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  • Quote of the Day. Robert Prechter

    http://www.financialsense.com/Expert...2007/1024.html 10/24/07

    Prechter's in blue. The first quote is the one of the day or perhaps of the year.

    Originally posted by Prechter
    How accurately can crashes be predicted?
    If I knew, I wouldn’t have called half a dozen crashes that didn’t happen!
    Most people would say the response of the Fed is crucial.
    When it comes to interest rates, the Fed is irrelevant. All it does is adjust its rates to those set by the market. If you plot the yield on T-bills against the discount rate, you will see that the former leads the latter. That’s why the ½-point drop in the discount rate last month was easy to predict. The T-bill yield had already dropped a full point, and the Fed follows the market. Despite all the rhetoric about it, the Fed has not kept rates artificially low, just as it did not make them soar in the 1970s. The market sets the rates, and the Fed follows. Greenspan said exactly that on TV last month, and the charts confirm it.
    So the central banks won’t stop the decline?
    All they do is make things worse. They aren’t so much printing cash as offering credit. IOUs are not money; they’re IOUs. When the reversal occurs, few will want to borrow. If the central banks make conscious decisions to destroy their currencies, that will be a different matter. But nothing, not even hyperinflation, can save the purchasing power of stock shares. That bull market ended in 1999, and today, the Dow buys less than half of the commodities and real money (gold) that it did then, despite the nominal new high. This is a bear market almost no one sees.


    Nice brief commentary in Q & A format.
    Jim 69 y/o

    "...Texans...the lowest form of white man there is." Robert Duvall, as Al Sieber, in "Geronimo." (see "Location" for examples.)

    Dedicated to the idea that all people deserve a chance for a healthy productive life. B&M Gates Fdn.

    Good judgement comes from experience; experience comes from bad judgement. Unknown.

  • #2
    Re: Quote of the Day. Robert Prechter

    Prechter Opines :

    << the Dow buys less than half of the commodities and real money (gold) that it did then, despite the nominal new high. This is a bear market almost no one sees. >>

    This sounds more like a very succinct description of inflation, no?

    This guy is going to turn himself into a pretzel with all the convoluted explanations of the developing reality in the next few years.

    The Dow in nominal terms may now proceed to squirt up like a slightly more stately version of the Zimbawe stock exchange, at which point on the strength of the above arguments Prechter may "transubstantiate" into an eloquent pretzel with a PHD.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Quote of the Day. Robert Prechter

      what RP really needs to be asked:

      what specific set of things have to happen (that you couldn't weasel out of with some hand-waving or "it's an artform") for you to realize you've wasted 30 years on a chimera (Elliot Wave) - seeing patterns that simply are NOT THERE?


      Originally posted by Jim Nickerson View Post
      http://www.financialsense.com/Expert...2007/1024.html 10/24/07

      Prechter's in blue. The first quote is the one of the day or perhaps of the year.







      Nice brief commentary in Q & A format.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Quote of the Day. Robert Prechter

        Originally posted by Lukester View Post
        Prechter Opines :


        This guy is going to turn himself into a pretzel with all the convoluted explanations of the developing reality in the next few years.
        Sorry boys, but this quote by Lukester is the quote of the day. This is a classic. Prechter has tried to tie everything to everything else and make every item explain the move in the others for so long, that he might as well be making stuff up as he goes, as that method would probably be more reliable as a forecast than any of the stuff he actually calls forecasts.

        I will agree with him though that the Fed follows the market, or at the very least is coincident with it.
        It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Quote of the Day. Robert Prechter

          Originally posted by Uncle Jack View Post
          Sorry boys, but this quote by Lukester is the quote of the day. This is a classic. Prechter has tried to tie everything to everything else and make every item explain the move in the others for so long, that he might as well be making stuff up as he goes, as that method would probably be more reliable as a forecast than any of the stuff he actually calls forecasts.

          I will agree with him though that the Fed follows the market, or at the very least is coincident with it.

          There is no possible mechanism that US rates could naturally drop in stair-step fashion like the 13 rate cuts, then stair step back up in the raising cycle.

          I'm thinking it only looks to Prechter like the FED follows because loans made a few days before a rate change get the benefit of the doubt - IE, if the rate falls, many loans within the previous 5 days take the new rate.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Quote of the Day. Robert Prechter

            Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
            There is no possible mechanism that US rates could naturally drop in stair-step fashion like the 13 rate cuts, then stair step back up in the raising cycle.

            I'm thinking it only looks to Prechter like the FED follows because loans made a few days before a rate change get the benefit of the doubt - IE, if the rate falls, many loans within the previous 5 days take the new rate.
            Right! The Fed follows the market but who "fixes" the market for them to follow? When inflation was still running 6% in 2002 did the market really think interest rates should be 1% because we really really really needed a housing bubble??? No, I think it was the Yen and Sw Franc carry trade that said interest rates should be 1%... leveraged 50:1 by Goldman's proxy.. The Hedge Funds.

