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  • Spinning IRA/401K Options

    The Risks of Tapping Your Retirement Fund for an Alternative Use

    Retirement funds are being used increasingly for anything but retirement. Instead, 401(k)'s and individual retirement accounts are becoming money pots used to invest in business start-ups, speculate in gold and buy private equity investments.

    Such maneuvers come with big tax advantages. But they may also leave their users penniless in retirement, while their ability to evade taxes can cost the government.

    My interest was piqued by a recent ad in an airline magazine. It called on people to leave their mind-numbing jobs and use their retirement funds to start a franchise business. Invest in yourself was the idea.

    I was startled at the directness. I.R.A.'s and 401(k)'s were never meant to be used to start a business. After 15 minutes on the Internet - one of the few upsides to air travel these days - I discovered armies of advisers willing to charge a fee to help you use your 401(k) or I.R.A. to start a business.

    One of leaders in this nascent industry is Guidant Financial. You can get an idea of what this is about from its Web site, which asserts that "by rolling your existing retirement funds into an iFinance plan you can invest in a small business or franchise inside your retirement plan ... without tax penalties!"

    The strategies to do so and not run afoul of I.R.S. regulations are varied, but the main one is to start a business and have it adopt a 401(k) plan. The existing 401(k) plan is rolled into the new one, which is invested in the new business. Voilą - instant financing. The downside, however, is that there is no money for retirement if the business fails.

    And there is evidence that most of these businesses do fail. The Internal Revenue Service terms one form of this scheme as a Rollovers as Business Start-Ups plan, or perhaps with some unintended irony, a ROBS plan. In 2009, the I.R.S. studied ROBS plans and found that most of these businesses had gone bankrupt, losing the person's retirement savings. In most cases the money was lost before the business even got off the ground. Nonetheless, the I.R.S. does not prohibit ROBS plans, but it has called for more scrutiny of the structure.

    This has not diminished the ardor of franchisers and other investment advisers selling such plans. They aggressively market them to would-be entrepreneurs. Figures are hard to come by, but the chief executive and co-founder of Guidant, David Nilssen, recently told The New York Times that inquiries about these types of plans were up 196 percent in 2011 from 2009.

    Yet this is not the only way use your retirement fund for something other than prudent retirement planning. A business even bigger than self-financing a start-up is the self-directed I.R.A. As of 2011, some $94 billion was invested in these plans, according to the Investment Company Institute.
    Self-directed I.R.A.'s allow for speculation in much sexier investments, like gold bullion, oil and loans. But that is only the beginning. Want to own a rental home? You can do that through your I.R.A. How about cattle or llamas? You can do that, too. There's even the case of someone who bought musical instruments using a retirement fund and rented them out for tax-free income.
    Not surprisingly, the biggest growth area in alternative retirement fund investing is commodities. Gold I.R.A.'s are particularly popular, and one of the largest advisers in this area, the Entrust Group, recently stated that the value of these holdings at the firm had grown by more than five times in 2012.

    This brings us to another oft-promoted feature of these funds, assuming the investments work out. Self-directed I.R.A.'s are great tax shelters because the money inside it, like money in a regular I.R.A. or 401(k), is untaxed until withdrawn. These plans offer tax savings that regular investors cannot get because they defer taxes for decades. And if the investments are made through a Roth I.R.A., the gains are completely tax-free.

    Mitt Romney's experience illustrates the effectiveness of this strategy. When he was at Bain, he funneled his private equity investments into a tax-sheltered retirement fund, investing an unknown amount, but likely about $450,000. That amount is now worth $20.7 million to $101.6 million. All of this gain has been tax-free, so far. Entrust, by the way, has an article on its Web site that promotes self-directed I.R.A.'s, citing Mr. Romney's use of them to shelter up to $100 million in gains.

    And if the tax on capital gains rises in coming years, and marketing by these alternative investment firms grows, expect more entrepreneurs and investors to turn to their retirement funds for this type of extreme investing.

    Some of these investors will succeed, and these lucky few will pay fewer taxes because of the use of these retirement plans, costing the government money that could total billions. Originally, the idea was that the tax-free nature of this investment was justified to encourage saving for retirement. But that is not what is going on here. Buying mass quantities of gold? This is nothing but speculation. And as is the case with most speculation, the average investor is not likely to make money.

    Mr. Romney, of course, as a top private equity executive, knew what he was doing and could afford the loss if things had gone wrong. But the average investor speculating with I.R.A. funds or concentrating them into one investment or a start-up is asking for trouble. There are no statistics on how self-directed I.R.A.'s have performed, but there is no reason to expect that investors in gold and cattle will do any better than those who have day-traded with their retirement funds.

    Then there is the fraud issue. Self-directed I.R.A.'s have been a particular target of Ponzi schemes, causing the North American Securities Administration Association to issue a special alert. In the most prominent case of recent note, the Securities and Exchange Commission stopped a number of schemes trying to persuade retirees to buy promissory notes in Turkish investments - yes, Turkish promissory notes - through self-directed I.R.A.'s.

