21,808 ... and Canada is paying well over that per year for National Healthcare - much of it hidden by Provincial transfer payments etc.
                  ...
                  if "here" is in the USA for you - then from the link above - your total tax rate is 26.9% vs. our 42.6% ... and on $100K that's a difference of $15,700 !!

                  I don't like the PRICE TAG of our Healthcare system, and the wait times are unnecessarily long especially considering the PREMIUM we pay compared to the rest of the World. Given the choice - I would take back all the taxes I paid into Healthcare and get my own coverage. Like most things run by Government - I am not a fan.
                  Now, I realize that your tax rates have gone up a little bit - but I still think you get a better deal than we do - at least for now.

                  I think somebody should start writing about "Peak Cheap Healthcare" because just watch what happens when you try to impose austerity on doctors, nurses, surgeons, hospital administrators, Big Pharma etc.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Kill Medical insurance now!

                    Originally posted by wayiwalk View Post
                    Regarding the W-2 info.....the noose keeps getting tighter......
                    I really don't get why one would think this info is a bad thing. I think its great. And if it does lead to taxing the benefit, so be it, that may be on balance a good thing as well.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Kill Medical insurance now!

                      Originally posted by leegs View Post
                      I really don't get why one would think this info is a bad thing. I think its great. And if it does lead to taxing the benefit, so be it, that may be on balance a good thing as well.
                      I would be wary of the government taxing the benefit because I believe the prices being quoted are fictitious for many people. A Dub above cites a $21,585 benefit on his W-2, which I assume is because he insures a household of four or five people. I've purchased insurance solely for myself in the past and paid $2,280 per year. It goes without saying that I would be very unhappy if the government taxed me on $5,000 to $20,000 of income in the form of a benefit that I don't actually receive and cannot verify the value of.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Kill Medical insurance now!

                        Originally posted by Milton Kuo View Post
                        I would be wary of the government taxing the benefit because I believe the prices being quoted are fictitious for many people. A Dub above cites a $21,585 benefit on his W-2, which I assume is because he insures a household of four or five people. I've purchased insurance solely for myself in the past and paid $2,280 per year. It goes without saying that I would be very unhappy if the government taxed me on $5,000 to $20,000 of income in the form of a benefit that I don't actually receive and cannot verify the value of.
                        I'd be more wary of any sort of tax like that leading to a "defined contribution health plan," which is basically a euphemism for your employer pays what they want, and it will not cover any specific procedure, but the money will be drawn down by the insurance company until the account hits zero in a year. Or, alternatively, you take what the employer offers to some "health exchange" website where you buy whatever you can get with it. At that point, you're screwed. In case one, it's the exact opposite of an insurance plan, all risk going to the employee and no catastrophic coverage.

                        In case 2, it removes the bargaining power of large organizations and lets insurance companies sell high deductible, low-catastrophic risk ceiling plans to employees with no benefit negotiating experience for top dollar. Now, you may think that this is no different than what small business folks do now. But with the employer as an intermediary, there will be a given amount of money in a pool the employee can't touch that is "use it or lose it" every year. And since the insurance companies will quickly figure out how much money a given large employer puts into the "defined contribution," they'll very simply design a very bad plan designed to bankrupt sick employees (maximize profit for insurance companies) for exactly, or just a few dollars over, that amount. Then the next "tier" option will be put a couple of grand out of reach to make sure nobody buys it. Then, after you're enrolled for one year, they'll pare benefits back every single year. Your employer will not shift the contribution up to match inflation over the next decade. And before you know it, we've got an entire nation of functionally uninsured people in a "free market" healthcare system.

                        But since they sold a majority of people the lie that 401(k)s are better than pensions (mostly by violating the ex post facto clause of the constitution in every labor contract in existence by using the loophole claiming bankruptcy repeatedly and with a frequency that no mere mortal could legally do), this could sell too.

