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American Bases In Germany And The Gold Basis

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  • #31
    Re: Who's blowing smoke: 1933, 1971, and 2019?

    Originally posted by Polish_Silver View Post
    If "gold in hand" has allure, is it not because it is perceived as safer in Berlin or Bonn, than in New York?
    Yes, but I think only marginally.

    The real mistrust is not toward the US per se, or even the dollar. It is toward the Anglo-Saxon laissez-faire banking philosophy, which is dominant in the US and UK, but is also perceived to have infected domestic banks to some extent, particularly in giants like Deutsche Bank, and even the Bundesbank. This is why I am focused more on the interplay between Cameron and Merkel than the gold story. Merkel could well take a bigger hit than she is anticipating by folding to the City of London's demands (through their sock-puppet PM) for even more egregiously exceptional treatment. That's the story where she really has to walk a fine line to survive.

    You only need to look at the downfall of the pro-business coalition partner, the FDP party, to see evidence of that mood. It was embarrassing. Merkel needs to be pro-Europe enough to not be overcome by the SPD, but still hold Britain back from gaining any real concession. And if she can get a Tobin tax in without pushing Britain out (at least for now), that would be the real coup. I'm doubtful that that's really an option, though.



    No, The gold repatriation is more of a sweetener for now. I think there are certainly people in Germany who know enough about gold derivatives and rehypothecation to understand that their principle gold holdings in the US are at risk. But I think for most, the matter of unregulated Anglo-Saxon capitalists cheating the people makes for a more compelling source of moral outrage. And it is moral outrage that will swing an election.

    Originally posted by Polish_Silver View Post
    I think Germany would fight to defend it's citizens, boundaries, or gold. I don't think they wanted to fight in Bosnia, because there was no clear national interest.
    There is no doubt. But I would argue that their reticence to engage until that point arrives does mean that their forces will not exactly be in peak form if that day should ever come. That's not a fundamental problem, but it does rely on playing the odds, rather than chasing a mirage of perfect security.

    The U.S. has aggressively adopted a pursuit of an illusory perfect security, and firmly institutionalized it since 9/11. Germany has leaned in the other direction, and only time will tell if the gamble pays off. So far, it seems to be doing ok, particularly since the US has been stomping around the world attracting the ire (and hence, IEDs) of the all world's unstable elements. What remains to be seen is what happens as the US draws down its world footprint. If the unstable elements grow in strength as a consequence, perhaps their reluctant, but "softer", allies, will prove more tempting targets? It is of concern, but perhaps not for another year or so.

    Originally posted by Polish_Silver View Post
    I wish the USA would use it's military only where it's borders or citizens within those borders were at stake.
    Many do. But not enough to change the electoral calculus in that direction. At least not today.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Who's blowing smoke: 1933, 1971, and 2019?

      Originally posted by lektrode View Post
      and a shout out to mr astonas - nice to see you and your great writings.
      Thanks, 'lektrode. It's good to "see" you too. It's a treat for me to stop by and touch base with everyone here again from time to time. I'm only able to do it a few times every month or two these days (keeping busy with the entrepreneurship thing) but it is always nice to see that the whole gang's still here, analyzing the world, when I do.

      My best to you and yours.

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      • #33
        Re: American Bases In Germany And The Gold Basis

        Originally posted by GRG55 View Post
        He would seem to have this completely backwards.

        The contango covers the cost of holding gold for future delivery (vaulting fees and so forth). If gold, or any other commodity such as crude oil, goes into backwardation that usually means there is an expectation of a surplus (glut) in the future and there is no concern about promises of future availability of that commodity for delivery at a price even lower than current spot.

        A steep contango, much greater than the cost of holding the commodity, suggests fear of future shortage and therefore bids up the future price.
        fekete... dumbshit gold & silverbug's jim cramer?

        all drama & no substance.

        sucker born every day!

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: American Bases In Germany And The Gold Basis

          Originally posted by metalman View Post
          fekete... dumbshit gold & silverbug's jim cramer?

          all drama & no substance.

          sucker born every day!
          Every now and then the world turns out to be a simpler place than the pundits and conspiracy theorists might wish. That makes it easier for "lazy investors". :-)

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          • #35
            Re: American Bases In Germany And The Gold Basis

            Originally posted by GRG55 View Post
            Every now and then the world turns out to be a simpler place than the pundits and conspiracy theorists might wish.
            Agreed +1 US global interests are not that complicated . . .

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Who's blowing smoke: 1933, 1971, and 2019?

              Originally posted by astonas View Post
              Yes, but I think only marginally.

              The real mistrust is not toward the US per se, or even the dollar. It is toward the Anglo-Saxon laissez-faire banking philosophy, which is dominant in the US and UK,
              . . . .. Merkel could well take a bigger hit than she is anticipating by folding to the City of London's demands (through their sock-puppet PM) for even more egregiously exceptional treatment. .
              I know very little about "the City". Is it at all comparable to the US "Wall Street financial complex" ?

              If so, the UK has bigger problems than I thought.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Gold Leaps Into Backwardation

                Originally posted by globaleconomicollaps View Post


                The best way to think about the business of the grain elevator operator is to assume that he is marketing warehousing services, including the rationing of warehouse space between competing uses. His guiding star is the basis. High and rising basis tells him for which purposes the demand for scarce public warehouse capacity is the most urgent. Low and falling basis tells him for which purposes the demand is slack, as people prefer non-public solutions for their storage problem, e.g., by keeping supplies closer to home, as often happens in troubled times. Including digging holes in one's own backyard.
                Which is why backwardation in gold is important. It's a negative basis. No one wants a warehouse for their gold these days it seems...

                Lots of holes being dug out there.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: American Bases In Germany And The Gold Basis

                  He would seem to have this completely backwards.

                  The contango covers the cost of holding gold for future delivery (vaulting fees and so forth). If gold, or any other commodity such as crude oil, goes into backwardation that usually means there is an expectation of a surplus (glut) in the future and there is no concern about promises of future availability of that commodity for delivery at a price even lower than current spot.

                  A steep contango, much greater than the cost of holding the commodity, suggests fear of future shortage and therefore bids up the future price.


                  two things:
                  - a surplus of the good, or a lack of the nominal income to buy it with? (deflation)
                  - could it also signify a price differential between paper gold and physical gold, since gold futures only exist in paper form?

                  Fekete's writing is always a bit confusing to me. Take for example the fact that he talks about gold in backwardation as a condition under which "gold is not available at any price", which is equivalent to saying it's price is infinite. But he objects to that view in this article in response to comments by Mike Shedlock:
                  http://www.professorfekete.com/articles/AEFBackwardation.pdf

                  Is his view that the paper price is not infinite while the physical price is, or something?

                  Another interpretation of "not available at any price" is that so little liquidity and income is available as society collapses around your ears that gold is effectively unaffordable despite a "normal" nominal price.
                  "It's not the end of the world, but you can see it from here." - Deus Ex HR

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: American Bases In Germany And The Gold Basis

                    The whole thing reminds me of this this Krugman post that I keep coming back to: http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/201...-gold-wonkish/

                    I've had the question in my head for a while what would happen in K's model when the real interest rate goes negative. The "choke price" would be reached instantly. That's what this thread is about.

                    If K is right about how falling real interest rates send the price of gold higher, then gold should be in contango for as long as the Fed manages to keep sending real interest rates further down. After all, if the Fed keeps sending rates down, the future price of gold is estimated higher by the market. Fed action is priced in, because it is predictable.

                    On that note, is gold backwardation a vote of no confidence in the ability of the Fed to send real interest rates lower? A sign of deflation that the Fed can not halt by itself?

                    Suppose that the people advocating fiscal stimulus are right that the Fed can not keep up aggregate demand without the government's help. This is something implied also by itulip's theory of how reflation happens: "when the private sector refuses to borrow money into existence, the public sector will."

                    But recently we've seen major cutbacks in government spending; fiscal cliff, sequestration, the recent Q4 drop in military spending, etc.

                    Is gold confirming a major deflationary slump on the basis of this lack of government support of the economy?

                    Just thinking out loud ...
                    "It's not the end of the world, but you can see it from here." - Deus Ex HR

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: American Bases In Germany And The Gold Basis

                      To think all of this could be happening while Wall Street is long stocks on leverage... It could be a massacre. 1987 to the power of ten.

                      We, as bears who don't buy into the bullish narrative that is being pitched to keep this market rally going, need a better way to understand gold backwardation than stories of an upcoming flight out of risk-off assets. Is this it? Is this how we explain it? The implications are groundbreaking.
                      "It's not the end of the world, but you can see it from here." - Deus Ex HR

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: American Bases In Germany And The Gold Basis

                        Gold backwardation happened before in may 2012; Silver also backwardated at that time:
                        http://www.zerohedge.com/news/guest-...old-and-silver

                        December 2008 also saw gold backwardation.

                        Any significance to these dates?
                        "It's not the end of the world, but you can see it from here." - Deus Ex HR

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