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  • The Vati - Can Can

    gimme that old time religion, it's good enough for me . . .





    Few passing London tourists would ever guess that the premises of Bulgari, the upmarket jewellers in New Bond Street, had anything to do with the pope. Nor indeed the nearby headquarters of the wealthy investment bank Altium Capital, on the corner of St James's Square and Pall Mall.

    But these office blocks in one of London's most expensive districts are part of a surprising secret commercial property empire owned by the Vatican.

    Behind a disguised offshore company structure, the church's international portfolio has been built up over the years, using cash originally handed over by Mussolini in return for papal recognition of the Italian fascist regime in 1929.

    Since then the international value of Mussolini's nest-egg has mounted until it now exceeds £500m. In 2006, at the height of the recent property bubble, the Vatican spent £15m of those funds to buy 30 St James's Square. Other UK properties are at 168 New Bond Street and in the city of Coventry. It also owns blocks of flats in Paris and Switzerland.

    The surprising aspect for some will be the lengths to which the Vatican has gone to preserve secrecy about the Mussolini millions. The St James's Square office block was bought by a company called British Grolux Investments Ltd, which also holds the other UK properties. Published registers at Companies House do not disclose the company's true ownership, nor make any mention of the Vatican.

    Instead, they list two nominee shareholders, both prominent Catholic bankers: John Varley, recently chief executive of Barclays Bank, and Robin Herbert, formerly of the Leopold Joseph merchant bank. Letters were sent from the Guardian to each of them asking whom they act for. They went unanswered. British company law allows the true beneficial ownership of companies to be concealed behind nominees in this way.

    The company secretary, John Jenkins, a Reading accountant, was equally uninformative. He told us the firm was owned by a trust but refused to identify it on grounds of confidentiality. He told us after taking instructions: "I confirm that I am not authorised by my client to provide any information."

    Research in old archives, however, reveals more of the truth. Companies House files disclose that British Grolux Investments inherited its entire property portfolio after a reorganisation in 1999 from two predecessor companies called British Grolux Ltd and Cheylesmore Estates. The shares of those firms were in turn held by a company based at the address of the JP Morgan bank in New York. Ultimate control is recorded as being exercised by a Swiss company, Profima SA.

    British wartime records from the National Archives in Kew complete the picture. They confirm Profima SA as the Vatican's own holding company, accused at the time of "engaging in activities contrary to Allied interests". Files from officials at Britain's Ministry of Economic Warfare at the end of the war criticised the pope's financier, Bernardino Nogara, who controlled the investment of more than £50m cash from the Mussolini windfall.

    Nogara's "shady activities" were detailed in intercepted 1945 cable traffic from the Vatican to a contact in Geneva, according to the British, who discussed whether to blacklist Profima as a result. "Nogara, a Roman lawyer, is the Vatican financial agent and Profima SA in Lausanne is the Swiss holding company for certain Vatican interests." They believed Nogara was trying to transfer shares of two Vatican-owned French property firms to the Swiss company, to prevent the French government blacklisting them as enemy assets.

    Earlier in the war, in 1943, the British accused Nogara of similar "dirty work", by shifting Italian bank shares into Profima's hands in order to "whitewash" them and present the bank as being controlled by Swiss neutrals. This was described as "manipulation" of Vatican finances to serve "extraneous political ends".

    The Mussolini money was dramatically important to the Vatican's finances. John Pollard, a Cambridge historian, says in Money and the Rise of the Modern Papacy: "The papacy was now financially secure. It would never be poor again."

    From the outset, Nogara was innovative in investing the cash. In 1931 records show he founded an offshore company in Luxembourg to hold the continental European property assets he was buying. It was called Groupement Financier Luxembourgeois, hence Grolux. Luxembourg was one of the first countries to set up tax-haven company structures in 1929. The UK end, called British Grolux, was incorporated the following year.

    When war broke out, with the prospect of a German invasion, the Luxembourg operation and ostensible control of the British Grolux operation were moved to the US and to neutral Switzerland.

    The Mussolini investments in Britain are currently controlled, along with its other European holdings and a currency trading arm, by a papal official in Rome, Paolo Mennini, who is in effect the pope's merchant banker. Mennini heads a special unit inside the Vatican called the extraordinary division of APSA – Amministrazione del Patrimonio della Sede Apostolica – which handles the so-called "patrimony of the Holy See".

