Gun Control Anyone?

[LorenS]

Re: Gun Control Anyone?

We seek a practical plan for a lone madman gone berserk.
We don't need to protect our schools against a team of professional commando's just yet.

That wasn't what we heard after Columbine.

Why do you need a team to break down the front doors with your car? The Columbine kids packed their car with pipe bombs, propane bombs and guns. Don't you think getting into the building was part of the plan?

People don't realize how lucky we were the propane devices failed at Columbine.

[c1ue]

Re: Gun Control Anyone?

The solution will have to involve some way of taking the 300M+ number of guns in circulation (not just banning new sales) down to some number that makes getting one take way more than internet savvy (again with the adolescent boys). It will take stricter enforcement of current law. And above all, it will take an understanding by the obsessively pro-gun minority in this country that it is the people, NOT the government, who demand that individual ownership of mass-killing weapons be ended.

Gun control isn't going to fix the problem. As has been abundantly demonstrated, there are plenty of other ways to kill: axes, knives, gas, poison, cars, buses, bridges, fire, etc etc.

Enforcement of laws isn't the problem. This guy was fully law abiding pretty much up until he opened fire.

You want to fix the problem? Here are several ways:

1) Ban all mention of such mass killings in the media and on the internet/paper form. There is a clear correlation between mass shooting media and more mass shootings, and such deranged people often do reference other predecessor's work. 100 years ago, you wouldn't hear about this except as a hushed whisper. 50 years ago, it wouldn't be front page. Even 30 years ago it would news, but would be considered uncool.

Now? 15 minutes of fame, baby.

2) As is noted above, the nut jobs aren't 'lone gunmen'. What they do is clearly a social expression. If we don't want this any more, we should reorient our social patterns away from Charles Bronson/Dirty Harry into the Japanese model: throw yourself under a train as a social statement.

3) Killology is interesting, but is flawed. For one thing, the military knows that actual killing has long term psychological effects, and many people experience effects right after such events, but these nut jobs are doing it for the first time.

I am thoroughly unconvinced that video games make any difference in this respect, though I can see how it might make it easier to pull the trigger.

Then again, these are nut jobs. They clearly don't see other people as 'people' anyway.

4) Arming everyone. Frankly this is stupid. If America, the most highly armed nation on earth, also experiences more of these events (which I think is the case though I can't say definitively), I don't see how doing more of the same helps.

The issue is the social statement being made. Change the acceptable or cool way to make such social statements, and these shootings will stop.

5) Let's also not forget that while this shooting wasn't economically motivated, a lot of these are. Death by Policeman is an increasingly accepted way to go out and take someone with you.

Any other talk about the 2nd amendment, banning guns, arming more people, whatever - purely a smokescreen to advance personal agenda.

[Polish_Silver]

Three questions: 1) Were automatic weapons used?

1) Did the recent school shooting involve automatic, rapid wire weapons?

2) What is an "assault rifle"?

3) Since the constitution guarantees the right to bear arms, should the
second amendment be repealed, or interpreted to be contingent on "in a well organized militia"?

"Arms" might be thought to include hand grenades, cannons, bombs, jet fighters.

To bad all the lawyers did not get more specific about "arms".

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: Gun Control Anyone?

...1) Ban all mention of such mass killings in the media and on the internet/paper form. ....

c1ue, my friend, you may have posed in haste.
You can't be suggesting we destroy the first amendment to order to save the second amendment.

[wayiwalk]

Re: Gun Control Anyone?

c1ue, my friend, you may have posed in haste.
You can't be suggesting we destroy the first amendment to order to save the second amendment.

+1

You beat me to it.....

[c1ue]

Re: Gun Control Anyone?

c1ue, my friend, you may have posed in haste.
You can't be suggesting we destroy the first amendment to order to save the second amendment.

That's because I did not post in haste nor am I suggesting a pre-emption of the 1st amendment.

Banning mentions of a specific activity for the public good is something that already occurs - for example with victims of crimes, active lawsuits/investigations, and so forth.

Certainly there will be those who cry foul - particularly the worst of the scandal sheets - but then again, ultimately it is up to us as citizens to decide if this public good is worth the exception to the present law.

[Polish_Silver]

Guns, Fame, and Alcohol ! (Sorry, couldn't get germs and steel in there)

You want to fix the problem? Here are several ways:

1) Ban all mention of such mass killings in the media and on the internet/paper form. There is a clear correlation between mass shooting media and more mass shootings, and such deranged people often do reference other predecessor's work. 100 years ago, you wouldn't hear about this except as a hushed whisper. 50 years ago, it wouldn't be front page. Even 30 years ago it would news, but would be considered uncool.

Now? 15 minutes of fame, baby.

Totally agreed that the incentive is public noteriety. Almost all terrorism is based on this idea. The actual damage or killing done is small, but the media effect is big.

I am not sure that banning communication is the way to go.

But, to keep things in perspective, we are losing 3000 people every month to auto accidents, a significant portion of them to drunk drivers. Are we going to limit "freedom of alcohol" to save 500 people a month? Maybe we should require that for every TV minute spent on mass shootings, they spend one minute on drunk driving and second hand smoke.

