Fracking fears: dead livestock

[Raz]

Re: Fracking fears: dead livestock

Raz,
Around here-- SW of San Antonio, TX, the main gas strata is around 7,000 to 8,000 ft deep. For perspective, my water well is 500' and it's the third layer of water we hit as we drilled. The first two were clear and pure, but had too much salt. (This entire area was underwater for eons and gradually the land rose and the water receded to the present Gulf of Mexico.)
Previous oil wells ran around 5-7,000' mostly so the gas is being found just a little deeper. It varies somewhat. This is the Eagle Ford Shale play.
Water around here is usually from two sources--existing wells originally made for farm irrigation but sold to the gas companies instead or from new wells drilled. Usually, a well will be pumped over a few weeks' time to fill a large plastic-lined pond. With luck one pond can serve several gas wells by using temporary aluminum piping and auxillary pumps if needed. After fracking's done, the liner can be taken up and the pond bulldozed back to level land if the landowner prefers. Mostly, I'd expect they'll remain to provide livestock watering or wildlife habitat.
I was told a local commercial water company pulls from a 12,000' well, but I haven't confirmed that. It does have good water, though.
I have had my well water commercially tested before any drilling started in our area. Cost me a couple thousand but it's effectively an insurance policy. I do not expect to collect on the policy. I had no hydrocarbons when tested and have detected no effects after a couple of years of drilling and fracking within about a half mile of my well.
It seems a little scary when an article collects every true or alleged possible ill effect and puts it into one place. I read lots of allegations in Chomsky's find, but little proof. if my testing shows proof, I'll let you know. Don't hold your breath.
Meanwhile, I have personally been on a 3 hour pad tour of my local drilling operation and have been impressed by the professionalism and cleanliness of the operation. My daughter home-schools my grandchildren and we invited some more home-schoolers and all went over for a visit. I finally learned how the heck they make that turn to horizontal drilling.
Hope this helps. Stetts

It helps quite a bit, Stetts.
Thanks for all the info!

[shiny!]

Re: Fracking fears: dead livestock

Raz,
Around here-- SW of San Antonio, TX, the main gas strata is around 7,000 to 8,000 ft deep. For perspective, my water well is 500' and it's the third layer of water we hit as we drilled. The first two were clear and pure, but had too much salt. (This entire area was underwater for eons and gradually the land rose and the water receded to the present Gulf of Mexico.)
Previous oil wells ran around 5-7,000' mostly so the gas is being found just a little deeper. It varies somewhat. This is the Eagle Ford Shale play.
Water around here is usually from two sources--existing wells originally made for farm irrigation but sold to the gas companies instead or from new wells drilled. Usually, a well will be pumped over a few weeks' time to fill a large plastic-lined pond. With luck one pond can serve several gas wells by using temporary aluminum piping and auxillary pumps if needed. After fracking's done, the liner can be taken up and the pond bulldozed back to level land if the landowner prefers. Mostly, I'd expect they'll remain to provide livestock watering or wildlife habitat.
I was told a local commercial water company pulls from a 12,000' well, but I haven't confirmed that. It does have good water, though.
I have had my well water commercially tested before any drilling started in our area. Cost me a couple thousand but it's effectively an insurance policy. I do not expect to collect on the policy. I had no hydrocarbons when tested and have detected no effects after a couple of years of drilling and fracking within about a half mile of my well.
It seems a little scary when an article collects every true or alleged possible ill effect and puts it into one place. I read lots of allegations in Chomsky's find, but little proof. if my testing shows proof, I'll let you know. Don't hold your breath.
Meanwhile, I have personally been on a 3 hour pad tour of my local drilling operation and have been impressed by the professionalism and cleanliness of the operation. My daughter home-schools my grandchildren and we invited some more home-schoolers and all went over for a visit. I finally learned how the heck they make that turn to horizontal drilling.
Hope this helps. Stetts

Thanks for sharing your experience, Stetts; that's encouraging news.

With rising population and a protracted drought, the Edwards Aquifer is being doubly challenged. How's it holding up? What's your long-term water outlook? I'm thinking of moving back to the Austin/San Marcos or Fredericksburg area... wondering if I'd be leaving one desert for a soon-to-be another.

And just to scratch the itch of curiosity, how do the drillers make that horizontal turn???

