Gun Control Anyone?

[Ghent12]

Re: Gun Control Anyone?

I've seen a few of his videos. He was hilarious! I can't believe he's dead...

"Don't worry, I am professional Russian."

[don]

Re: Gun Control Anyone?

I've seen a few of his videos. He was hilarious! I can't believe he's dead...

"Don't worry, I am professional Russian."

Note the lack of ear protection. Never heard his assailant coming . . .

[reggie]

Re: Gun Control Anyone?

I would agree.......Chile is a pretty good example....although Argentina next door seems to be a bit closer to forever.

What troubles me about the mass media shaping of the gun control debate are these 2 things:

1.) Mass media completely neglecting acknowledgement of the 2nd amendment's codified role in deterring tyranny. It's a bit spooky.

2.)Mass media emphasis on the evils of special interest influence and control when it comes to the gun lobby, by putting it in an box and failing to acknowledge the other 99.99% of the problem with special interest influence and control polluting the political process. I'm genuinely shocked mass media can point the finger at the gun lobby, but conveniently ignore the rest of it.

In Marcuse's book, One Dimensional Man, one learns that propaganda does not have to be logical. The system only needs to appeal to the man's emotions.

Also, Jacques Ellul discusses this same issue in his book, Propaganda, the Formation of Men's Attitudes.

If you study the history of the right of citizens to bear arms, you would see how it is codified over time to include deterring tyranny:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_...s_Constitution

Just to be clear here, the US Constitution does not grant "rights" to individual Americans, but controls and limits the power of government, established by these same individuals.

So, given this, where does the government think it gets the power to makes laws that control individual possession of firearms? They simply don't possess said power, and are only able to maneuver due to mass ingnorance of the US System of Government.

[charliebrown]

Re: Gun Control Anyone?

"We hold these truths to be self evident. That all men are created equal. that they are endowed unalienable rights, granted to them by the creator. Among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. To protect these right governments are instituted deriving their power by the consent of the governed."

Rights come from God, or if you are an atheist, from the very nature of being human. If gvt grants rights, those rights can be revoked. This is what was happening under the rule of the king.
The king could decide if you live or die. Or founders turned that 180 degrees around. You have a right to exist, free and for your own pleasure. The gvt is supposed to protect your intrinsic rights.
I think most tyranical gvts have the philosophy of granting the individual rights.

[reggie]

Re: Gun Control Anyone?

"We hold these truths to be self evident. That all men are created equal. that they are endowed unalienable rights, granted to them by the creator. Among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. To protect these right governments are instituted deriving their power by the consent of the governed."

Rights come from God, or if you are an atheist, from the very nature of being human. If gvt grants rights, those rights can be revoked. This is what was happening under the rule of the king.
The king could decide if you live or die. Or founders turned that 180 degrees around. You have a right to exist, free and for your own pleasure. The gvt is supposed to protect your intrinsic rights.
I think most tyranical gvts have the philosophy of granting the individual rights.

Yes, the intro to the Declaration of Independence... that's where the source of the American individual's rights were set forth.

Until the 15th Amendment (may need to confirm this) the US Constitution set about defining jurisdiction and power of government only.

Unfortunately, the propaganda machine has convinced much of the population that the US Constitution sets forth, and thereby governs individual rights, by normalizing the frequently mis-spoken term: "constitutional rights", which inaccurately reorients and reframes people's understanding, turing the system on its head.

So, again, I ask, where does government acquire the power to tell any individual what gun they may or may not own. See if you can cite an actual document that grants them said lawmaking ability.

The founders knew that real liberty required tolerance. Hence, in this system of liberty, you're going to have to tolerate my Inalienable right to own a gun and do with it what I please, as long as I don't impact anyone elses God given right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

[shiny!]

Re: Gun Control Anyone?

"We hold these truths to be self evident. That all men are created equal. that they are endowed unalienable rights, granted to them by the creator. Among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. To protect these right governments are instituted deriving their power by the consent of the governed."

Rights come from God, or if you are an atheist, from the very nature of being human. If gvt grants rights, those rights can be revoked. This is what was happening under the rule of the king.
The king could decide if you live or die. Or founders turned that 180 degrees around. You have a right to exist, free and for your own pleasure. The gvt is supposed to protect your intrinsic rights.
I think most tyranical gvts have the philosophy of granting the individual rights.

