Tungsten Coin Flip

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: Tungsten Coin Flip

I wonder if we have a metallurgist in the iTulip community who can comment about how to assay gold.

[globaleconomicollaps]

Re: Tungsten Coin Flip

There are two aspects; the melting temperature; Gold is 1064 degrees C Tungsten is 3422 degrees C. So the easy way to absolutely identify your gold is to melt it down.

The other is the malleability; Gold is soft and ductile, you often see people chew the edge of a Gold coin to verify it. Tungsten on the other hand is harder than Steel. So the most obvious method of identification would be to apply a vibration to the object.

So, here is the inventor telling someone that wants to play with an idea; try Ultra sound. The two MUST have different sound signatures.

What I do see will very quickly arrive is that ALL Gold will be sold as PURE Gold and that will include those Gold coins that presently are made of an alloy to make them less prone to damage from use.


Who uses Gold coins now, other than for value?

So in which case for the time being EVERY item claiming to be solid Gold has to be called into question and if you hold Gold, then perhaps you should seriously worry about its provenance.

http://www.goldmoney.com/video/gold-...ort-video.html

this is what goldmoney does. I want to buy one of those machines, but I suspect they are super expensive.

[LorenS]

Re: Tungsten Coin Flip

With ultrasound you'd still need to rule out a coating thin enough to avoid ultrasonic detection, so you'd need to supplement ultrasound with a surface hardness test.

[globaleconomicollaps]

Re: Tungsten Coin Flip

With ultrasound you'd still need to rule out a coating thin enough to avoid ultrasonic detection, so you'd need to supplement ultrasound with a surface hardness test.

I'm mostly concerned with an alloy with the same density as gold used as filler. I don't know if ultrasound would detect it.

[charliebrown]

Re: Tungsten Coin Flip

Just curious what about a metal detector?

One with a discriminator circuit uses the differences in the return phase of the induced current. Different metals have a different phase response. I'm not sure how different the phase angle is between gold and tungsten.

I coin shoot with a discriminator. The highest phase difference is silver. gold and nickel are somewhere in the middle, iron at the bottom. If someone would like to send me a tungsten disk I can test if for you

[Chris Coles]

Re: Tungsten Coin Flip

I'm mostly concerned with an alloy with the same density as gold used as filler. I don't know if ultrasound would detect it.

And there you have it a classic example of why innovation works, you will have to try it to find out and the best outcome is always that at first you do not find the answer you seek and so you have to try every which way and a few more besides until you have enough information to be able to answer the question.

That always requires investment......

[globaleconomicollaps]

Re: Tungsten Coin Flip

And there you have it a classic example of why innovation works, you will have to try it to find out and the best outcome is always that at first you do not find the answer you seek and so you have to try every which way and a few more besides until you have enough information to be able to answer the question.

That always requires investment......

I see a business model here. An Itulip startup. We make undetectable fake gold bars and sell suitable detectors ( after a delay of course. ) ;-)

Any takers?

[Chris Coles]

Re: Tungsten Coin Flip

I see a business model here. An Itulip startup. We make undetectable fake gold bars and sell suitable detectors ( after a delay of course. ) ;-)

Any takers?

Aha! GEC,

now we can see why you might feel safer living in a Casbah !!!

[cobben]

Re: Tungsten Coin Flip

Counterfeits are not a new problem. There is a very good reason why the previous international standard trade coin, the ducat, is wafer thin weighing only 3.491g.

For those new to the counterfeit world, a few thoughts.

Recall that the Greek central bank makes a explicit retail market not only for real British sovereigns, but also for Italian and Lebanese made fake British Sovereigns, with daily buy and sell quotes for various qualities.

What does that tell you about the prevalence of counterfeit sovereigns, in Greece at least?



Not only gold and silver coins are being counterfeited.
The Royal Mint has a problem


£1 Counterfeit Coins


The Royal Mint takes counterfeiting and fraud extremely seriously. To help identify genuine £1 coins we have prepared an easy-to-use guide and poster for you to download.

Regular surveys have been undertaken by the Royal Mint since 2002 to establish the incidence of £1 counterfeit coins. These have indicated a gradual increase in the volume of counterfeit £1 coins in circulation. The most recent survey indicated a counterfeit rate of around 3.09%.


Robert Matthews Coin Authentication

Welcome to my site. I am Robert Matthews C.Chem., MRSC, a former Queen's Assay Master at the Royal Mint. I have over thirty years experience of examining coins and acting as an expert witness on counterfeit coins. My recent publications include papers on the manufacture of the proof sovereign, and a number on counterfeiting.

The aim of this website is to assist in the battle against the counterfeiting of coins. To achieve this aim the site provides information on genuine British milled coins, on the science of examining coins and on counterfeit coins of all types. On the site is my blog covering counterfeit coins, coins in general and coin books. The blog can be found at: blog. Every calendar month the blogs are archived. The archived blogs can be found on the Coin Information page, whose link is on the left. Access to the other information on the site is also via the Coin Information page. Any information on counterfeit coins and corrections to any errors on the site are welcome.

I also offer a coin authentication service for British milled coins. To undertake this I have the modern equipment required for coin examination. This includes an analytical balance with a density kit, a stereomicroscope, a Sigmatest conductivity meter, digital callipers, digital photographic equipment, modern IT equipment and crucially a well-stocked library of suitable reference material. I can easily access outside resources such as x-ray surface analysis, electron microscopy and spectroscopy and suitable literature and reference materials.

Contact me by e-mail to obtain estimated prices and details on how to submit coins for examination. The site contains examples of scientific reports I have produced.

[don]

Re: Tungsten Coin Flip

For those new to the counterfeit world, a few thoughts.

Recall that the Greek central bank makes a explicit retail market not only for real British sovereigns, but also for Italian and Lebanese made fake British Sovereigns, with daily buy and sell quotes for various qualities.

Are those of "different fitness or underweight" ?

[gwynedd1]

Re: Tungsten Coin Flip

So China has its own treasuries now?

[Chris Coles]

Re: Tungsten Coin Flip

Unless I am very much mistaken, from what I have seen here, it would seem that everyone must assume there are an unknown number of fake Gold coins in circulation. If indeed, that is so, then the only way out of this dilemma will be for the issuing authorities of the genuine coins to act to assuage holders concerns by taking the initiative by creating a new service that will take in any Gold Coin, (for their own assurance of the content to melt it down into its constituent parts), and reissue a verified coin to the same denomination without any argument.

That the "Promise to Pay" must be secured. If you hold a 1oz pure Gold coin; that will be the only way to both verify the Gold content and at the same time, it will be the only way for the national authorities to know what exactly is occurring.

Yes, I can immediately see the drawbacks for the issuing authorities; they will certainly be targeted by criminal gangs wishing to subvert the system; except ...... that that will, in turn, open the criminal element to full exposure.

On the other hand, it also makes for the opening up of a completely new marketplace; Formal, authoritative; verification, that will, in turn again, open up the potential for the same type of bank as the Amsterdam Bank of previous history. Place your Gold into the Bank, they issue a note, they verify the Gold and you get its value to use in transactions.

Food for thought?

[don]

Re: Tungsten Coin Flip

then there's the manipulation of real gold . . .

Technical analyst and book author Dimitri Speck interviewed by Lars Schall

[DSpencer]

Re: Tungsten Coin Flip

Unless I am very much mistaken, from what I have seen here, it would seem that everyone must assume there are an unknown number of fake Gold coins in circulation. If indeed, that is so, then the only way out of this dilemma will be for the issuing authorities of the genuine coins to act to assuage holders concerns by taking the initiative by creating a new service that will take in any Gold Coin, (for their own assurance of the content to melt it down into its constituent parts), and reissue a verified coin to the same denomination without any argument.

That the "Promise to Pay" must be secured. If you hold a 1oz pure Gold coin; that will be the only way to both verify the Gold content and at the same time, it will be the only way for the national authorities to know what exactly is occurring.

Yes, I can immediately see the drawbacks for the issuing authorities; they will certainly be targeted by criminal gangs wishing to subvert the system; except ...... that that will, in turn, open the criminal element to full exposure.

On the other hand, it also makes for the opening up of a completely new marketplace; Formal, authoritative; verification, that will, in turn again, open up the potential for the same type of bank as the Amsterdam Bank of previous history. Place your Gold into the Bank, they issue a note, they verify the Gold and you get its value to use in transactions.

Food for thought?

And then repeat the process every X months as new counterfeits enter circulation? This is a very silly idea.

[Chris Coles]

Re: Tungsten Coin Flip

And then repeat the process every X months as new counterfeits enter circulation? This is a very silly idea.

You missed the point; I was assuming that someone that holds onto their coins, has purchased them from anyone other than the issuing mint, and now has no idea if they are genuine should be able to receive confirmation of their authenticity from the issuing authority. Every one of those individuals has to rely upon the genuineness of their coins. If there is a problem that is as widespread as it seems to be today, then the value of the currency is at risk. You can already hand in for exchange and verification any bank note; so why not the same for any issued Gold coin?