Gun Control Anyone?

[LorenS]

Re: Here it comes...

After four years Obama realizes that there are gun laws that he can enforce? Maybe we don't need new ones after all? And this is not a sign of colossal incompetence or possibly even criminal negligence?

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/0...7.html?hp=t1_3

“It was all focusing on enforcing existing law, administering things like improving the background database, things like that that do not involve a change in the law but enforcing and making sure that the present law is administered as well as possible,” said Rep. Bobby Scott (D-Va.).

WOW!! These guys have no shame.

[Ghent12]

Re: Here it comes...

The United Kingdom established gun control in 1997. It has one of the lowest rates of gun homicides in the world with 0.07 recorded intentional homicides committed with a firearm per 100,000 inhabitants in 2009 compared to the United States' 3.0 (over 40 times higher) and to Germany's 0.21 (3 times higher). However, the overall rate of homicide by all means, 1.2 per 100k, is significantly higher than that in most comparable European nations, e.g. Germany (0.8).

Evidently, according to government sources, the UK has a violent crime rate that is 3.5 times that of the notoriously violent US. Go go gadget gun control!

[bart]

Re: Here it comes...

...

Go go gadget gun control!

tsk, tsk... show a little respect for such wonderfully and artfully spun stats!!! ;-)

[don]

Re: Here it comes...

CA Fitts weighs in . . .

[cbr]

Re: Here it comes...

Evidently, according to government sources, the UK has a violent crime rate that is 3.5 times that of the notoriously violent US. Go go gadget gun control!

in the UK, just like everywhere else that citizens are generally not armed, every breath you take is 100% purely at the mercy of anyone in your presence that is physically stronger than you. a woman, old man, or kid cannot run from, defend himself, or otherwise avoid being raped, killed, robbed, beaten, or whatever else the stronger, faster person chooses to do.

in the UK, it was a REGULAR occurrence for a group of guys to beat the snot out of someone they took a dislike to, on a casual basis, in the subway or a pub. they usually choose to stop short of killing, but that's their choice. most of these incidents were never reported and of course no cops were there to help.

in Texas, that kind of violence does not happen, because there is a reasonable chance that the victim will bleed the attackers with a handgun.

but all that is moot.

crime with weapons does not matter. the citizens of a free country, by the very definition of the word, are armed effectively enough to truly deter government overreach. that is all that matters, and we can't afford to let that change.

[shiny!]

Re: Here it comes...

crime with weapons does not matter. the citizens of a free country, by the very definition of the word, are armed effectively enough to truly deter government overreach. that is all that matters, and we can't afford to let that change.

But unfortunately it is changing. What do we do? I just don't see an armed resistance happening. It couldn't succeed anyway unless the police and/or military also turns.

[reggie]

Re: Here it comes...

But unfortunately it is changing. What do we do? I just don't see an armed resistance happening. It couldn't succeed anyway unless the police and/or military also turns.

The only way out is to Transcend this System. But this is almost exclusively a mental exercise, no firearms or fighting required. Unfortunately, the system has almost complete control over our cognitive inputs, particularly with educated classes (see Theodor Adorno). Hence, the challenges are incalculable.

[snakela]

Re: Gun Control Anyone?

After taking "the red pill" with EJs kazoo vs. bullhorn metaphor, I thought it was odd that the media complex and DC were in high gear on this right near the holidays.

Seems I was correct: It's now reported by an NBC affiliate that the AR-15 was left in the car, that the shooter tried to buy a new gun prior to the incident but was denied. He used extra pistols.

http://www.ijreview.com/2013/01/3020...town-shooting/


Pistol grips, flash surpressors and 20-30 round magazines won't save children from crazies. They are however, a little extra convinient in a gun fight. There's no doubt in my mind anymore that is what this is all really about: the threat of a citizen revolt.

A few years ago I was required to take week long self defense and gun-fighting course as a condition to working overseas. A bunch of dorky engineers like me were able to swap magazines in less than a second after a day of practice. So what's the difference between 3 10-rounders and one 30 rounder is two seconds or less. That wouldn't have saved anyone in colorado or newton. It would only make a difference during a mass insurection. Looking at how much trouble the US Gov has had in tiny Afghanistan with a small number of goat herders armed with outdated weapons, the prospect of facing 10 million americans with a stock of modern rifles must truley keep some people in high places up at night.

[don]

Re: Gun Control Anyone?

It's now reported by an NBC affiliate that the AR-15 was left in the car, that the shooter tried to buy a new gun prior to the incident but was denied. He used extra pistols.

didn't the coroner report all the children were killed with a long gun?

[snakela]

Re: Here it comes...