    The fact that all of this activity is for anything but retirement is a case study in how legitimate tax policies can be distorted and rules bent to benefit the inventive. More sadly, though, is that a whole industry growing around these investments also shows how some Americans are willing to risk anything for a big jackpot in the markets. And how under the current system, if they succeed, they can do it tax-free, while the rest of us pay taxes.

    http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/10/...gewanted=print

  • #2
    Re: Spinning IRA/401K Options

    Originally posted by don View Post
    Buying mass quantities of gold? This is nothing but speculation. And as is the case with most speculation, the average investor is not likely to make money.
    I think we need to pass a law banning people from holding gold in IRAs or just banning gold outright! Speculators are robbing the public purse with their purse snatching gold holding!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Spinning IRA/401K Options

      Originally posted by globaleconomicollaps View Post
      I think we need to pass a law banning people from holding gold in IRAs or just banning gold outright! Speculators are robbing the public purse with their purse snatching gold holding!
      LOL! Our Finster often reminds us that it's not possible to avoid being invested in something, one who has 100% in cash is fully invested in that currency. Until now, Wall Street had 401Ks and IRA's all to themselves. The only options were stocks, bonds and CDs, purchased through a brokerage or a bank. The tone of this article sounds like the squealing of a stuck pig losing its monopoly.

      The article points to fools buying Turkish promissory notes with IRA money and losing it all. They neglect to mention the fools who bought Enron stock with IRA money and lost it all.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Spinning IRA/401K Options

        Originally posted by globaleconomicollaps View Post
        I think we need to pass a law banning people from holding gold in IRAs or just banning gold outright! Speculators are robbing the public purse with their purse snatching gold holding!
        And also include a provision that all retirement investing must be in stocks, bonds, reits, or generally any financial instrument. How is wall street supposed to thrive and help secure the security of pensioners with all these unethical schemers out there?!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Spinning IRA/401K Options

          Originally posted by vinoveri View Post
          And also include a provision that all retirement investing must be in stocks, bonds, reits, or generally any financial instrument. How is wall street supposed to thrive and help secure the security of pensioners with all these unethical schemers out there?!
          Annuities for Super Seniors! (lard on the fees, boyz)

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Spinning IRA/401K Options

            of course anyone who invests in gold is a speculator... but stocks only go up right? We all know that speculators are bad and buying stocks is an invesment and investors are good. i smell a taint to this article. and with zirp this really makes starting a biz with my ira not seem like such a bad idea actually. My sister bought a income property with here ira. I might do the same. waiting for crash part deux 2019??

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Spinning IRA/401K Options

              Originally posted by thriftyandboringinohio View Post
              LOL! Our Finster often reminds us that it's not possible to avoid being invested in something, one who has 100% in cash is fully invested in that currency. Until now, Wall Street had 401Ks and IRA's all to themselves. The only options were stocks, bonds and CDs, purchased through a brokerage or a bank. The tone of this article sounds like the squealing of a stuck pig losing its monopoly.

              The article points to fools buying Turkish promissory notes with IRA money and losing it all. They neglect to mention the fools who bought Enron stock with IRA money and lost it all.

              I was gonna say it sounds like FIRE doesn't want competition, but you said it more colorfully.

              Addendum: My boss still won't add gold to his retirement portfolio because it doesn't earn dividends. Sigh.
              Last edited by shiny!; October 31, 2012, 05:26 PM. Reason: addendum

              Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Spinning IRA/401K Options

                I converted a large chunk of my retirement funds to a self-directed IRA in 2007 through Guidant Financial. Structurally my IRA owns an LLC which I manage, thus I have checkbook control of the funds. Initially I was looking to do some things in real estate but when subprime imploded I backed off that idea.

                So I allocated it as below. So simple to write a check rather than directing a custodian as with other SDIRAs. And the equities portion includes a certain biometric alcohol detection startup you may be familiar with. My experience with the process has been mostly positive. Nice to have options beyond the standard FIRE offerings.

                Physical Gold 35.9%
                Offshore Gold 7.5%
                Currency 0.0%
                Deposits 37.3%
                Deposits - Foreign Currency 10.8%
                Money Market 0.0%
                Mutual Funds 3.2%
                Equities 5.3%

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Spinning IRA/401K Options

                  Originally posted by swgprop View Post
                  I converted a large chunk of my retirement funds to a self-directed IRA in 2007 through Guidant Financial. Structurally my IRA owns an LLC which I manage, thus I have checkbook control of the funds. Initially I was looking to do some things in real estate but when subprime imploded I backed off that idea.

                  So I allocated it as below. So simple to write a check rather than directing a custodian as with other SDIRAs. And the equities portion includes a certain biometric alcohol detection startup you may be familiar with. My experience with the process has been mostly positive. Nice to have options beyond the standard FIRE offerings.