    According to a report last year from the Council of Europe, which surveyed the Vatican's financial controls, the assets of Mennini's special unit now exceed €680m (£570m).

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...pire-mussolini

  • #2
    Re: The Vati - Can Can

    It is a pittance, I suspect, in the grand scheme of things. How much wealth have they gathered in the wars they fought against the infidels? How much gold do they have hidden in their vaults? Nothing good or Godly comes from that place. Hopefully they continue to die off.

    Or, I could be wrong. Maybe hush money for their rape victims is costing them.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: The Vati - Can Can

      Maybe hush money for their rape victims is costing them.
      countries or young boys?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: The Vati - Can Can

        In 1973 I had the pleasure of spending the day at St. Peter's Cathedral in Rome. I was fifteen years old and a devout Catholic. The first thing the tour guide showed us were the papal jewels on display. Beautiful and ostentatious. I loved the architecture, the marble, the acoustics in the dome, the Sistine Chapel. I had an epiphany while gazing at the Pieta... this artistic kid was in bliss. IMO it's the most beautiful man-made place in the world. Michaelangelo was Da Man!

        I climbed the stairs inside the dome for the first and hopefully last time. What a hot, cramped claustrophobic experience that was! When I finally emerged at the top it felt liberating, like being born. I bought a wooden rosary from a vendor. Then I walked over to the edge and gazed out at Vatican City spread before me and had another epiphany (my second in only a few hours!). Seeing all those buildings, extending out, and out, and out, further and further... Endless wealth piled upon wealth. You really can't comprehend the wealth of the Church unless you see it. And it made me so mad.

        All that wealth built from the sweat and labor of the poorest of the poor, guilt-tripped into putting their tiny pesos into the collection plate every Sunday in order to enable the pope to live like a king so he can pass "infallible" decrees over them. So he can tell them what sinners they are. The longer I looked at Vatican City, the angrier I got.

        My anger wasn't against the priests and nuns working in the trenches to better the lives of their congregations. Those guys are heroes in my book. My anger was at the incomprehensible greed and hypocricy of the pope and his cronies. They lived nothing like the Christ they supposedly represented. It made me spittin' mad.

        I walked out of St. Peter's Cathedral no longer a Catholic.

        Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: The Vati - Can Can

          My anger wasn't against the priests and nuns working in the trenches to better the lives of their congregations. Those guys are heroes in my book.
          Shiny: Remember what happened to the nuns and priest in the peasant liberation movement? They were ostracized by Rome and all the Latin American cardinals but one. He was assassinate, as were many of the priests and nuns, after being tortured.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: The Vati - Can Can

            Originally posted by don View Post
            Shiny: Remember what happened to the nuns and priest in the peasant liberation movement? They were ostracized by Rome and all the Latin American cardinals but one. He was assassinate, as were many of the priests and nuns, after being tortured.
            Those guys wrote the unwritten book on institutionalized evil. Compared to them, Wall Street banksters are amateurs.

            When I was a kid, Father Albert, a Benedictine monk from Chicago, would drive down to Mexico every summer with a van full of high school students. They would stay at our house for maybe a week while gathering (begging) supplies from local businesses. Then they would proceed on south to a little village where they would dig wells, install some plumbing, vaccinate kids, maybe build a school. On their way back to Chicago they would stop at our house again for a few days to rest up. He'd show us a slide show of the work they did. It was great stuff!

            Late one night, I walked past the room where he was staying and heard him praying. He was berating God for all the suffering in the world. "Dammit God! Do something!"

            It was wierd: even though he never called ahead to say he was coming, we knew he was on his way because always, always just before he would pull up in the driveway a major appliance would break without warning. It happened so consistently that when the dryer would die or the dishwasher would suddenly flood the kitchen, we'd laugh and say "Father Albert must be coming", and he'd arrive within the hour. Washer, dryer, central A/C, dishwasher, refrigerator... he killed them all.

            I loved that guy.

            Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

            Comment


            • #7
              Marin Luther Redux!

              Originally posted by shiny! View Post
              In 1973 I had the pleasure of spending the day at St. Peter's Cathedral in Rome. I was fifteen years old and a devout Catholic. The first thing the tour guide showed us were the papal jewels on display. Beautiful and ostentatious. I loved the architecture, the marble, the acoustics in the dome, the Sistine Chapel. I had an epiphany while gazing at the Pieta... this artistic kid was in bliss. IMO it's the most beautiful man-made place in the world. Michaelangelo was Da Man!