But unfortunately it is changing. What do we do? I just don't see an armed resistance happening. It couldn't succeed anyway unless the police and/or military also turns.

http://westernrifleshooters.wordpres...e-in-violence/


Interesting analysis. The meta-terrain map given, mixed with the timing aspect from things like The Fourth Turning anything is really possible. As opposed to everyone vs. the gov't, it may be more apt to view the whole potential scenario as a rural vs. urban thing. City-state cores vs. the surrounding land-owners and serfs.

Plus, in outright conflict, I just don't see many people mustering up to fight for big government, or womens rights or gay marriage or whatever moral cloak would be used to justify it. If the culture war goes hot, what? The Vermont 5th LGBT marching into appalacia to take on the bitter clingers?

No, I think we keep doing the fog in boiling water thing and eventually wake up in 1984, or there's an open insurection, or martial law is established and implemented nationwide over the course of a few hours while most 'muricans are watching the super-bowl.

[snakela]

Re: Gun Control Anyone?

didn't the coroner report all the children were killed with a long gun?

The elected official that had time to be influenced after the narrative was already out there? At this point, there has been do much uncertainty added to this that I don't trust the official narrative, or what this NBC guy says 100%. Perhaps this is the new form of propaganda post internet: confuse and obfuscate to muddle any truth, then hammer hammer hammer your message through.

With the speed this thing has taken off, it wouldn't shock me to eventually learn that Lanza was recruited by some sort of political case officer and put up to the whole thing while the media and lawmakers had their responses pre-canned in a drawer. The interviews of friends and neighbors right after the event all pointed to how weird and unstable he was, so its not like it was a big secret in the wealthy and influential neighborhood he lived. The kind of place with likely human network connections a bit closer to DC than the regular old, poor crazies out here in fly-over country.

I'm not putting that out there as a theory, but stating that it wouldn't surprise me if something that awful was true. These are politicians after all. What's a few kids from the poorer town down the road when stirring up civil wars and coups is a standard tactic?

[LorenS]

Re: Gun Control Anyone?

didn't the coroner report all the children were killed with a long gun?

If the Coroner reported the children were killed with a "long gun" based only on his autopsy findings then he is lying.

If he recovered enough fragments to rebuild the bullets he could be able to make a reasonable guess as to what caliber and weight the bullets were. From that he could only report what the projectile was. The fact that no one is reporting any facts about projectile caliber and weight seems to indicate that someone is not reporting what they really know and is jumping to conclusions and reporting that instead.

The coroner can not tell from what kind of gun the bullets were fired. The coroner can report on the condition of the fragments to give a first guess approximation on impact velocity. This is a very inexact science, though.

Hand gun cartridges can be fired form hand guns, carbines and rifles. Rifle cartridges can be fired from rifles and handguns. The reports, as stated, seem to be missing key facts.

The AR-15 platform shoots bullets from 0.45" to 0.17" including both rifle and handgun cartridges. There are several semi automatic handguns that shoot the .223 Rem cartridge commonly associated with AR-15s.



If 7 round magazines are adequate for civilian self defense as stated in NY, if "No one needs 10 round magazines" as stated by many folks including our esteemed president - then WHY do police need 17 round Glock magazines and why do soldiers need 30 round magazines? Soldiers always work in groups and try to always outnumber the enemy by 4 to 1. Why should they need 30 round magazines? Likewise police almost always team up when they suspect trouble, why do they need high capacity magazines?

If it's good enough for solitary citizens, it should be good enough for teams of police and soldiers. Of course, no one wants to impose limits on police or soldiers that could cost them their lives, so why are we so willing to impose those restrictions on our own people? Do we not care about the lives of regular people? Are police and soldiers somehow more valuable than teachers, farmers or auto mechanics?

[c1ue]

Re: Here it comes...

I've been on an Army firing range and you can't tell the difference between 30 guys with semi autos and 10 guys with full auto (the magazines empty in under a second on full auto).

People who don't shoot guns are stupid {about guns}.

I once went shooting in the boonies west of Lake Tahoe, accompanying a friend who is a police officer that resides nearby. We and our wives shot an assortment of pistols - ranging from his (non-work) Glock to a magnesium .44 magnum.

At no time did more than 1 person fire; we lit off about 200 rounds.

After we came down, there were 3 sheriff's deputies with M-16s waiting for us. Apparently some other residents thought there was a gun battle with automatic weapons occurring.

Would have been a lot scarier without the police officer there; as it was the deputies were apologetic - talking about 'city folk' and even gave us a ride back to the main road.

[vt]

Re: Gun Control Anyone?

[bart]

Re: Gun Control Anyone?

Not quite on the baseball bats.