                        And they've been really thinking about it hard and talking about it for a decade now. And the ACA will make it easier. And Orzag predicts it will be the new normal by 2020.

                        Imagine it. They'll call it "freedom," in the greatest sense of George Orwell. You'll have the "freedom" to "choose" your very own plan (until you need one small surgery and the cash runs down and you lose your house due to lack of catastrophic coverage). But none of the plans are designed so that whatever "money" isn't spent from the defined benefit goes back to the employee. Oh no. That goes back to the employer. The language they use in these policy briefs is: "Unused vouchers are terminated."

                        And for fees, it's just like the 401(k). Now there's another pot of money you can't touch that somebody else manages in an account somewhere. You know what that means. Fees. Fees. Fees. And more glorious fees.

                        This will be the greatest tool health insurance companies have in the coming decade to reduce benefits, lower the ceiling on catastrophic coverage on policies across the board, and drive what's left of the middle class into wrenching poverty. And they will take advantage of it.

                        Whenever someone talks to you about "risk sharing" or "responsibility sharing" as the proponents of this nonsense always do, ask them what the potential reward is. What's the upside? High risk is supposed to mean high reward right? High risk with no reward...that's just another name for "Heads I win; Tales You Lose."

                        But so long as the labor market is soft for a decade in a row, who's going to worry about losing employees over this change? Probably next to no one.

                        Be vigilant.
                        Last edited by dcarrigg; February 02, 2013, 10:30 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Kill Medical insurance now!

                          Originally posted by dcarrigg View Post
                          I'd be more wary of any sort of tax like that leading to a "defined contribution health plan," which is basically a euphemism for your employer pays what they want, and it will not cover any specific procedure, but the money will be drawn down by the insurance company until the account hits zero in a year. Or, alternatively, you take what the employer offers to some "health exchange" website where you buy whatever you can get with it. At that point, you're screwed. In case one, it's the exact opposite of an insurance plan, all risk going to the employee and no catastrophic coverage.

                          In case 2, it removes the bargaining power of large organizations and lets insurance companies sell high deductible, low-catastrophic risk ceiling plans to employees with no benefit negotiating experience for top dollar. Now, you may think that this is no different than what small business folks do now. But with the employer as an intermediary, there will be a given amount of money in a pool the employee can't touch that is "use it or lose it" every year. And since the insurance companies will quickly figure out how much money a given large employer puts into the "defined contribution," they'll very simply design a very bad plan designed to bankrupt sick employees (maximize profit for insurance companies) for exactly, or just a few dollars over, that amount. Then the next "tier" option will be put a couple of grand out of reach to make sure nobody buys it. Then, after you're enrolled for one year, they'll pare benefits back every single year. Your employer will not shift the contribution up to match inflation over the next decade. And before you know it, we've got an entire nation of functionally uninsured people in a "free market" healthcare system.

                          But since they sold a majority of people the lie that 401(k)s are better than pensions (mostly by violating the ex post facto clause of the constitution in every labor contract in existence by using the loophole claiming bankruptcy repeatedly and with a frequency that no mere mortal could legally do), this could sell too.

                          And they've been really thinking about it hard and talking about it for a decade now. And the ACA will make it easier. And Orzag predicts it will be the new normal by 2020.

                          Imagine it. They'll call it "freedom," in the greatest sense of George Orwell. You'll have the "freedom" to "choose" your very own plan (until you need one small surgery and the cash runs down and you lose your house due to lack of catastrophic coverage). But none of the plans are designed so that whatever "money" isn't spent from the defined benefit goes back to the employee. Oh no. That goes back to the employer. The language they use in these policy briefs is: "Unused vouchers are terminated."

                          And for fees, it's just like the 401(k). Now there's another pot of money you can't touch that somebody else manages in an account somewhere. You know what that means. Fees. Fees. Fees. And more glorious fees.

