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  • Tungsten Coin Flip

    Get Your Fake Tungsten-Filled Gold Coins Here



    In the aftermath of the recent stories about Tungsten-filled 10 ounce gold bars discovered in midtown Manhattan, there have been two broad sentiments expressed by the precious metals community: i) that this is as many have expected, and that of the physical inventory in circulation, much is fake (particularly that held in official hands, either via ETFs or in sovereign repositories which for various reasons still can not be publicly assayed) and ii) is the comfort that while it is relatively easy and cost-effective to use tungsten to falsify larger gold bars and bricks, those who own primarily gold coins are safe as for some reason, it is less economic, feasible or widespread to counterfeit smaller precious metal denominations. Sadly, while i) may be true, ii) is patently false. The proof comes courtesy of a firm called ChinaTungsten Online which proudly markets its broad "tungsten-alloy services" including, you guessed it, the gold plating of various tungsten formulations among them "gold" bricks, bars and, yes, coins. Oh did we mention a Chinese company openly advertizes its tungsten gold-plating and precious metals replication services, something which the tabloid media's CTRL-C/V majors openly mock as improbable conspiracy theory. Well, as they say, it is only conspiracy theory until it becomes conspiracy fact.

    From the website's Tungsten Heavy Alloy Scan Gold Coin section:


    Tungsten is the only lower value metal that has a specific density close enough to gold to fabricate passable counterfeit pieces of the same size and weight as genuine Pictures of tungsten fake gold coins and ingots. Over the years, there have been a few isolated reports of smaller tungsten fake gold coin found to have been drilled to remove some of the gold which was replaced with tungsten. However, tungsten fake gold coin is far more profitable to fabricate larger original bars of tungsten that are then scanning gold.

    Because the existence of counterfeit tungsten fake gold coin could have such a huge impact on the financial markets, there is a huge potential for deception and misinformation to be passed around. Be very careful about automatically believing any story you may hear. For your own protection, tungsten fake gold coin would be better to take physical possession of the smaller sizes of tungsten fake gold coins and now, and know that what you own genuine solid tungsten fake gold coin. [ZH: reread that sentence: "genuine solid tungsten fake gold coin"]

    Notice: Chinatungsten Online (Xiamen) Manu.& Sales Corp. is a very professional and serious company, specializing in manufacturing and selling tungsten fake gold coin and other tungsten related products for more than two decades. We are a professional tungsten fake gold coin manufacturer. Our tungsten gold fake coin is only for souvenir and decoration purpose. Here we declare: Please do not use our tungsten fake gold coin and other fake gold coin products for any illegal purpose. We can provide all kinds of tungsten fake gold coin as your requirements.Our tungsten fake gold coin products are qualified.

    Pictures of Tungsten Fake Gold Coins:

    Therefore, if you are interest in tungsten fake gold coin, please feel free to contact sales@chinatungsten.com, or telephone 86 592 512 9696.

    Well at least the company that markets itself as proving "all kinds of tungsten fake gold coin" has extensive disclaimers. The point is that anyone wishing to, can procure tungsten-plated gold coins with one simple telephone call.

    Of course, for those for whom gold coins are not enough, the Chinese firm is happy to provide every other imaginable formulation. Such as Tungsten fake gold bars:


    Detecting a high-quality tungsten fake gold bar would be extremely difficult. It would likely require significant and material alterations to the bar being tested and this would negatively affect the marketability if its hallmark veracity were vindicated. Some applications require the tungsten to be fake gold. The main reasons for tungsten fake gold bar are to protect the wire from corrosion or to solder it to other metals.

    Besides, tungsten alloy products could also made as tungsten fake gold bar which posses a better electric conductivity, and contribute greatly to the world industry development. Also tungsten fake gold saves the energy and poses no pollution threat to the environment and thus to achieve a sustainable development.

    Notice: Chinatungsten Online (Xiamen) Manu.&Sales Corp. is a very professional and serious company, specializing in manufacturing and selling tungsten fake gold and other tungsten related products for more than two decades. Our tungsten fake gold product is only for souvenir and decoration purpose. Here we declare: Please do not use our gold-plated tungsten alloy products for any illegal purpose.

    Pictures of Tungsten Fake Gold Products

    There are many more options, for those who are so inclined, to reinforce their inventory of gold-plated tungsten products on the company's website. And naturally, in addition to the bolded applications of tungsten gold bars, one can conceive of some more. Especially in verticals in which the actual end product does not exist, and all that does exist is a receipt claiming gold is at the end of a rehypotehcation chain. One wonder how many invoices CIF Liberty 33 or various other gold ETF secret "warehouses" one could find upon rummaging through the garbage behind the firm's headquarters in Xiamen.

    With all that said, perhaps the best use of the abovementioned services would be for a contingency case in which the government of country X, Y and/or Z were to decide to replicate a certain 1930's executive order in a global coordinated attempt to devalue the fiat system not on a relative basis, something which fiat printers are more than capable of, but on an absolute basis by confiscating all the gold in circulation. It just might make such a confiscation more complicated if all the usual suspects were to hand over to said governments not gold but gold-plated Tungsten, which in turn would make the endgame, i.e. the terminal currency devaluation of fiat, that much more problematic.

    It would be truly ironic if in the end the same Tungsten that is now the bane of precious metals dealers everywhere would be the reason why central bank X, Y and/or Z was unable to destroy its currency sufficient fast.

    Note: Zero Hedge does not advise, encourage nor endorse its readers to hypothetically exchange their gold inventory for a comparable but worthless yet prominently positioned inventory of "rehypothecated" pseudo-equivalent products - note that only bankers have been known to rehypothecate valuable assets into worthless liabilities - in advance of an even more hypothetical physical gold confiscation order endorsed by the authorities.

    h/t SilverDoctors

  • #2
    Re: Tungsten Coin Flip

    Don
    My understanding is that you need to invest a large amount in tooling to do this. They claim they can produce coins..........hmmm........also Tunsen is easy to spot, eletrical resistance vaules are differant...........eg a meter will tell you its fake.

    Mike

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Tungsten Coin Flip

      Never underestimate the sheeple, Mike.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Tungsten Coin Flip

        Originally posted by Mega View Post
        Don
        My understanding is that you need to invest a large amount in tooling to do this. They claim they can produce coins..........hmmm........also Tunsen is easy to spot, eletrical resistance vaules are differant...........eg a meter will tell you its fake.

        Mike
        True although I've never seen an electrical resistance meter being used in a coin shop. You don't have to fool everyone or the highest standard, only the lowest.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Tungsten Coin Flip

          Originally posted by Mega View Post
          Don
          My understanding is that you need to invest a large amount in tooling to do this. They claim they can produce coins..........hmmm........also Tunsen is easy to spot, eletrical resistance vaules are differant...........eg a meter will tell you its fake.

          Mike
          I have posted on these forums that it would be uneconomical to produce 1 oz coins that are tungsten-filled.

          I was only considering a small criminal job-shop modifying existing gold coins. I had not considered the possibility of A) large industrial plants making counterfeit gold-clad tungsten coins from scratch in volume, and B) the treasury agents of the first world allowing rampant counterfeiting of gold eagles, maple leafs, kangaroos, and Krugerrands.

          If China has really become that lawless, and the national treasury agents around the world have really become that inept or disinterested, we have ourselves a mess. I do occasionally test my ammunition; I'm confident it is genuine.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Tungsten Coin Flip

            http://www.starstruckllc.com/gold_testers.php

            Mike

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Tungsten Coin Flip

              So these meter thingies can tell if something is gold-plated tungsten or something?

              Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Tungsten Coin Flip

                Originally posted by thriftyandboringinohio View Post
                I have posted on these forums that it would be uneconomical to produce 1 oz coins that are tungsten-filled.
                .

                Counterfeits are not a new problem. There is a very good reason why the previous international standard trade coin, the ducat, is wafer thin weighing only 3.491g.

                I have a counterfeit US$20 double eagle, a amateur provincial Swedish piece made about 40 years ago. I bought it at auction a few years ago for the scrap value (it is about 16K), together with copies of the court proceedings from back then when the counterfeiters were convicted. It is engraved by the Gothenburg Court as being a fake.

                Now neither the size nor the weight are correct, and the quality of work is amateurish and a dead giveaway to anyone with any experience, but they did manage to sell a rather large number of these before being caught.

                I believe Armstrong has said that all you need to verify a one oz. coin is to weigh and measure it, but as the Chinese are the master copiers of the world, I wonder if that is dependable advice these days?
                Attached Files
                Last edited by cobben; September 26, 2012, 01:27 AM.
                Justice is the cornerstone of the world

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Tungsten Coin Flip

                  Really a very interesting find.
                  It's Economics vs Thermodynamics. Thermodynamics wins.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Tungsten Coin Flip

                    Originally posted by cobben View Post
                    ..I believe Armstrong has said that all you need to verify a one oz. coin is to weigh and measure it, but as the Chinese are the master copiers of the world, I wonder if that is dependable advice these days?...
                    Thanks for that fascinating first-hand account of the counterfeit you own.

                    Weigh-and measure is the method to determine density, which is mass per volume. The SI units are grams per cubic centimeter ( g/cc)

                    Tungsten is 19.28 g/cc. Pure 24 K gold is 19.3 g/cc
                    Their density is awfully close. Tungsten is a tiny bit less dense, only 99.7% of gold.
                    I doubt most people could reliably measure density within 1/2 of 1 percent. It takes a lab with calibrated equipment to do that.

                    But of course, most gold coins are not pure gold, they are an alloy. US gold eagles are 91.667% gold, 3% silver, and 5.33% copper.
                    Pure gold is too soft to circulate as a coin, they use an alloy to make it hard so it can withstand wear and tear.
                    The coin actually weighs a bit over an ounce so it contains a true full ounce of pure gold. A 1-oz gold eagle weighs 1.0909 oz.

                    I worked out the arithmetic for a gold eagle and find a density of 17.760 g/cc for the alloy in the coin (1/Dalloy = Mass Fraction Metal 1/Dmetal 1 + Mass Fraction Metal 2/Dmetal 2......)

                    An industrial scale counterfeiter would have no trouble reproducing the exact density of a gold coin substituting tungsten for the gold and throwing in a couple other metals to adjust the density.
                    A garage shop would never pull it off.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Tungsten Coin Flip

                      There are two aspects; the melting temperature; Gold is 1064 degrees C Tungsten is 3422 degrees C. So the easy way to absolutely identify your gold is to melt it down.

                      The other is the malleability; Gold is soft and ductile, you often see people chew the edge of a Gold coin to verify it. Tungsten on the other hand is harder than Steel. So the most obvious method of identification would be to apply a vibration to the object.

                      So, here is the inventor telling someone that wants to play with an idea; try Ultra sound. The two MUST have different sound signatures.

                      What I do see will very quickly arrive is that ALL Gold will be sold as PURE Gold and that will include those Gold coins that presently are made of an alloy to make them less prone to damage from use.


                      Who uses Gold coins now, other than for value?

                      So in which case for the time being EVERY item claiming to be solid Gold has to be called into question and if you hold Gold, then perhaps you should seriously worry about its provenance.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Tungsten Coin Flip

                        Originally posted by Chris Coles View Post
                        So, here is the inventor telling someone that wants to play with an idea; try Ultra sound. The two MUST have different sound signatures.
                        Wouldn't it be nice if you can tell gold-plated tungsten coins from real ones by ringing them on a countertop.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Tungsten Coin Flip

                          Originally posted by mattley View Post
                          Wouldn't it be nice if you can tell gold-plated tungsten coins from real ones by ringing them on a countertop.
                          It ought to be perfectly possible to create a device that you can carry in your pocket. That way you are never going to need to rely on the sellers equipment; that might be bodged to deceive.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Tungsten Coin Flip

                            Originally posted by Chris Coles View Post
                            It ought to be perfectly possible to create a device that you can carry in your pocket. That way you are never going to need to rely on the sellers equipment; that might be bodged to deceive.
                            Are you disputing the idea that the electrical resistance method is real? Are you saying the links Mega posted with units for sale are fake?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Tungsten Coin Flip

                              Originally posted by DSpencer View Post
                              Are you disputing the idea that the electrical resistance method is real? Are you saying the links Mega posted with units for sale are fake?
                              Not disputing anything; never my intention. All I was doing is commenting on what I feel would be a possible reliable way to verify the integrity of a Gold coin or a bar.

                              Of one thing I feel certain, if the resistance method was so good, then there would not be any reason for any debate about the provenance of Gold. So my thinking was simply as a way of opening the discussion to another possible way of doing it.

                              Comment

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