In recent years the gov't has been playing fast and loose with the term "Bill of Rights". We have the Patients' Bill of Rights, Airline Passengers' Bill of Rights, Consumer Bill of Rights, Privacy Bill of Rights... on and on. These are all pieces of legislation that can be revoked with the stroke of a pen. I think it's being done on purpose to condition citizens sheeple to A. think and feel themselves dependent on government for their rights, and B. accept having their "rights" revoked at the government's whim.

[lektrode]

Re: Gun Control Anyone?

....all pieces of legislation that can be revoked with the stroke of a pen. I think it's being done on purpose to condition citizens sheeple to A. think and feel themselves dependent on government for their rights, and B. accept having their "rights" revoked at the government's whim.

+1
whats happening with the Transportation 'security' Admin is Exhibit A

the other night there was a swarm of them at the airport (interisland/intrastate term'l = non-overseas, or, rather - non-international traffic) - out at the gate area - conducting 'random checks' of who knows what - luckily i get to board early, so missed what happened to the rest behind me - not sure why the 'security' people were all putting on rubber gloves, nor why the rest were delayed by several minutes

absolute absurdity - and THIS is supposed to make us 'feel safe' ?

every time i have to endure TSA activity i'm reminded of how OBL is 'winning' - with one absurd (and PC-motivated) over-reaction by the .gov at a time

[vt]

Re: Gun Control Anyone?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJdhAm_oUUs

[cbr]

Re: Gun Control Anyone?

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/...ns_694984.html
This is really becoming scary. The one and only right expressly protected in the bill of rights, from which all other human rights derive, is that “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.” There are three universal truths of human nature behind that Amendment: 1) that each of the States must maintain enough military power to deter abuse by the federal government or another State; 2) that every responsible citizen must possess enough military power to deter abuse by any government; and 3) all of the fundamental core values behind the greatest civilization in human history depend upon the personal responsibility, self-reliance, self-determination, and self-preservation of its citizens – and this means that the citizens must be effectively armed. This third truth was so obvious to our founders that it was not even worth spelling out, as no one would dream of refuting it, and no one ever dreamed any citizen could ever imagine such a ridiculous idea.
We as a society have already abdicated the first responsibility, realistically gutted the second, and now are actively putting the final nail in the coffin of the third. This is a development which no citizen should let happen. Our various governments are now manipulating the irrational, immature, naïve and emotional ‘guns are bad’ blither of a decadent and uneducated culture, in order to gain the political support for ‘gun control’ -- for their own purposes.
Governments in the US have been creeping absolutely out of control for decades, and now it has become a landslide. Government spending was less than 3% of GDP in 1900, when this country began truly thriving. Less than 1% of working Americans were government employees. Now over 20% take a government paycheck, and countless others work for government contracting companies. Government spending is over 40% of GDP. Our lives are not better as a result. To all would-be Americans who continue to watch or even support the spread of our various governments, and now think it is a good idea to completely emaciate the last remaining credible power of the citizenry against abuses by government or criminals through ‘gun control’, you should remember a proverb older than civilization itself: Only the powerful can choose to be pacifists - the rest are forced to endure it.

[shiny!]

Re: Gun Control Anyone?

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/...ns_694984.html
This is really becoming scary. The one and only right expressly protected in the bill of rights, from which all other human rights derive, is that “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.” There are three universal truths of human nature behind that Amendment: 1) that each of the States must maintain enough military power to deter abuse by the federal government or another State; 2) that every responsible citizen must possess enough military power to deter abuse by any government; and 3) all of the fundamental core values behind the greatest civilization in human history depend upon the personal responsibility, self-reliance, self-determination, and self-preservation of its citizens – and this means that the citizens must be effectively armed. This third truth was so obvious to our founders that it was not even worth spelling out, as no one would dream of refuting it, and no one ever dreamed any citizen could ever imagine such a ridiculous idea.
We as a society have already abdicated the first responsibility, realistically gutted the second, and now are actively putting the final nail in the coffin of the third. This is a development which no citizen should let happen. Our various governments are now manipulating the irrational, immature, naïve and emotional ‘guns are bad’ blither of a decadent and uneducated culture, in order to gain the political support for ‘gun control’ -- for their own purposes.
Governments in the US have been creeping absolutely out of control for decades, and now it has become a landslide. Government spending was less than 3% of GDP in 1900, when this country began truly thriving. Less than 1% of working Americans were government employees. Now over 20% take a government paycheck, and countless others work for government contracting companies. Government spending is over 40% of GDP. Our lives are not better as a result. To all would-be Americans who continue to watch or even support the spread of our various governments, and now think it is a good idea to completely emaciate the last remaining credible power of the citizenry against abuses by government or criminals through ‘gun control’, you should remember a proverb older than civilization itself: Only the powerful can choose to be pacifists - the rest are forced to endure it.

