I was in the Vietnam border town with China.

[touchring]

The Vietnamese Dong is used interchangeable with US dollars at a rate of 1:20,000 (Dollarsong). Almost everyone accepted US dollars, and most in fact ask for the Dollar instead of the Dong. The dollar is used to buy food and basic necessities.

And if you ask, how about the Chinese Yuan - it's useless here. But it's not just the Chinese Yuan, even the Euro is useless. Money changers here only change the Dollar, other currencies are not used.

The irony is that there are actually very few Americans in this part of Vietnam. I've not met any. Most tourists here are from Australia and Europe.

Since North Vietnam is very dirt poor, I come to a conclusion when it comes to an apocalypse, subsistence living situation, what you need for survival almost anywhere in the world is Dollars, and not gold.

[GRG55]

Re: I was in the Vietnam border town with China.

The Vietnamese Dong is used interchangeable with US dollars at a rate of 1:20,000 (Dollarsong). Almost everyone accepted US dollars, and most in fact ask for the Dollar instead of the Dong. The dollar is used to buy food and basic necessities.

And if you ask, how about the Chinese Yuan - it's useless here. But it's not just the Chinese Yuan, even the Euro is useless. Money changers here only change the Dollar, other currencies are not used.

The irony is that there are actually very few Americans in this part of Vietnam. I've not met any. Most tourists here are from Australia and Europe.

Since North Vietnam is very dirt poor, I come to a conclusion when it comes to an apocalypse, subsistence living situation, what you need for survival almost anywhere in the world is Dollars, and not gold.

Reminded me of something I posted back in October 2007

...I always keep a fistful of US$'s in my wallet because no matter where I end up I can always convert them into anything I need - taxi fare, food, whatever. One of my amusements when travelling on business is to bargain with the vendors in the local souks and markets (good way to gauge the local economy, and chat up locals). A couple of years ago I ended up in Osh, a remote town in Kyrgyzstan in the valley north of the Hindu Kush near the Uzbek, Tajik and Chinese borders. Thriving market with everything for sale from excellent ag products to consumer goods...Even in this isolated and remote corner of Central Asia, the US currency was prized above all others. A euro note won't be accepted by anybody there. It is going to be a long, long time before "2 or 3 billion small savers accumulating bits of paper (US$) in countries around the world (who know little and could care less about the US Fed)" will stop using/saving/hoarding the US$.

Point I'm trying to make is that while we trash talk the US$ and switch to gold as a preferred store of value, we shouldn't lose sight of that other function of "money", and the fact in that capacity, for much of the world, the US$ is still the gold standard, and IMHO not likely to be displaced any time soon (no matter what the Fed and other CB's do).

[Thailandnotes]

Re: I was in the Vietnam border town with China.

It’s a hangover from the war. Vietnam has had a unique relationship with the dollar. The dollar often increases in value inside Vietnam while decreasing against all other world currencies, especially in far flung places like Sapa. Dollars frequently become scarce and Vietnamese panic because they are forever hedging against quick drops in the Dong. When half a country’s population is currency speculating, things can get weird.
Gold is also a safe haven there, but not for the taxi driver.

[lakedaemonian]

Re: I was in the Vietnam border town with China.

As I understand it......some weird things are going on inside of Vietnam regarding gold and who are allowed to sell it(I think banks have muscled into a monopoly there? Bank balance sheet problems in Vietnam?).

I know nearby in Cambodia, there's a strong preference for US Dollars as well.......and Yuan/Euro/Yen are not easily convertible in a restaurant like Us Dollars.

What's strange is how Afghan currency...the Aff is so widely accepted...while it's exchange rate took a small hit against the US dollar a little bit ago.....it's still the Aff that is widely and easily used(although US Dollars are often used for very large transactions).

There's also been a spike in gold being flown out of Kabul to Dubai on Safi Airlines.....possibly due to a rumor of a maximum of $20K declared cash allowed to be expatriated.

[gnk]

Re: I was in the Vietnam border town with China.

The world economy does not hinge on second tier developing nations - especially their villages.

Thinking back 15-20+ years ago, whenever I travelled in the developed world, the US dollar was king. I was able to buy a lot of stuff, and thoroughly enjoy myself whenever I went out. Today, in those same countries, it's a different matter. The dollar doesn't go nearly as far.

When I moved abroad a few years ago, instead of keeping most of my liquid funds in US dollars, I bought gold. That gold I would sell occasionally, over a period of time, to pay bills, and it has allowed me to live work-free, while I looked for work, for a much longer time, than if I kept my liquid savings in US Dollars.

Remote villages are always behind the times, by several decades. Unfortunately, they always pay the price for that.

[touchring]

Re: I was in the Vietnam border town with China.

It’s a hangover from the war. Vietnam has had a unique relationship with the dollar. The dollar often increases in value inside Vietnam while decreasing against all other world currencies, especially in far flung places like Sapa. Dollars frequently become scarce and Vietnamese panic because they are forever hedging against quick drops in the Dong. When half a country’s population is currency speculating, things can get weird.
Gold is also a safe haven there, but not for the taxi driver.

Precisely, gold is not for everyday transaction. You don't use gold to buy a bunch of bananas or a baguette.

It may not seem obvious, but the US dollar is in actual fact the safest currency in the world that will exist even 50 years from today. The US is the most politically stable country, has the most natural resources and has secure borders protected by oceans, safe from all World Wars, safe from annexation.