              I climbed the stairs inside the dome for the first and hopefully last time. What a hot, cramped claustrophobic experience that was! When I finally emerged at the top it felt liberating, like being born. I bought a wooden rosary from a vendor. Then I walked over to the edge and gazed out at Vatican City spread before me and had another epiphany (my second in only a few hours!). Seeing all those buildings, extending out, and out, and out, further and further... Endless wealth piled upon wealth. You really can't comprehend the wealth of the Church unless you see it. And it made me so mad.

              All that wealth built from the sweat and labor of the poorest of the poor, guilt-tripped into putting their tiny pesos into the collection plate every Sunday in order to enable the pope to live like a king so he can pass "infallible" decrees over them. So he can tell them what sinners they are. The longer I looked at Vatican City, the angrier I got.

              My anger wasn't against the priests and nuns working in the trenches to better the lives of their congregations. Those guys are heroes in my book. My anger was at the incomprehensible greed and hypocricy of the pope and his cronies. They lived nothing like the Christ they supposedly represented. It made me spittin' mad.

              I walked out of St. Peter's Cathedral no longer a Catholic.
              Martin Luther had a similiar experience when he visited Rome, right at the time those magnificent monuments were being worked on. Struggling german peasants were encouraged to buy indulgences, which brought forgivness of sins, to provide revenue for the Basilica.

              The reformation comes out of some very profound stuff. And the theology reflects the practical dimension.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: The Vati - Can Can

                My church recently had a class about the benedictine tradition. No self flagellation or silence at meals.
                Meditation, practical work, communal living, etc.
                People said that Benedict never preached a rule he did not live himself. There's a lot to think about some of these traditions, for example, the Franciscans.

                The benedicine monastery was the setting for "The Name of the Rose". Good movie/book if you haven't seen it.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: The Vati - Can Can

                  Everyone seems sees the wealth of the Catholic Church, or any other long standing religious institution and get upset. People seem to be upset because the poor are giving up their tiny wealth so that the Pope and his cronies can live a luxurious lifestyle. First you must understand that most of the property and wealth of the Church is not under any individual's control. Just take the Pope for example, he can't just sell off a jewel and buy a Ferrari. Also the Popes, Bishops, Cardinals, etc are all celibate and are expected to lead lives according to Jesus and the populace is always watchful to keep them to that. I understand there are others that work for the Church that are not from the religious order, but the leaders set the tone for the institution.

                  I am not sure what other kind of people are more trustworthy with all that huge amount of wealth than people who are suppose to be celibate and live the ideals of Christ (the charity, kindness, forgiveness, the caring for others as oneself, etc.). They strive to remove as much worldly temptation as humanely possible. So for all those that get angry, if anyone can do better, please do so. Try living the ideals that they are called to live.

                  Originally posted by shiny! View Post
                  In 1973 I had the pleasure of spending the day at St. Peter's Cathedral in Rome. I was fifteen years old and a devout Catholic. The first thing the tour guide showed us were the papal jewels on display. Beautiful and ostentatious. I loved the architecture, the marble, the acoustics in the dome, the Sistine Chapel. I had an epiphany while gazing at the Pieta... this artistic kid was in bliss. IMO it's the most beautiful man-made place in the world. Michaelangelo was Da Man!

                  I climbed the stairs inside the dome for the first and hopefully last time. What a hot, cramped claustrophobic experience that was! When I finally emerged at the top it felt liberating, like being born. I bought a wooden rosary from a vendor. Then I walked over to the edge and gazed out at Vatican City spread before me and had another epiphany (my second in only a few hours!). Seeing all those buildings, extending out, and out, and out, further and further... Endless wealth piled upon wealth. You really can't comprehend the wealth of the Church unless you see it. And it made me so mad.

                  All that wealth built from the sweat and labor of the poorest of the poor, guilt-tripped into putting their tiny pesos into the collection plate every Sunday in order to enable the pope to live like a king so he can pass "infallible" decrees over them. So he can tell them what sinners they are. The longer I looked at Vatican City, the angrier I got.

                  My anger wasn't against the priests and nuns working in the trenches to better the lives of their congregations. Those guys are heroes in my book. My anger was at the incomprehensible greed and hypocricy of the pope and his cronies. They lived nothing like the Christ they supposedly represented. It made me spittin' mad.

