Sandy Biggest Atlantic Storm Ever

[mooncliff]

Re: Sandy Biggest Atlantic Storm Ever

And I understand you have some problems with... what's it called... ram heating? piston heating? The trains have been running so long in the tunnels that the tunnels have actually been heated up by compression of air by the travel of the trains. I thought that was interesting as I never thought of that problem in such a cool climate. Tokyo is very hot in the summer and usually above freezing in the winter, but the tunnels dont seem to have this problem. Perhaps the clearance is greater. I think Japanese subways are running on British narrow gauge tracks, but Im not sure.

[sunpearl71]

Re: Sandy Biggest Atlantic Storm Ever

Heating is associated with the braking action that has been found to increase the average temperature of the ground surrounding the tunnels significantly over a period of time. Piston effect is the flow of air throughout the tunnels and stations as a result of the trains moving through the tunnels. This could potentially help with circulation of air within the underground system, but the key drawback is that it stops when the trains stop moving.

I have travelled in the Japanese underground system as well, and IIRC the train proportions were similar to the UK trains, so the gauge could also be similar.

[touchring]

Re: Sandy Biggest Atlantic Storm Ever

Well, except that what the old outdated equipment is replaced with is unlikely to be the same thing. All the JR trains in Tokyo are one by one being replaced with trains that are roomier, lighter, have regenerative braking, and use HALF the electricity.
We let infrastructure in the US become so old and decrepit that it becomes a huge crisis instead of slowly and steadily replacing things. Bridges and coal trains fall down for no reason and kill people often.
The train system in Tokyo is more than 100 years old. Many stations are having centennial celebrations. Tokyo Station has been restored to the way it was a century ago.

Grand Central Station is gorgeous now, but I didnt understand why all that money was spent on appearances while the infrastructure is the same as 35 years ago. I swear i rode on the same trains on Metro North in the '70s.

I don't know about Japan although I've been there once, but I do know about Singapore where you can hardly find a building or structure that looks older than 20 years old.

Commie culture has a disdain for old buildings and structure, anything that is old ought to be torn down. Hundreds of buildings less than 20 years old were demolished in recent years. Some built only 10 years ago. Entire neighborhoods had been demolished in the last couple of years.

Economically, old buildings do not maximize land usage and should be demolished to make way for taller buildings. New apartments sell for double the price for old ones (even a couple of years old) and you can reap good profit simply by just rebuilding. This pushes up land prices and the biggest land owner is the government and the elites.

The other reason is distributing the profit to the elites and government supporters. You can't give out money directly so instead you give out lucrative rebuilding contracts.


Here's some govt statistics on construction spending vs GDP:

New York city is expected to spend $30.7 billion on construction. NYC has a GDP of $1280.5 billion, construction spending works out to 2.4% of GDP.

http://news.yahoo.com/york-construct...--finance.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_GDP

In comparison, Singapore is expected to spend S$28 billion ($23 billion) on construction. Singapore has a GDP of $257 billion, construction spending works out to 10.9% of GDP, which is 4.5X NYC.

http://rlb.com/index.php/singapore/a...t-at-waf-2012/

[don]

A Tremendous Economic Opportunity?

The public relations propaganda campaign to convince the ignorant masses that Sandy’s impact on our economy will be minor and ultimately positive, as rebuilding boosts GDP, has begun. I’ve been hearing it on the corporate radio, seeing it on corporate TV and reading it in the corporate newspapers. There are stories in the press that this storm won’t hurt the earnings of insurers. The only way this can be true is if the insurance companies figure out a way to not pay claims. They wouldn’t do that. Would they?

It seems all the stories use unnamed economists as the background experts for their contention that this storm will not cause any big problems for the country. These are the same economists who never see a recession coming, never see a housing collapse, and are indoctrinated in Keynesian claptrap theory.

Bastiat understood the ridiculousness of Kenesianism and the foolishness of believing that a disaster leads to economic growth.