[GRG55]

Re: Fracking fears: dead livestock

GRG55 --

I get your point completely - oh no, they have to see a drill pad! The optics are bad!

On the other hand, the issue of poisonous chemicals getting into groundwater and the rest of the environment (and food chain) is a legitimate concern. Perhaps people would "stop using the stuff" if the issue were made more pressing -- and "solutions" like fracking taken off the board a priori.

I don't disagree. After Love Canal (and gawd knows how many other examples) no one can claim that there is not a need for society to be vigilant. Extremely vigilant. Unfortunately our society seems to have abandoned fact based decision making for "optics" and the 15 second sound-bite. There is, for example, the impression that hydraulic fracturing of petroleum wells is something quite new. In fact it has been in use for more than 6 decades. What is different now is the size of the fracturing programs being applied to the long horizontal sections in these wells, and the increasingly complex chemical mixtures that are being concocted to carry the fracture proppant and reduce the flowing friction during pumping operations...

[reggie]

Re: Fracking fears: dead livestock

Reggie,
Not sure, but in another life I was a dairy farmer in WI, milking a herd of 50 holsteins. Calving during winter was always a little dicey and on rare occasions I'd have an unexpected calving at night where the calf's tail would freeze. If that happened, it was likely it would lose the ear tips as well. Looked just like the photo. Just sayin'.
Meanwhile, I think Metalman's got it nailed.
Hope this helps. Stetts

Yup, helps a great deal, and explains the photo to me. So, Photoshop not required.

[DRumsfeld2000]

Re: Fracking fears: dead livestock

I just read this:-

Finally, some unquestionable unanimity: everyone wants to be in the Permian basin, the focal point of which is Lynn County, Texas.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/itg-e...#ixzz2EQtqNYSw

[GRG55]

Re: Fracking fears: dead livestock

...everyone wants to be in the Permian basin, the focal point of which is Lynn County, Texas.

"The best place to find oil is where its been found before..."

[santafe2]

Re: Fracking fears: dead livestock

In the midst of the domestic energy boom, livestock on farms near oil- and gas-drilling operations nationwide have been quietly falling sick and dying.

Food and water are still easily available. Fossil fuel is, apparently, in short supply. No one cares about some farmer's sick animals as long as there is plenty of meat at the grocery. No one with a public voice in the US is hungry but many are concerned about the cost of energy. Currently there are more humans in the US that want to be warm and mobile than want a good meal. I suppose that will change over time but until it does, no one cares about the sick cow.

[doom&gloom]

Re: Fracking fears: dead livestock

plus you can now make money from it with high oil prices, and you can scam investor with low gas prices.

[aaron]

Re: Fracking fears: dead livestock

So, farmers want to get royalties AND continue to farm on the same land? Wow.

Oil drilling is not environmentally friendly. If you want to farm, do not let these frackers drill in your town. There will be spills. There will be accidents.


Plus, these #$@@#4 will still sell their contaminated beef/veggies to market if they can get away with it.

Greed.

[stetts]

Re: Fracking fears: dead livestock

aaron,
As to royalties and farming too.... This is nothing new or unusual. Surface and subsurface rights have been distinct property rights for centuries. You can buy any number of subdivisions of this. Just because I own the surface rights does not imply I have everything unless the deed shows it. For example, I own 77 acres subject to previously sold mineral rights reserved by others. But they didn't reserve everything, and not in perpetuity.
I can graze, farm or use the surface without restriction, save for the right of the mineral owners to extract what I leased to them. I have leased a gas company the mineral rights from 1000 to 7000 feet below the surface for three years, renewable for another two if more rent is paid. Then, they have the right to do seismology but must pay rent for the privilege and compensate for any surface damage over specified amounts. Further, if they'd like to locate a drill pad on my land, that's a different payment to be negotiated. For example, maybe I'd like the gravel that is placed to make a good surface for the drilling operation. I can negotiate for them to leave it there and I can scoop it up and use it on my roads. And finally, if there is actual production, I get a set percentage of the gross take. In TX, sale of mineral rights does NOT include sale of water rights unless it's stated. And if desired, you can sell only certain strata of water rights, too. By the way, in WI, I sold the timber rights to a portion of my land, but still retained the land. Same deal, I think.
So yes, I am grazing the surface and have leased the mineral rights. If you think that odd or greedy, ok.