                  I walked out of St. Peter's Cathedral no longer a Catholic.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: The Vati - Can Can

                    Notwithstanding any of the evils perpetrated by members of or committed on behalf of the Catholic Church or any ongoing corruption (something that exists in any large and diverse institution), the Church remains \the repository of the Faith and the Truth.

                    Taking issue and seeking to root out corruption and injustice within the Church is admirable.
                    Rejecting the primary source of Truth b/c of the wickedness and hypocrisy members is a tragedy.

                    http://catholiceducation.org/article...cs/ap0075.html

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: The Vati - Can Can

                      Originally posted by vinoveri View Post
                      Notwithstanding any of the evils perpetrated by members of or committed on behalf of the Catholic Church or any ongoing corruption (something that exists in any large and diverse institution), the Church remains \the repository of the Faith and the Truth.

                      Taking issue and seeking to root out corruption and injustice within the Church is admirable.
                      Rejecting the primary source of Truth b/c of the wickedness and hypocrisy members is a tragedy.

                      http://catholiceducation.org/article...cs/ap0075.html
                      The primary source of Truth is God, and God is not a member of any religion.

                      Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: The Vati - Can Can

                        Originally posted by shiny! View Post
                        The primary source of Truth is God, and God is not a member of any religion.
                        I'm glad we agree on that my friend.

                        My wording was imprecise; The Church is not the originator of course (although ironically that is one of the main criticisms leveld against her, perhaps due to carelessness in communications such as mine).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: The Vati - Can Can

                          Any institution that has amassed significant wealth is likely to be taken over by gangsters at some point, no matter the ideals behind it.

                          This PBS series on the Medici was posted in some other thread not so long ago.

                          God and Bankers

                          The Medici created a lucrative partnership with another medieval power, the Catholic Church. In what had to be one of the most ingenious enterprises of all time, the Medici bank collected 10% of your earnings for the Church. If you couldn't pay, you faced excommunication - a one-way ticket to hell.

                          The Pope himself had a massive overdraft, and the Medici bank became the most profitable business in Europe. By 1434, half the bank's revenue came from the Rome “branch”, which was in fact little more than a mobile bank that followed the Pope around the world.

                          Papal connections gave the Medici bank immense power, soon everyone wanted an account with the Pope's personal bank. On one occasion the nomination of a new bishop was “delayed”, until his father - a Cardinal - had repaid their debts to the Medici bank.

                          And the Medici kept ahead of their banking rivals because of the invention of limited liability. Giovanni di Bicci had set up a franchise system, where regional branch managers shared a stake in the business. Giovanni also banned loans to princes and kings, who were notoriously bad investments.

                          Consequentially, the Medici business remained in the black while its competitors lost fortunes.
                          Justice is the cornerstone of the world

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Worldly Temptation

                            Originally posted by ddn3f View Post
                            Everyone seems sees the wealth of the Catholic Church, or any other long standing religious institution and get upset. People seem to be upset because the poor are giving up their tiny wealth so that the Pope and his cronies can live a luxurious lifestyle. First you must understand that most of the property and wealth of the Church is not under any individual's control. Just take the Pope for example, he can't just sell off a jewel and buy a Ferrari. Also the Popes, Bishops, Cardinals, etc are all celibate and are expected to lead lives according to Jesus and the populace is always watchful to keep them to that. I understand there are others that work for the Church that are not from the religious order, but the leaders set the tone for the institution.

                            I am not sure what other kind of people are more trustworthy with all that huge amount of wealth than people who are suppose to be celibate and live the ideals of Christ (the charity, kindness, forgiveness, the caring for others as oneself, etc.). They strive to remove as much worldly temptation as humanely possible. So for all those that get angry, if anyone can do better, please do so. Try living the ideals that they are called to live.
                            Why did the church go to such lengths to conceal property obtained by a deal with Mussolini?

                            "Foxes have holes, and the birds have nests, but the son of man has nowhere to lay his head."
                            Last edited by Polish_Silver; January 28, 2013, 09:44 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Worldly Temptation

                              I would not know why they did what they did. Maybe there are greedy gangsters in every institution no matter how great the ideals are?

                              Originally posted by Polish_Silver View Post
                              Why did the church go to such lengths to conceal property obtained by a deal with Mussolini?

                              "Foxes have holes, and the birds have nests, but the son of man has nowhere to lay his head."

                              Comment

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