Bastiat’s original parable of the broken window from Ce qu’on voit et ce qu’on ne voit pas (1850):

Have you ever witnessed the anger of the good shopkeeper, James Goodfellow, when his careless son has happened to break a pane of glass? If you have been present at such a scene, you will most assuredly bear witness to the fact that every one of the spectators, were there even thirty of them, by common consent apparently, offered the unfortunate owner this invariable consolation—”It is an ill wind that blows nobody good. Everybody must live, and what would become of the glaziers if panes of glass were never broken?”
Now, this form of condolence contains an entire theory, which it will be well to show up in this simple case, seeing that it is precisely the same as that which, unhappily, regulates the greater part of our economical institutions.

Suppose it cost six francs to repair the damage, and you say that the accident brings six francs to the glazier’s trade—that it encourages that trade to the amount of six francs—I grant it; I have not a word to say against it; you reason justly. The glazier comes, performs his task, receives his six francs, rubs his hands, and, in his heart, blesses the careless child. All this is that which is seen.

But if, on the other hand, you come to the conclusion, as is too often the case, that it is a good thing to break windows, that it causes money to circulate, and that the encouragement of industry in general will be the result of it, you will oblige me to call out, “Stop there! Your theory is confined to that which is seen; it takes no account of that which is not seen.”

It is not seen that as our shopkeeper has spent six francs upon one thing, he cannot spend them upon another. It is not seen that if he had not had a window to replace, he would, perhaps, have replaced his old shoes, or added another book to his library. In short, he would have employed his six francs in some way, which this accident has prevented.

Economists and MSM faux journalists don’t want you to think for yourself. If you just consider some basic situations that are happening or will happen to average people throughout the Northeast, you’ll understand that this storm will have a huge NEGATIVE impact on the economy.

• Small stores, restaurants, and thousands of other businesses were shut down for at least two days and some will be closed for a week or more. These businesses employ hundreds of thousands of hourly workers. These businesses earned no revenue, therefore their profits were reduced. The hourly workers did not get paid. Therefore, they have less money to spend for clothing, tech gadgets, food, etc. Both the business and the workers will pay less taxes to the government.
• The reduced revenue at retailers due to being closed and reduced spending by customers will cause them to layoff more workers or in the case of smaller retailers, go out of business altogether.
• The damage caused by the storm will result in insurance companies providing billions in claim payouts. This will reduce their earnings, causing them to layoff employees in order to meet their quarterly earnings expectations. Some smaller insurance companies may go out of business.
• Anyone with a tree down in their yard, damage to their fence, roof damage, etc that is not covered by insurance will have to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on fixing the damage. This is money they won’t spend on Christmas presents next month.
• Many people do not have the savings to fix the damage to their houses. They will put the costs on their credit cards paying 15% interest to the criminal Wall Street cabal.
• Politicians and government drones will declare we must rebuild and help those in need. They will approve $20 billion of “Federal” disaster relief. But, we all know the $20 billion does not exist. It will be borrowed from future generations. It will just be added to our current $16.3 trillion tab. We will pay interest on this $20 billion FOREVER. The true cost of the $20 billion relief will be $30 billion after decades of accumulated interest. It’s like an ignorant American taking a $20,000 vacation, putting it on their credit card and making the minimum payment for eternity.

You may realize that the only beneficieries of this tragedy will be the issuers of debt. That’s right, the criminal Wall Street banks will earn more interest as desperate Americans have to use credit cards to survive. The destroyed automobiles will be replaced with autos financed by Wall Street. Businesses and homeowners will go further into debt making repairs.

Considering the country has been in recession since June, this disaster will be the final straw that breaks the camel’s back. The powers that be will try to keep the broken economy fallacy going as long as they can, but anyone capable of thinking realizes the country is in the shitter. The mood continues to darken. The storm clouds continue to swirl and a bad moon is rising. But don’t worry, unnamed economists say everything is just fine. Fix that window and boost the economy.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-1...perstorm-sandy

[wayiwalk]

Re: A Tremendous Economic Opportunity?

I think the toughest part will be the slow reawakening of the NJ economy from this.

I'm a reformed prepper, and was busy making sure my son got his college apps done before we likely lost power this week (Nov 1st the first deadline for many schools/early action etc), so I was less prepared for this than I normally would be.

