Gun Control Anyone?

[Ghent12]

Re: Gun Control Anyone?

Any issue as charged as this one will have zealots on both sides. Gun control maniacs are just as matched by gun toting freaks.

I've never met a gun toting freak, though I have met many who call the NRA "a bunch of liberal pussies" (excuse the language, please). I cannot imagine a perspective that is too "pro-gun" that anybody would actually hold. Can you list an example of the perspectives of "gun toting freaks" that allegedly match those of "gun control maniacs" or are you simply trying to assume balance when there is none?

[reggie]

Re: Gun Control Anyone?

I hope not to sound glib or trite, but those who are opposed to guns are very much like religious zealots. No amount of logic and reason will help you. I speak from personal experience as I am married to one.

WTF? Where did you get that frame from?

My late husband had a roommate in college, a dear friend, who now lives in a remote area above the arctic circle. While in the military in the early 70's, he was repeatedly given LSD and confined in a small box with live snakes. He became psychotic. The experience left him deeply paranoid of the government and afraid to travel south of the arctic circle for fear of encountering a snake.

Ugh, now my guess is he suffers from MPS (multiple personality disorder) or schizophrenia, or both. They were looking for techniques to sever brain cognition into multiple segments, so that a "normal" person could also possess "alters" (personalities) that could be controlled without the knowledge of the subject. The brain will do almost anything to protect itself under extreme stress. It's been widelly reported that children, I'm talking infants here, who are subjects to extreme abuse, including sexual, form such multiple alters, and can be leveraged as intelligence assets in adulthood while living perfectly "normal" lives.

Pretty nasty stuff. I've heard rumors (unconfirmed of course) for years that many of the actual results and data are still around, in spite of assertions that all was destroyed.

I'm more concerned about the combination of Bernays type work with SSRIs and other psych meds, or even the SRI work with paranormal phenomena in the early 70s (although it seems it wasn't reliable enough for them from what I have read).

Besides, "Happiness is a warm gun." ;-)

Happiness is NOT a warm gun when those who possess said guns are brainwashed. Just take a look at this clips from a 1991 low-end holliwood production...

[bart]

Re: Gun Control Anyone?

...

Happiness is NOT a warm gun when those who possess said guns are brainwashed. Just take a look at this clips from a 1991 low-end holliwood production...

That was a joke & sarcasm, think you missed the wink emoticon.

It's also the title of a John Lennon tune, which contains very substantial social commentary including "smacking down" extreme gun zealots. And the extreme zealots on the other side (also "brainwashed") need to be "smacked down" too.

Thankfully the huge majority here aren't zealots on either side.

[reggie]

Re: Gun Control Anyone?

That was a joke & sarcasm, think you missed the wink emoticon.

It's also the title of a John Lennon tune, which contains very substantial social commentary including "smacking down" extreme gun zealots. And the extreme zealots on the other side (also "brainwashed") need to be "smacked down" too.

Thankfully the huge majority here aren't zealots on either side.

ok, thanks for the claification. I feel better now

[Master Shake]

Re: Gun Control Anyone?

WTF? Where did you get that frame from?

From Bart's post about his experiences on Ritholtz's blog (TBP) and my own experience on line and in real life dealing with anti-gun fanatics.

[Master Shake]

Re: Shooting caused by prescription drugs?

It's not a ridiculous idea, although you bring up valid criticisms of it. Protection comes in many different forms, and the prime/first level is Presence. In schools things are far trickier, because the threat comes more often from the inside than the outside, so any security personnel at a school would have to be very good at their job which is just a bit too much to ask for anyone working in public education. That doesn't mean that a security detail for schools is a bad idea, just that it must be carefully considered.

The idea of arming teachers is far worse. If anyone needs an explanation, they should consult their critical thinking abilities--having education "professionals" armed is a recipe for disaster because few teachers are professional enough to handle such a burden.

Of course, the idea of gun control also offers no resolution to the problem of school shootings, and any person in a moment of clarity will realize that. Any efforts to reduce both the chances and the severity of these types of incidents must put everything on the table and then appropriately apply only the efforts that have any hope of success.

I think trained and armed office admininstrative personnel (principal, asst. principal) is a better idea.

[lakedaemonian]

Re: Gun Control Anyone?

It's a good example of the difficulties involved in dealing with the insane or psychopaths in my opinion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Committee

What's interesting is clicking thru to Church's wiki page and seeing this quote:

"I don't want to see this country ever go across the bridge... I know the capacity that is there to make tyranny total in America, and we must see to it that this agency and all agencies that possess this technology operate within the law and under proper supervision, so that we never cross over that abyss. That is the abyss from which there is no return."

[bart]

Re: Gun Control Anyone?