Incidentally, both murder rates and auto accident fatalities have been declining for decades, even though population is growing and concealed carry weapons permits are also growing.

[cbr]

Re: Gun Control Anyone?



that is my grandfathers' middle school class... from his middle school yearbook....heading to the on campus range.

the problem is not the guns people. it's the people. and the fact that our society encourages freaks and discourages self reliant people with ethics and common sense.

[jiimbergin]

Re: Gun Control Anyone?

Grrr, it's not what the media is doing to them! The media doesn't give them "splatter" movies to watch--the child's parents do. Parents and only parents are responsible for their children.

We must be logical about this, for we have so much to lose in erring either way. All calls for "gun control" are emotional and seriously shallow in logic, while all implementations of gun control are completely devoid of logic. No "gun control" law that could have ever passed in Connecticut or at the federal level would have prevented or even lessened the school shooting, hence the entire issue of "gun control" offers no "solutions" to this situation by anyone's standards. We may as well pass a law requiring all citizens to be sane; it will be just as effective in stopping crazy people from doing insane things.

I couldn't agree more.

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: Gun Control Anyone?

that is my grandfathers' middle school class... from his middle school yearbook....heading to the on campus range.

the problem is not the guns people. it's the people. and the fact that our society encourages freaks and discourages self reliant people with ethics and common sense.

My father grew up in a rural town in western Minnesota during the depression in the 1920's and 30's.

He liked to tell me that he and the other kids sometimes shot rabbits, pheasants and quail walking to school and back, so the coat room at his elementary school and high school had a few loaded guns unattended most days, and they never shot each other.

[DSpencer]

Re: Gun Control Anyone?

There is no way to eliminate the risk of incidents such as Sandy Hook, but it is reasonable to look for measures that can incrementally reduce the risk - such as better school security, improved mental health care, etc. Incremental gun control measures -such as banning large ammo clips or assault rifles - can reasonably be included in that debate.

Some European countries - eg. the UK - have gone down the road of very tight gun control in an effort to eliminate mass killing incidents. I can't imagine that US would ever go as far as the UK. Nevertheless even in the US it is not possible to obtain any weapon you may desire - the question is where the line should be drawn.

"Incremental gun control measures" is the perfect phrase because only a fool believes that it would be a one time compromise. It is a slow process of eroding our rights just as has been done in other areas.

So called assault weapon bans are generally ridiculous. They seem to be created by ignorant people to antagonize gun owners. ANY gun can be used to assault people. Regarding large ammo clips: do you have any idea how fast a gun can be reloaded?


Granted, this is a pro, but it illustrates the point well enough. An amateur can probably still reload in 2-3 seconds or less. This shooter was a coward. He was shooting unarmed children. Even if it took 10-15 seconds, I don't see him being overtaken by an unarmed child or the vast majority of 1st grade teachers. The other features included in this type of legislation such as bayonet lugs and pistol grips are typically equally stupid. The goal seems to be a ban on scary looking weapons more than anything else.

The root of the problem as always is our culture, parenting, etc. Nobody seems interested in that debate.

[Polish_Silver]

The real reason for Shootings

I will give 99.9% odds the shooter was not looking forward to a night in bed with
an 18 year old hottie. So, without the hottie to look forward to, the reason for his existence was craving the infamy of "the sandy hook shooter".

It has been observed that male primates get a lot more peaceful when looking forward to hotties.

Q: What demographic group has the highest rate of suicide, violent crime, and reckless driving?

A: Men aged 15-25 years old.

Q: What demographic group has the highest degree of sexual frustration?

A: ??

[LorenS]

Re: The real reason for Shootings

I will give 99.9% odds the shooter was not looking forward to a night in bed with
an 18 year old hottie. So, without the hottie to look forward to, the reason for his existence was craving the infamy of "the sandy hook shooter".

It has been observed that male primates get a lot more peaceful when looking forward to hotties.

Q: What demographic group has the highest rate of suicide, violent crime, and reckless driving?

A: Men aged 15-25 years old.

Q: What demographic group has the highest degree of sexual frustration?

A: ??

My local paper has one article about a lady heading to jail for slicing her guy's throat (victim dead) and another article about a guy facing charges for shooting his girl in the head (victim alive).

[LorenS]

Re: Gun Control Anyone?

Some folks even trick the "good guys" into doing their dirty work:

911 caller lied about armed robbery:
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...ack=lanowpicks

911 caller lied about a lot of stuff and caused a huge potential for tragedies:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...ing-cases.html

Longmont police release domestic violence suspect, 6 hours later the woman is dead and the cops are wondering "where he got the gun" instead of "why did we let him go":
http://www.coloradoan.com/article/20...murder-suicide

[Roughneck]

Re: Gun Control Anyone?

As for banning assault rifles and high capacity magazines. The most dangerous short range weapon is a 12 gauge shotgun loaded with buckshot.Both commonly used for hunting. 5 rounds of buckshot = 60 .30 caliber bullets. With a hacksaw you can cut off the barrel and hide it under a coat.