Hence, not as much gasoline set aside. A generator is useless without it.

Tuesday followed my wife to where we thought we could get gas, she was running on fumes, once we saw it wasn't available, she stayed parked while I toured Somerset and Hunterdon counties to find gas (didn't); and was really shocked out how extensive and thorough the damage is.

Last year after the Oct 30 ice storm, we were told 3 to 4 days till power would be restored - the result was 7 days. Christie is saying 7 to 14 days.....I think 10+ days minimum.

Finding an operating gas station is a real challenge, getting to it is harder. I spent a half hour trying to reach a gas station I drive by regularly during my commute.....but again, couldn't reach it because of roads blocked by downed trees, downed power lines, etc. Having the maps available via a smart phone is helpful but only keeps you trying to find your way through the maze....and one can still be unsuccessful. Finally decided, what the hey, head to Pennsylvania, and about 20 miles from home, found a trucker's gas station open, only waited half an hour, and am set.

Why do I mention this?

1) It really points to the fragile system our economy is, and how it is so carefully balanced on availabilty of gasoline.
2) To spend 2 hours just to fill up your tank - man, what a waste of time. To effect a restoration to the local economy, we have to get way past this operating in disaster mode. It seems like resuscitation of the state is happening organically - and the key is that gas stations have electricity, and next, that they are getting refilled in their gas supplies once they sell out. If people don't have gas for their cars - they can't get to work. A coworker rode his bike today, I carpooled, as I often do.

My guess is all but the shore areas are back by thanksgiving....but this story isn't over for a while. We haven't seen a utility truck since the drove through the neighborhood on Tuesday making assessments. I can't imagine how bad a "damage map" must look.

The more rural areas are coming back faster as their housing/power lines aren't all caught up together, bringing the system down so severely.

[don]

Re: A Tremendous Economic Opportunity?

We waited 7 hours in the car for gas in Florida following Wilma. It blew right through the town we were visiting. The gas stations all had gas but only a few had generators to run the pumps. The line was miles long, with plenty of attempts to bypass everybody and pull right into the station. Four cops blocked the entrance, heading off guaranteed mayhem. As we approached the station they cut off the line 3 cars back of us. Whew!

One surprising note was the supermarket pay phone operated normally. The store had no power, the house wall phones and cell phones were inoperable. Only the pay phone worked.

[wayiwalk]

Re: A Tremendous Economic Opportunity?

My wife says that she's seen a few more gas stations open today, operating via generators. Based on the media reports, it still sounds like a week until the supplies to the gas stations will become more reliable.

[shiny!]

Re: A Tremendous Economic Opportunity?

My wife says that she's seen a few more gas stations open today, operating via generators. Based on the media reports, it still sounds like a week until the supplies to the gas stations will become more reliable.

Is the mail running? Is there anything you need that I/we could help you with?

[cjppjc]

Re: A Tremendous Economic Opportunity?

To echo what wayiwalk said, the gas lines are huge. Tempers are running short. A spokesperson for JCP&L said 13 more days is probable for some areas.

[wayiwalk]

Re: A Tremendous Economic Opportunity?

Is the mail running? Is there anything you need that I/we could help you with?

Thanks, but we're good. I don't think mail is running yet. My biggest challenge is keeping everyone at home, as un-cranky as possible. Not easy, since I am very cranky myself when chilled. School cancelled the whole week - who would have ever thought! I won't be shocked if the school isnt ready next week either.

College bound senior got his critical applications in - I couldn't be happier. My daughter gave 3 of us boys hair cuts on Tuesday, the electric razor running on the home generator was a perfect use.....we all got "buzz cut 4-5-6", if you've ever done the razor cuts with the length attachments, you'd understand....and as long as the larger system continues to move towards getting stable again, I figure we'll manage another week and worst case two without power.....I"m also realizing that teenagers go stir crazy sooner than any other humans.