What's interesting is clicking thru to Church's wiki page and seeing this quote:

"I don't want to see this country ever go across the bridge... I know the capacity that is there to make tyranny total in America, and we must see to it that this agency and all agencies that possess this technology operate within the law and under proper supervision, so that we never cross over that abyss. That is the abyss from which there is no return."

Agreed, except the part about an abyss of no return.

No tyranny lasts forever - they have black swans too, and not just an underground.

[BadJuju]

Re: Gun Control Anyone?

I've never met a gun toting freak, though I have met many who call the NRA "a bunch of liberal pussies" (excuse the language, please). I cannot imagine a perspective that is too "pro-gun" that anybody would actually hold. Can you list an example of the perspectives of "gun toting freaks" that allegedly match those of "gun control maniacs" or are you simply trying to assume balance when there is none?

I cannot list anyone you would know, but my personal experience with co-workers that were die-hard gun owners definitely colors my view of the situation. So unfortunately, I have nothing concrete to offer you. I do not get caught up in the debate.

[bart]

Re: Gun Control Anyone?

I know true zealots on both sides on the gun issues, and they have been that way for years if not decades. And both extremes think thay have it right and nothing but 100% right... aka, "God is on their side" (no intent to insult anyone's religion, it's just an analogy).

The increase in "emotional" comments, sad to say, is simply a sign of the times. Anyone can probably list a number of areas where public statements or posts have gotten much hotter over the last few years, like on "entitlements", and without basic opinions having changed much.
And it doesn't help that we have a president who sometimes foments and aggravates the various topics, rather than being more statesman like.


I also don't expect it to get better in the near or intermediate future, sad to say.

It reminds me of the late 70s, and I even had a name for it back then that came from the Foundation for the Study of Cycles, and it applies now too - "Mass Human Excitability". It's one of the major factors that leads to and even helps to cause wars. :-(

An analogy would be if everyone takes some amount of a stimulant like methedrine daily, and the dose increases a tiny bit
every day.

[Roughneck]

Re: Gun Control Anyone?

This is a long read but very informative.
http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/20...n-gun-control/


One reason I believe the gun control zealots are so emotional is that's all they have on their side, emotion. The facts just don't Lie. I hear across the pond they want to ban long kitchen knives now as well. No kidding.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4581871.stm

[shiny!]

Re: Gun Control Anyone?

One reason I believe the gun control zealots are so emotional is that's all they have on their side, emotion. The facts just don't Lie. I hear across the pond they want to ban long kitchen knives now as well. No kidding.

That's what happens when you try to make a utopian nanny state. Pretty soon they'll ban all metal utensils and only allow plastic forks and knives. then when PCO makes plastics too expensive, they'll all be eating with their hands. England took away guns. Now that the honest citizens are disarmed, the government has put them under incredible amounts of camera surveillance "for their own good".

Cat bites are more dangerous than cat scratches. Cat's seldom bite- they prefer to use their claws as their first line of defense. Most cat bite injuries are inflicted by cats that have been declawed.

England took away guns so now more crimes are committed with knives. When citizens gave up their guns, burglaries declined and robberies increased. Burglers that formerly feared entering a home while occupied lost their fear of getting shot. Now they break in and rob while the occupants are at home.

The only way to eliminate violent crime is to eliminate people. That's probably the ultimate goal.

[Ghent12]

Re: Shooting caused by prescription drugs?

I think trained and armed office admininstrative personnel (principal, asst. principal) is a better idea.

That's not sufficient if we are to take the concept of armed security seriously. If the number of armed personnel is too few and the potential assailants know who they are, they will either strike while those people are away (lunch, vacation, etc.) or kill them first using surprise, both techniques having historic precedence for school shootings. Taking armed security to a logical conclusion, placing a police detachment in a building next to schools would be the best way to allow for quick response to these types of incidents. So long as this detachment does not process the regular types that "go downtown" in handcuffs, it might work sufficiently with minimal negative side effects.

[bart]

Re: Gun Control Anyone?

Don't identify anyone in the school that's armed, that will make them targets.

A sign alone could make a big difference.
"When children are present, at least one person on these premises is armed" or similar.

[Roughneck]

Re: Gun Control Anyone?

If you did away with the gun free zones at schools at made it public that teachers and admins with CCW permits would be allowed to have guns at schools it would seriously deter the crazies. Because now they know that someone at the school may be armed. These guys are cowards. Thats why they pick places with no guns and give up or kill themselves when the cops show up. My wife works at a school. Her office is at the front entrance. If some nut job comes in the front door she doesn't have a chance. If she was allowed to carry a CCW at least she might be able to get off a few rounds and slow the guy down. I admit that having teachers carry is problematic. You don't want the kids to have access to a gun in a classroom so it would have to be locked up,possibly in a biometric case. When caught by surprise the odds of a teacher getting to a gun in time are not good if it's locked up and a guy busts into a class room. Having one off duty cop doing extra duty at a school is not that big of an expense in the grand scheme of things and would also make a big difference.