                  Physical Gold 35.9%
                  Offshore Gold 7.5%
                  Currency 0.0%
                  Deposits 37.3%
                  Deposits - Foreign Currency 10.8%
                  Money Market 0.0%
                  Mutual Funds 3.2%
                  Equities 5.3%
                  Thanks for sharing. Have been looking into this myself but can differentiate between the various custodial firms. How have you found Guidant? Did you set the LLC up before or was that something Guidant handled?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Spinning IRA/401K Options

                    Originally posted by vinoveri View Post
                    Thanks for sharing. Have been looking into this myself but can differentiate between the various custodial firms. How have you found Guidant? Did you set the LLC up before or was that something Guidant handled?
                    Guidant is rather unique in that they are a facilitator not a custodian. They did all the paperwork to establish the LLC: operating arrangement, various filings, etc. They established the custodial relationship and the process included 1 or 2 hours legal consultation to address any questions. It isn't cheap - IIRC they charged 3-4K. But in the end you have checkbook control of your funds. You are still restricted by IRS guidelines as to what you can invest in; for instance you can't use the funds to buy a house and live in it but you could buy a rental. You also cannot invest in collectibles but can buy precious metals with certain restrictions.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Spinning IRA/401K Options

                      I have mine through Northern Equity Trust, and they are a true custodian, writing checks, accepting payments, and creating tax paperwork.
                      They charge me about $400 a year service fee to do this.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Spinning IRA/401K Options

                        Originally posted by thriftyandboringinohio View Post
                        I have mine through Northern Equity Trust, and they are a true custodian, writing checks, accepting payments, and creating tax paperwork.
                        They charge me about $400 a year service fee to do this.
                        Sounds like they have the "checkbook control"? When researching the different programs, the folks who offered the "checkbook control" say that this may be preferable for some b/c w/o it, the custodian has to "approve" your activities and/or can be slow to act (e.g., if you needed to write a check for an investment property that was being auctioned).

                        Have you found any drawbacks to your custodian or structure?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Spinning IRA/401K Options

                          Originally posted by shiny! View Post
                          I was gonna say it sounds like FIRE doesn't want competition, but you said it more colorfully.

                          Addendum: My boss still won't add gold to his retirement portfolio because it doesn't earn dividends. Sigh.
                          I've counseled my coworkers that if/when they are given the option to put gold in their company 401k it's time to (or close) to SELL.

                          The entire 401k concept is based on an obscure loophole - it was never intended to be ANYTHING, it's merely an unintended consequence of our overly complex tax laws.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Spinning IRA/401K Options

                            Originally posted by vinoveri View Post
                            Sounds like they have the "checkbook control"? When researching the different programs, the folks who offered the "checkbook control" say that this may be preferable for some b/c w/o it, the custodian has to "approve" your activities and/or can be slow to act (e.g., if you needed to write a check for an investment property that was being auctioned).

                            Have you found any drawbacks to your custodian or structure?
                            I've been happy for 3 years, but haven't really tested them yet.
                            Until now I've only had a single mortgage, deed, and note for a single rental property in the account, and the note only pays interest once a year.
                            In that deal I'm a passive investor.

                            Right now I'm buying a second rental property that I will manage actively, with many transactions for rehab and monthly rent checks thereafter.
                            I haven't tested them yet with that more busy activity.

                            Yes, my custodian has "checkbook control", and it does slow things down with a couple days delay for any major transaction.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Spinning IRA/401K Options

                              Originally posted by LorenS View Post
                              I've counseled my coworkers that if/when they are given the option to put gold in their company 401k it's time to (or close) to SELL.

                              The entire 401k concept is based on an obscure loophole - it was never intended to be ANYTHING, it's merely an unintended consequence of our overly complex tax laws.
                              My comment was to point out how well the MSM has brainwashed people into thinking that stocks (and sometimes bonds and CDs) are the only legitimate investments. It's just amazing to watch very smart business people, people with advanced college degrees, people who know how to do due diligence in their specialized fields, CPAs for heavens sake... not do any due diligence when it comes to the economy and their retirement investments. They don't want to think about it. They want to believe what the "experts" tell them.

                              We don't have 401k's at work, only IRA's with mutual funds through American Funds. I've tried to encourage my boss/friend to diversify his portfolio with some physical gold, but he won't because it doesn't earn dividends (he's parroting his Edward Jones investment adviser). Even though his IRA got clobbered in the last recession, he hasn't learned a thing. I'm pretty sure he won't buy gold until Cramer tells him to... at the top.

                              The Edward Jones adviser- the same guy who didn't "see it coming", the same guy who in Jan. '08 told me that any recession would be a short, V-shaped one that wouldn't spread outside the housing sector... this guy says the economy's coming back because housing starts are up, and that's all my friends want to hear. Instead of studying at places like iTulip, they spend their spare time watching American Idol and playing with their iPhones on Facebook. Sheep to the slaughter.

                              Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

                              Comment

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