But a real good lesson on prepping for a LONG disruption. Given the stories I hear about 12 NJ towns issuing "boil water" warnings, and in a really bad event, there could be challenges for O&M staff to reach their jobs at the water plants, my above ground pool is a good water source coupled with a Katana filter to provide a ready water supply, pasta for weeks is easily stored well in advance, but gasoline is a challenge. Might have to rethink the relatively inexpensive gas generator and get one that is natural gas powered....if only to avoid the bad actors out on the gas lines.

[doom&gloom]

NOAA Sandy Image Viewer

http://storms.ngs.noaa.gov/storms/sandy/

[flintlock]

Re: Sandy Biggest Atlantic Storm Ever

If I were an unemplyed carpenter I would pack my camping gear and head on down there as business could be good for a few months or so...

I was thinking the same thing. Electricians, plumbers, you name it. Lot of work to do.

[doom&gloom]

Re: A Tremendous Economic Opportunity?

To echo what wayiwalk said, the gas lines are huge. Tempers are running short. A spokesperson for JCP&L said 13 more days is probable for some areas.

Where's Brownie when you need him?

Who will be the skapegoat this time for not making miracles happen?

[doom&gloom]

Re: A Tremendous Economic Opportunity?

I think the toughest part will be the slow reawakening of the NJ economy from this.

I'm a reformed prepper, and was busy making sure my son got his college apps done before we likely lost power this week (Nov 1st the first deadline for many schools/early action etc), so I was less prepared for this than I normally would be.

Hence, not as much gasoline set aside. A generator is useless without it.

Tuesday followed my wife to where we thought we could get gas, she was running on fumes, once we saw it wasn't available, she stayed parked while I toured Somerset and Hunterdon counties to find gas (didn't); and was really shocked out how extensive and thorough the damage is.

Last year after the Oct 30 ice storm, we were told 3 to 4 days till power would be restored - the result was 7 days. Christie is saying 7 to 14 days.....I think 10+ days minimum.

Finding an operating gas station is a real challenge, getting to it is harder. I spent a half hour trying to reach a gas station I drive by regularly during my commute.....but again, couldn't reach it because of roads blocked by downed trees, downed power lines, etc. Having the maps available via a smart phone is helpful but only keeps you trying to find your way through the maze....and one can still be unsuccessful. Finally decided, what the hey, head to Pennsylvania, and about 20 miles from home, found a trucker's gas station open, only waited half an hour, and am set.

Why do I mention this?

1) It really points to the fragile system our economy is, and how it is so carefully balanced on availabilty of gasoline.
2) To spend 2 hours just to fill up your tank - man, what a waste of time. To effect a restoration to the local economy, we have to get way past this operating in disaster mode. It seems like resuscitation of the state is happening organically - and the key is that gas stations have electricity, and next, that they are getting refilled in their gas supplies once they sell out. If people don't have gas for their cars - they can't get to work. A coworker rode his bike today, I carpooled, as I often do.

My guess is all but the shore areas are back by thanksgiving....but this story isn't over for a while. We haven't seen a utility truck since the drove through the neighborhood on Tuesday making assessments. I can't imagine how bad a "damage map" must look.

The more rural areas are coming back faster as their housing/power lines aren't all caught up together, bringing the system down so severely.

What's sonny-boy gonna study? I have one off next year as well and he is going for Mining Engineering. 100% job placement rate nowadays.

We had a power outage out my way that ran about a week. My wife used to make fun of me for the generator I keep stored, and the gas I make sure is always in the shed (about 50 gals). But when the lights go out, and it is cold, running the NatGas furnace until the house hits about 80+ degrees, and a few lights for a few hours off an on sure makes a difference. At about a half-gallon of gas/hr, I had 100 hours run time.

One year I even saved a Xmas party by bringing it around to someones house who didn't have one and man was I the hit of the party as a result. Just flipped the main and backwired the house. Told them not to thank me too much, as when the heat went off and the house cooled down they would be cursing that generator leaving!

[doom&gloom]

Re: Sandy Biggest Atlantic Storm Ever

Hell a panel truck with a bunch of generators, heaters, and 5 gallon jerry cans would make you a small fortune in a hurry!