We need a Like button at iTulip.

[reggie]

Re: Gun Control Anyone?

In recent years the gov't has been playing fast and loose with the term "Bill of Rights". We have the Patients' Bill of Rights, Airline Passengers' Bill of Rights, Consumer Bill of Rights, Privacy Bill of Rights... on and on. These are all pieces of legislation that can be revoked with the stroke of a pen. I think it's being done on purpose to condition citizens sheeple to A. think and feel themselves dependent on government for their rights, and B. accept having their "rights" revoked at the government's whim.

Shiny, besides confusing the public on the issue of the source of our rights (= GOD), this is being done as part of the transition from state-based-governance to global-corporate-governance, slowly indoctrinating public on their "new" source of "rights".

+1
whats happening with the Transportation 'security' Admin is Exhibit A

the other night there was a swarm of them at the airport (interisland/intrastate term'l = non-overseas, or, rather - non-international traffic) - out at the gate area - conducting 'random checks' of who knows what - luckily i get to board early, so missed what happened to the rest behind me - not sure why the 'security' people were all putting on rubber gloves, nor why the rest were delayed by several minutes

absolute absurdity - and THIS is supposed to make us 'feel safe' ?

every time i have to endure TSA activity i'm reminded of how OBL is 'winning' - with one absurd (and PC-motivated) over-reaction by the .gov at a time

This is to internalize fear through the implementation of "random" search & seizure.

[shiny!]

Here it comes...

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/...on_695381.html

"My understanding is the vice president's going to provide a range of steps that we can take to reduce gun violence," said Obama. "Some of them will require legislation, some of them I can accomplish through executive action. And so I will be reviewing those today, and as I said, I will speak in more detail to what we're going to go ahead and propose later in the week. But I'm confident that there are some steps that we can take that don't require legislation and that are within my authority as president, and where you get a step that, has the opportunity to reduce the possibility of gun violence, then i want to go ahead and take it."

I'm reminded of Obama telling Putin that he would have more freedom to do the things he wanted after he got re-elected. It didn't take long.

[metalman]

Re: Here it comes...

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/...on_695381.html



I'm reminded of Obama telling Putin that he would have more freedom to do the things he wanted after he got re-elected. It didn't take long.

pattern matching test...

In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were round ed up and exterminated.

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

Germany established gun control in 1938. From 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

that in the bad old days... before the nanny state came to look after us...

The United Kingdom established gun control in 1997. It has one of the lowest rates of gun homicides in the world with 0.07 recorded intentional homicides committed with a firearm per 100,000 inhabitants in 2009 compared to the United States' 3.0 (over 40 times higher) and to Germany's 0.21 (3 times higher). However, the overall rate of homicide by all means, 1.2 per 100k, is significantly higher than that in most comparable European nations, e.g. Germany (0.8).

[LorenS]

Re: Here it comes...

Waco puts Sandy Hook into perspective. Instead of using their brains the feds pulled a frontal assault on a compound known to contain children. The claims on the warrant were known by the agents involved to be speculative. They got one gun dealer to say "I know other guys who have used parts to make illegal guns so maybe these guys did too.... " Neighbors claimed to have heard "automatic" gunfire which is complete BS. I've been on an Army firing range and you can't tell the difference between 30 guys with semi autos and 10 guys with full auto (the magazines empty in under a second on full auto).

This one is new to me, but apparently it makes the rounds often:
http://voxvocispublicus.homestead.co...of-Athens.html

[vt]

Re: Here it comes...

http://dailycaller.com/2013/01/13/wa...ond-amendment/