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  • Curiosity: A New Find?


    self portrait

    By KENNETH CHANG

    The Mars rover Curiosity has found something — something noteworthy, in a pinch of Martian sand. But what is it?

    The scientists working on the mission who know are not saying. Outside of that team, lots of people are guessing.

    The intrigue started last week when John P. Grotzinger, the Mars mission’s project scientist, told National Public Radio: “This data is going to be one for the history books. It’s looking really good.”

    And then he declined to say anything more.

    Fossils? Living microbial Martians? Maybe the carbon-based molecules known as organics, which are the building blocks of life? That so much excitement could be set off by a passing hint reflects the enduring fascination of both scientists and nonscientists with Mars.

    “It could be all kinds of things,” said Peter H. Smith, a planetary scientist at the University of Arizona who was the principal investigator for NASA’s earlier Phoenix Mars mission but is not involved with Curiosity. “If it’s historic, I think it’s organics. That would be historic in my book.”

    Dr. Grotzinger and other Curiosity scientists will announce their latest findings on Monday in San Francisco at a meeting of the American Geophysical Union.

    Do not expect pictures of Martians, though.

    Guy Webster, a spokesman for NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif., which operates Curiosity, said the findings would be “interesting” rather than “earthshaking.”

    Mr. Webster noted that “a really big announcement,” if one should occur, would most likely be made at NASA headquarters in Washington and not at an academic conference.

    Whatever is revealed will be linked to the work of Curiosity’s sophisticated chemistry laboratory instrument, Sample Analysis at Mars — SAM, for short. The rover’s robotic arm dropped the first bit of sand and dust into the instrument on Nov. 9, and the scientists have been analyzing and contemplating ever since.

    One of the main goals of SAM is to identify organic molecules, but it would be a big surprise for organics to show up in a first look at a sand sample selected more as a test exercise than with the expectation of a breakthrough discovery.

    Curiosity will be headed toward layers of clays, which could be rich in organics and are believed to have formed during a warm and wet era early in the planet’s history. But Curiosity has months to drive before arriving at those locations.

    And the Curiosity scientists have learned through experience that it pays to double-check their results before trumpeting them. An initial test of the Martian atmosphere by the same instrument showed the presence of methane, which would have been a major discovery, possibly indicating the presence of methane-generating microbes living on Mars today. But when the scientists ran the experiment again, the signs of methane disappeared, leading them to conclude that the methane found in the first test had come from air that the spacecraft had carried to Mars from its launching spot in Florida.

    Mr. Webster, who was present during the interview with NPR, said Dr. Grotzinger had been talking more generally about the quality of data coming back from Curiosity and was not suggesting that the data contained a breakthrough surprise. “I don’t think he had in mind, ‘Here’s some particular chemical that’s been found,’ ” Mr. Webster said. “That’s not my impression of the conversation.”

    On Twitter, Curiosity chimed in: “What did I discover on Mars? That rumors spread fast online. My team considers this whole mission ‘one for the history books.’ ” (The public information staff at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory writes the posts for the rover.)
    This would not be the first time that rumors eclipsed the actual findings from Mars.

    In 2002, the Mars Odyssey orbiter found evidence of frozen reservoirs of water beneath the surface of Mars, leading to breathless rumors in the British press that the Bush administration was about to announce a commitment to send astronauts there within 20 years. The White House remained quiet.

    Dr. Smith, the Phoenix Mars scientist, had a similar experience in 2008 when Aviation Week reported, “The White House has been alerted by NASA about plans to make an announcement soon on major new Phoenix lander discoveries concerning the ‘potential for life’ on Mars.”

    “The blogosphere lit up,” Dr. Smith said.

    At a hastily arranged news conference, Dr. Smith revealed the actual news: chemicals known as perchlorates had been found in the soil. “The public was not interested in that,” he said.

    If Curiosity’s pinch of sand indeed contained organics, it would again revive the possibilities of life on Mars. For now, Curiosity scientists are still analyzing the data.

    “I do want to temper expectations,” said Mr. Webster, the spokesman. “But then again, I don’t know exactly what they’re going to say they’ve found.”


    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/28/sc...gewanted=print

  • #2
    Re: Curiosity: A New Find?

    To which degree does funding for NASA depend on its perceived importance by members of Congress, which in turn might be influenced by popular opinion?

    Might be a big factor in trying to create hypes and to overstate importance of findings.

    Which in itself should perhaps indicate that the funding model is wrong... the same can be said about a lot of scientific research too.
    engineer with little (or even no) economic insight

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Curiosity: A New Find?

      Originally posted by don View Post

      The Mars rover Curiosity has found something — something noteworthy...The scientists working on the mission who know are not saying...Do not expect pictures of Martians, though...
      NASA are playing coy, eh?

      Anonymous sources leaked this photo

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Curiosity: A New Find?

        Is Curiosity packing a drone?

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Curiosity: A New Find?

          Originally posted by don View Post
          Is Curiosity packing a drone?
          The joke image was actually created for the old Spirit rover, which would often see part of its own solar array (notice the rude sign on the ground mentioning Spirit). Below is an authentic image from Spirit that is similar and shows those angled solar panels in lower left corner. I couldn't help myself, that comic image popped back into my head and I had to post it.




          .

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Curiosity: A New Find?

            That's precisely the same source image used to make the photoshop job actually. You can see that the rocks on the ground are identical.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Curiosity: A New Find?

              Meanwhile in Colorado...


              Nov 13, 2012 CNN: "That is not an airplane, that is not a helicopter, those are not birds, I can't identify it. As it fits the definition, it's an Unidentified Flying Object" -Steve Cowell, former commercial pilot, instructor, and FAA accident prevention counciler.




              One day, hopefuly within my life time, we will receive full official disclosure (not just partial: Canada, Russia, UK, New Zealand, Denmark, Japan); then we'll look back at the decades of time and millions of man hours we've put into finding (and funding the search for) ET and feel pretty ridiculous - to say nothing of potential technological exchanges that would have a) solved our global energy crisis b) global polution c) massive animal/plant species loss d) millions of unecessary human deaths due to incurable diseases, etc.... when they've been visiting us for dozens, hundreds or possibly even thousands of years right here on Earth.
              Last edited by Adeptus; November 28, 2012, 03:32 PM.
              Warning: Network Engineer talking economics!

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Curiosity: A New Find?

                I saw that Denver video some weeks ago, and the gestalt of it leaves me the impression of something small close to the camera -a little insect, or a wind-blown seed.
                There was famous video of mysterious objects at the opening of Mexico's cave of the swallows, which turned out to be insects near the camera.

                I bet two cameras 10 feet apart aimed at the same distant point in Denver would show an object in only one camera at any single time.
                But I am a big fan of unknown possibilities, and keep my mind open. To quote Shakespeare:

                There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
                Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

                Hamlet Act 1, scene 5, 159–167

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Curiosity: A New Find?

                  Originally posted by thriftyandboringinohio View Post
                  I saw that Denver video some weeks ago, and the gestalt of it leaves me the impression of something small close to the camera -a little insect, or a wind-blown seed.
                  There was famous video of mysterious objects at the opening of Mexico's cave of the swallows, which turned out to be insects near the camera.

                  I bet two cameras 10 feet apart aimed at the same distant point in Denver would show an object in only one camera at any single time.
                  But I am a big fan of unknown possibilities, and keep my mind open. To quote Shakespeare:

                  There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
                  Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

                  Hamlet Act 1, scene 5, 159–167

                  Right... so you're suggesting at 1:11 of that video, the newscrew went out with their own camera and confirmed the sighting - so in this second recording, with expert videographers on site from the news channel, the same seed / bug just happen to show up? Not impossible, but barely plausible.

                  Maybe you can also explain the one a couple of years back that resulted in the Chinese authorities to force a full shutdown the Chinese airport in the middle of the day grounding all outbound flights. It's not like China to admit they are so vulnerable as to shut down a public airport, ah but of course officials later stated it was part of a military test. Let's see, they can come up with aircraft that far surpass the capability of the USA, but they forgot to pro-actively notify and schedule a public airport shutdown to showoff their wares? And what a strange venue to do so.. in Mongolia? Right, I bet homeland security must be very concerned about these new Chinese military planes.



                  Another TV reporting on the event with interviews from airport officials...



                  Let me save you the trouble, it seems "they" concluded it was just another airplane. Wow, it sure fooled a lot of airport professionals, pilots and thousands of people that witnessed it. Good thing they were all delusional. "Nothing to see here, move along now!"
                  Last edited by Adeptus; November 28, 2012, 04:08 PM.
                  Warning: Network Engineer talking economics!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Curiosity: A New Find?

                    Originally posted by Adeptus View Post
                    Right... so you're suggesting at 1:11 of that video, the newscrew went out with their own camera and confirmed the sighting - so in this second recording, with expert videographers on site from the news channel, the same seed / bug just happen to show up? Not impossible, but barely plausible.

                    Maybe you can also explain the one a couple of years back that resulted in the Chinese authorities to force a full shutdown the Chinese airport in the middle of the day grounding all outbound flights. It's not like China to admit they are so vulnerable as to shut down a public airport, ah but of course officials later stated it was part of a military test. Let's see, they can come up with aircraft that far surpass the capability of the USA, but they forgot to pro-actively notify and schedule a public airport shutdown to showoff their wares? And what a strange venue to do so.. in Mongolia? Right, I bet homeland security must be very concerned about these new Chinese military planes.

                    I did not mean to offend, and am certainly not well-studied on this phenomenon, other than enjoying reading about these sorts of things.
                    Please consider my comments light conversation and small talk.

                    My suggestion for two cameras is based on the fact the second crew was able to go to the spot and easily film the phenomenon a second time.
                    I presume a third crew would have similar success, and the two-camera set-up would give strong results either way. If the object is in both camera frames simultaneously, it's distance, speed and size could be estimated well with the geometry rules of stereography. If it's only in one camera frame it's close and small.

                    Cheers.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Curiosity: A New Find?

                      haha, no offence taken at all. It's just if you spend enough time reviewing the countless thousands of videos (granted I've probably only seen a few hundred), you can't help but come to the conclusion that there's just far too many sightings that can't be reasonably well explained, despite minute linguering doubts such as the one you propose. This to say nothing of literally hundreds of credible video'ed witnesses ranging from NASA itself (several highly regarded astronault death bed confessions), to high ranking government and military officials of multiple countries, and most curious (to me) are the multiple hours of video interviews from several ex-black ops/area 51/S4 types that turned whistleblowers and spilled the beans.
                      Warning: Network Engineer talking economics!

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