The EU: Little natural resources and oil, politically very unstable due to the EU.
China: An Arab spring political timebomb (a premier that earned billions while peasants in Xinjiang immolate themselves out of despair), little oil, polluted environment, weak military that can't even handle small Japan - a joke to speak, soon aging population due to one child policy, Soviet style economy.
Japan: No oil, virtually no natural resources, aging population.
Russia: A joke to speak - the weapons it supplied to Syria can't even handle mobs. They are good only for shooting unarmed civilians like what happens in Xinjiang and tibet.

[Thailandnotes]

Re: I was in the Vietnam border town with China.

It may not seem obvious, but the US dollar is in actual fact the safest currency in the world that will exist even 50 years from today.

That's a very bold prediction, the 50 year part.

[touchring]

Re: I was in the Vietnam border town with China.

That's a very bold prediction, the 50 year part.

Bold one and but there's an even bolder prediction.

I predict that China may attempt to takeover parts of Indochina in 50 years after the takeover of the South China Sea is complete. It could be earlier or it could it later, depending on how quickly the US falters, but only a matter of time.

[jpatter666]

Re: I was in the Vietnam border town with China.

As I understand it......some weird things are going on inside of Vietnam regarding gold and who are allowed to sell it(I think banks have muscled into a monopoly there? Bank balance sheet problems in Vietnam?).

I know nearby in Cambodia, there's a strong preference for US Dollars as well.......and Yuan/Euro/Yen are not easily convertible in a restaurant like Us Dollars.

What's strange is how Afghan currency...the Aff is so widely accepted...while it's exchange rate took a small hit against the US dollar a little bit ago.....it's still the Aff that is widely and easily used(although US Dollars are often used for very large transactions).

There's also been a spike in gold being flown out of Kabul to Dubai on Safi Airlines.....possibly due to a rumor of a maximum of $20K declared cash allowed to be expatriated.

ATMs in Cambodia give US dollars. Unreal -- we stocked back up.

I agree, dollars *never* had a problem throughout our trip in Asia. The only issue we had was on the quality of the bills -- some vendors won't accept damaged bills (especially Myanmar) and many others try to give you their damaged bills.

At least one vendor was honest about this telling me that as an American I could get full value for the bill where she could not.

Touchring -- were you in Lao Cai? We crossed into China there after travelling around northern Vietnam. I agree, very few Americans (we've had many discussions on this) -- we often got questioned on our trips because we were a reasonable rarity.

[jpatter666]

Re: I was in the Vietnam border town with China.

Bold one and but there's an even bolder prediction.

I predict that China may attempt to takeover parts of Indochina in 50 years after the takeover of the South China Sea is complete. It could be earlier or it could it later, depending on how quickly the US falters, but only a matter of time.

Good luck -- those countries hated (and still hate) the Chinese. I think "attempt" is the operative word.

And why head south? North is mineral-rich Mongolia and Siberia -- and Russia is already faltering.

[BadJuju]

Re: I was in the Vietnam border town with China.

Precisely, gold is not for everyday transaction. You don't use gold to buy a bunch of bananas or a baguette.

It may not seem obvious, but the US dollar is in actual fact the safest currency in the world that will exist even 50 years from today. The US is the most politically stable country, has the most natural resources and has secure borders protected by oceans, safe from all World Wars, safe from annexation.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. Not necessarily the 50-year part, but the US has a lot going for it that most other countries do not. I think the gloom-and-doom scenarios, at least with regards to the US, are much hyped.

[c1ue]

Re: I was in the Vietnam border town with China.

Meh. A lot of people said that about the pound...before that empire collapsed. And the Spanish real before THAT empire collapsed. And lets not even go into the Romans with their coin shaving and what not.

The dollar will last as long as people have faith in it. What's amusing is that you seem to think this faith is unshakable despite the massive shaving of dollar value that is going on every day by the very nation that spawned it.

How many more trillions in debt must be accumulated before you consider the possibility that foreigners who aren't required to use dollars will consider dumping them?

As for the US being more stable - I personally think the fact that there is even discussion over the currency of the richest, militarily most powerful nation in the world vs. the currency of a 3rd world nation like Vietnam is a negative sign. Why wouldn't the Vietnamese use a foreign currency which their own government can't debase?

But as noted by gnk, Vietnamese villagers use of dollars is irrelevant.

What is relevant is that the US dollar composition in Central banks is falling, and the US dollar denominated world trade percentage is falling, and the US government continues to propagate policies which both weaken the dollar and allow the US economy to be weak.

[BadJuju]

Re: I was in the Vietnam border town with China.

The dollar will last as long as people have faith in it. What's amusing is that you seem to think this faith is unshakable despite the massive shaving of dollar value that is going on every day by the very nation that spawned it.

What about all of the currency debasement being pursued by other countries out there? Aside from being the most prominent, how is the US really any different?

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: I was in the Vietnam border town with China.

Reminded me of something I posted back in October 2007

Correct, reserve currencies do not collapse they fade away.....

[touchring]

Re: I was in the Vietnam border town with China.

Good luck -- those countries hated (and still hate) the Chinese. I think "attempt" is the operative word.

And why head south? North is mineral-rich Mongolia and Siberia -- and Russia is already faltering.

North is possible, but Russia is no push over. Hilter can attest to that. The Chinese are also no fan of tundras or gaming. They are city and farm people.

Culturally, south is very similar to China and there's a huge Chinese population in Vietnam and Thailand that can be assimilated quite easily. Once the takeover is completed, China can easily move 50 million people south to completely replace the indigenous khmer and likes population.