                          This will be the greatest tool health insurance companies have in the coming decade to reduce benefits, lower the ceiling on catastrophic coverage on policies across the board, and drive what's left of the middle class into wrenching poverty. And they will take advantage of it.

                          Whenever someone talks to you about "risk sharing" or "responsibility sharing" as the proponents of this nonsense always do, ask them what the potential reward is. What's the upside? High risk is supposed to mean high reward right? High risk with no reward...that's just another name for "Heads I win; Tales You Lose."

                          But so long as the labor market is soft for a decade in a row, who's going to worry about losing employees over this change? Probably next to no one.

                          Be vigilant.
                          disclose the cost of fire econ health care to each worker in every paycheck... step in the right direction. brainwashed tea baggers won't connect the dots but the average half-intelligent person can figure out that health care administered by insurance co. bureaucrats ain't more efficient & cheaper than health care administered by gov't bureaucrats... much less so... & the 'tax' burden to get pissed off about is the one that insurance cos. & banks put on everything... healthcare, education, housing, etc... in fees & interest... skimming society's gains for themselves & electing pols to make pro-fire laws...


                          turned usa economic policy over to the wall street, banks & insurance co.


                          cut deal with greenspan... artificially low interest rates in
                          exchange for cuts in mil budget. result... 911. host of stock
                          bubble...


                          hosted housing bubble, looked the other way during rampant
                          mortgage fraud, hired Henry Paulson to handle the resulting
                          crisis


                          endless pro-fire legislation... health care, housing, finance, etc, etc, etc

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Kill Medical insurance now!

                            DC, thanks for another of your articulate and information filled posts. You've described yet new ways for the insurance companies to f%$# us.

                            Clearly the solution has to be to take the insurance companies out of the picture. This will only happen if and when the general public understands more clearly how screwed up the system already is. I suspect that the great majority of people with employer-paid health insurance are very complacent about the US health care system. They see the $200+/month that is deducted for insurance from their check, plus the bills/copays/etc that they pay directly, and those amounts are painful, but perhaps not painful enough. The fact that bogus memes likes 'America has the world's best health care system' can survice, is evidence of this.

                            So I think that when people see these additional big numbers, it starts to drive home the fact that things are really screwed up. If and when the factors you mention come into play, the point really starts to get driven home to lots of people. Perhaps then there is an opportunity for substantial reorganization of the system. This is another area of our lives where things are going to have to get a lot worse before they can get better, and I see this information as one potential small catalyst for change.

                            Edit: MM and I were apparently composing at the same time, and saying essentially the same thing.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Kill Medical insurance now!

                              Originally posted by Fiat Currency
                              2 and a half years ago we were discussing Canada vs. USA healthcare and I posted this here
                              Sorry, but you were/are comparing apples and oranges.

                              When comparing the national health care cost per person under the Canadian system vs. the US, the correct comparison is a total national health care expenditure divided by population. Under this more correct comparison (the population number used, specifically insured vs. non-insured - can be debated), the US spending per person is nearly double that of Canada. You just don't complain about it because this extra spending comes out of other pockets than 'insurance', yet the spending still exists.

                              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...PP)_per_capita

                              I should note that if we exclude the uninsured, the spending per person in the US goes up.

                              Originally posted by leegs
                              Clearly the solution has to be to take the insurance companies out of the picture.
                              While I have, for some time, been of the opinion that a significant part of the problem is the competing bureaucracies between medical billing and insurance companies, the more I look at it - the more it seems clear the medical billing bureaucracy arose primarily in response to insurance companies. f.I.r.e., in other words.

                              Unfortunately at this point there are several areas which require major intervention. Having a government bureaucracy administered insurance plan is one, and the other is having a government administered alternate health care system.

                              Both are eminently achievable as there are existing bureaucracies (federal employee health plan) and existing infrastructure (VA hospital network). What is missing is leadership - and we all know what we (don't) have to work with.
                              Last edited by c1ue; February 03, 2013, 11:20 AM.

                              Comment

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