Yeah, don't let 'em drill anywhere. How do you think that'd work out? Have you visited a modern well drilling operation? I have, and took our home-schooled kids as well. It's quite an operation. The drillers have no interest in contaminating anything simply because it's too expensive to fix. Even the paper trash goes into wind-proof trailers and hauled out.
Yes, there will be accidents. A local blowout two years ago killed two workers and burned a third. Last year a bad car accident killed three people. I sure don't want to allow cars anywhere near here but those $%@#%^ county police just won't listen.
Hope this helps. Stetts

[aaron]

Re: Fracking fears: dead livestock

The greed part I refer to is selling contaminated food while collecting royalties. Not leasing your land. I also believe 99% of wells will not cause problems. The 1%, however, as the potential to truly destroy some very important water resources.

Yeah, don't let 'em drill anywhere.

I would prefer to see frakking "zones" separate from food, people, aquifers, etc. Yes, I do not want them to drill just anywhere. But that is your local community's discretion.

There is too much secrecy involved and people should never be forced to be quiet because of settlements. It does not pass the smell test.


Thanks for the primer. It sounds like land ownership can be very profitable in Texas.

[reggie]

Re: Fracking fears: dead livestock

And the Energy vs Food debate is underway. Guess the article served it's purpose.

[cbr]

Re: Fracking fears: dead livestock

the complete and totally fucked up 21st century american bullshit is so prevalent in this thread!

fracing is not a significant threat to anyone or anything except the recession we are in.

80 year old wells with bad or no casing could potentially be, (and already are if they ever will be), but a modern well is not nearly the same.

what an incredible joke, somehow our society manages to get EVERY SINGLE THING, ABSOLUTELY AND EXACTLY AS WRONG AS POSSIBLE.

'government is bad' - more government
'corporations are bad' - more government
'wall street is bad' - more government, except for wall street
people are bad - more government
guns are bad - more government
weed is bad - more government
fracing is bad - more government
unemployment is bad - more government
lawsuits are bad - more government
privacy is bad, freedom is bad.... oh wait!?


blah blah blah

[reggie]

Re: Fracking fears: dead livestock

the complete and totally fucked up 21st century american bullshit is so prevalent in this thread! fracing is not a significant threat to anyone or anything except the recession we are in. 80 year old wells with bad or no casing could potentially be, (and already are if they ever will be), but a modern well is not nearly the same. what an incredible joke, somehow our society manages to get EVERY SINGLE THING, ABSOLUTELY AND EXACTLY AS WRONG AS POSSIBLE. 'government is bad' - more government 'corporations are bad' - more government 'wall street is bad' - more government, except for wall street people are bad - more government guns are bad - more government weed is bad - more government fracing is bad - more government unemployment is bad - more government lawsuits are bad - more government privacy is bad, freedom is bad.... oh wait!? blah blah blah

control... control.... and more control..... all in alignment witht the Club of Rome's First Global Revolution manifesto.


Humanity is the problem, at least according to the Club of Rome, and the solution is to convince the public of this so that will choose to limit our resource consuption and ultimately our population.


Hence, let me add a few more to the above list...

• meat is bad => convince the public to stop eating meat, but if they must, eat GMO soy-fed meat
• farming (food production) is bad => turn over farm land to supranational bodies who will limit it's use
• exhaling CO2 is bad => supranational bodies strongarm gov'ts to severally limit CO2 output
• energy is bad => convince the public that petroleum is a limit resource and must be curtailed

This list should be developed into a book.

[Adeptus]

Re: Fracking fears: dead livestock

Let's all just calm down and sing along to this hOILaday oil cheer, shall we? ...

If you're not the singing type, maybe you can try your hand at playing OILIGARCHY (over 6 million downloads). There's a free flash version you can play in your web browser here. This fun game takes into account speed of extracting new oil fields vs 1/2 depleted ones, let's you manage your budget which includes funding political parties during elections, it requires you to keep an eye on GDP as it influences oil demand. You can also drill in foreign countries to expand your profits, but must manage the politicos in those countries through bribes and what not. Also over time, various cultural events may affect your business, like the green revolution.

Video of the game in action: