Odd solar power?

[aaron]

Re: Odd solar power?

I completely disagree with this point of view. We are maybe 60 years into processing instantaneous solar power and we're now able to turn 20% of the short wave radiation sent to the earth by the sun into electrical energy. Oil is several orders of magnitude less efficient. That there has been a lot of this stuff available over the last 150 years offers up a false argument. If humanity is to survive in reasonable numbers, oil will not be the answer.

You cannot make plastic out of sun rays.

[Polish_Silver]

Re: Odd solar power?

I know someone here driving a cng car for about a year. He has a compressor at home. I think he said it costed $5k and can fill the car in two minutes. If you can share it with neighbors, it is getting more reasonable.

[BadJuju]

Re: Odd solar power?

You cannot make plastic out of sun rays.

You can make it out of things other then petroleum, like cellulose. I think people need to educate themselves more on alternative energies and other alternative technologies when it comes to petroleum. I think a lot of you are way too into the peak oil stuff.

[shiny!]

Re: Odd solar power?

You cannot make plastic out of sun rays.

Thankfully there is Nanocrystalline Cellulose.

Why Woodpulp is the World's New Wonder Material

[Verrocchio]

Re: Odd solar power?

You can make it out of things other then petroleum, like cellulose. I think people need to educate themselves more on alternative energies and other alternative technologies when it comes to petroleum. I think a lot of you are way too into the peak oil stuff.

Right. The main source of modern plastics is petroleum, but there are alternative sources, such as animal horns, milk, insects, plants, and trees.

[aaron]

Re: Odd solar power?

OK, we do not need oil. I was wrong.

[Ghent12]

Re: Odd solar power?

OK, we do not need oil. I was wrong.

The world most certainly does need oil, or rather the humans in the world need oil. No other substance comes close to the utility of oil. It is literally the magic that makes everything modern possible. Everything. Every single material possession in modern times is substantially influenced by oil in some way, and you will never find more than a few degrees of separation between any modern human endeavor and oil.

There are alternatives to oil in all of its uses. That doesn't mean oil is replaceable. Humans can and will make do with less if it comes to that, but first we will do everything we can to continue to access it in relatively abundant quantities. Oil is king and probably always will be, and if we as a species ever really have significant slumps in availability and access to it then we are truly in for drastic shifts in societies.

[GRG55]

Re: Odd solar power?

You can make it out of things other then petroleum, like cellulose. I think people need to educate themselves more on alternative energies and other alternative technologies when it comes to petroleum. I think a lot of you are way too into the peak oil stuff.

I guess it's time to pull out all those '70s rayon Hawaiian shirts :-)

[lektrode]

Re: Odd solar power?

I guess it's time to pull out all those '70s rayon Hawaiian shirts :-)

hey - now yer talkin - those were some of my alltime faves.... wish i still had em, they'd prolly be worth at least as much as a lava lamp...

;)

[c1ue]

Re: Odd solar power?

Right. The main source of modern plastics is petroleum, but there are alternative sources, such as animal horns, milk, insects, plants, and trees.

So how many animal horns, gallons of milk, hives of insects, trees, whatever are needed to replace the 331 million barrels of fossil fuel feedstocks used just in the US last year? That's only 4.6% of the overall US oil consumption...

http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=34&t=6

[BadJuju]

Re: Odd solar power?

So how many animal horns, gallons of milk, hives of insects, trees, whatever are needed to replace the 331 million barrels of fossil fuel feedstocks used just in the US last year? That's only 4.6% of the overall US oil consumption...

http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=34&t=6

Which is why we should focus on meaningful changes, like fuel consumption and decreasing our usage of petroleum for products that don't need it. I long for the days in which stores return to paper bags.

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: Odd solar power?

Which is why we should focus on meaningful changes, like fuel consumption and decreasing our usage of petroleum for products that don't need it. I long for the days in which stores return to paper bags.

Then move to San Francisco.

Not only do they not have plastic bags but you can't even freely pick out a toothbrush or toothpaste without calling an assistant to open the plastic door lock that they reside behind.

I spent an extra 15 mins just trying to get a store assistant to open the lock so I could purchase a toothbrush. I understand why, the people come in off the street and steal the merchandise then sell it on the street but come on really?

[jk]

Re: Odd solar power?

I guess it's time to pull out all those '70s rayon Hawaiian shirts :-)

the rayon really holds vibrant colors, but they don't breathe.

[BadJuju]

Re: Odd solar power?

Then move to San Francisco.

Not only do they not have plastic bags but you can't even freely pick out a toothbrush or toothpaste without calling an assistant to open the plastic door lock that they reside behind.

I spent an extra 15 mins just trying to get a store assistant to open the lock so I could purchase a toothbrush. I understand why, the people come in off the street and steal the merchandise then sell it on the street but come on really?

I don't think the second part really has anything to do with conservation as it does with anti-theft.

[GRG55]

Re: Odd solar power?

I know someone here driving a cng car for about a year. He has a compressor at home. I think he said it costed $5k and can fill the car in two minutes. If you can share it with neighbors, it is getting more reasonable.

There isn't a hope in hell that anyone can fill a vehicle CNG tank in a few minutes from a household connection downstream of the gas meter.

The pressure downstream of the gas meter in a home system is very low (typically under 1 psi). The heat from compression requires multiple stages of compression (minimum 3 stages, optimally 4) with interstage cooling. If you want to do it in minutes, instead of hours, you need a hell of lot of compression horsepower and a very large amount of fin cooler area. That cannot be done for $5k. To keep the cost down most of the cheap home fill compression systems for CNG require several hours to fill the tank, and most of them have a LOT of trouble with the low initial inlet pressure and therefore usually burn out fairly quickly from the heat generated by the first stage of compression.

A separate tap and meter on the inlet line upstream of the final regulator (so it provides a higher first stage inlet pressure) would help the process, but I suspect most LDCs will be reluctant to provide that for safety reasons.