            How do you get to be in Mensa and be wrong for 25 years on markets? The monthly average price of gold is above the all time high in 1980 and yet Prechter still counts it as a bear market rally? This blurb on Sinclair today is more accurate of Prechter.

            Mart,
            Elliott Wave Theory is amazingly accurate… when it is applied and interpreted properly. I use it all the time. Here's the hitch. Everyone interprets the wave patterns differently in "real time." After the fact, it's easy to determine what the wave structure was. Robert Prechter, an EW "guru," STILL insists gold is in a long-term bear market. Every time it makes a new high, he changes his labeling to validate his bearish belief. It's gotten to the point of being completely ridiculous. However, he refuses to admit he is wrong… the undoing of all investment analysts. Mr. Sinclair has reinforced the following in me time and again. You must have a FUNDAMENTAL understanding of a market's direction. Then you apply technical analysis to determine TIMING. If you allow the technicals to drive your CORE BELIEF, you are doomed to failure.
            Frank

            Frank,
            Bingo. Thank you for that response. They are letting the tail wag the dog. How in God’s green earth could you ever say gold is in a long term bear market? They have a wonderful tool but have misapplied the theoreticals. This has even happened to Mr. Russell’s application of Dow Theory.

            Mart

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Quote of the Day. Robert Prechter

              Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
              what RP really needs to be asked:

              what specific set of things have to happen (that you couldn't weasel out of with some hand-waving or "it's an artform") for you to realize you've wasted 30 years on a chimera (Elliot Wave) - seeing patterns that simply are NOT THERE?
              The Elliot Wave folks have aggressively tried to sell iTulip on carrying their very well marketed products and services since day one. Most contrarian sites carry these products because they are lucrative. We don't carry them because we think the idea of looking at charts to determine future price directions is flawed.

              Charts can show you pricing relationships over time, such as between inflation and interest rates, and can help you understand events in the past and help you model and organize your thinking about the future. The Ka-Poom Theory chart, for example, is a What If chart not a The Future is Going to Happen Exactly Like This chart. Charts cannot tell you the future. There are no repeatable patterns although there are repeatable processes which when depicted in charts appear as patterns.

              Disinflation/Reflation, for example.

              "All models are wrong but some are useful."

              But "head and shoulders" pattern Y means X price move is going to happen in the next two days, for example? Statistically meaningless–unless you happen to be in a market where the majority trades the same belief in "head and shoulders" patterns.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Quote of the Day. Robert Prechter

                Originally posted by Charles Mackay View Post
                How do you get to be in Mensa and be wrong for 25 years on markets? The monthly average price of gold is above the all time high in 1980 and yet Prechter still counts it as a bear market rallY?
                inflation adjusted, gold still hasn't done much. this chart isn't up to date, but it conveys the idea. if we're going to inflation adjust the dow, shouldn't we adjust gold, and to the green- cpi+lies - line?

                [this chart looks like it's from bart, but although i'm convinced he generated it, i found it elsewhere and couldn't find it on his own web site, where i went to find a more up to date version.]


                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Quote of the Day. Robert Prechter

                  Do you call the first few years of the stock market bull after 1982 a bear market rally because it hadn't bettered it's 1966 top in inflation adjusted terms yet? No, it had just started a new bull market.

                  That's what we have in gold to date.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Quote of the Day. Robert Prechter

                    Originally posted by Prechter
                    Most people would say the response of the Fed is crucial.

                    When it comes to interest rates, the Fed is irrelevant. All it does is adjust its rates to those set by the market. If you plot the yield on T-bills against the discount rate, you will see that the former leads the latter. That’s why the ½-point drop in the discount rate last month was easy to predict. The T-bill yield had already dropped a full point, and the Fed follows the market. Despite all the rhetoric about it, the Fed has not kept rates artificially low, just as it did not make them soar in the 1970s. The market sets the rates, and the Fed follows. Greenspan said exactly that on TV last month, and the charts confirm it.


                    I couldn't disagree more... as is probably not exactly a shock. Not only has the Fed admitted publicly on numerous occasions that they do operate in the market to direct rates, but the actual evidence and facts show it to be true.

                    I've posted this chart numerous times before, and it clearly shows that the Fed's Securities Lending Open Market Operation *does* lead rates the great majority of the time. This one is on the 10 year T-Note, but similar results show for T-Bills.







                    Probably I'll be considered arrogant and/or in "tinfoil hat" mode... and I know it flies completely in the face of "conventional wisdom" and that most won't even make an effort to look at the facts... but it is what it is and shows what it shows.
                    Varying time lags do apply too - the operations do not work immediately.

                    My primary point here is that the assumption that a Central Bank of a country can't affect and determine general movement in interest rates leaves a lot to be desired considering the actual facts... to put it as mildly as I can.
                    http://www.NowAndTheFuture.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Quote of the Day. Robert Prechter

                      Originally posted by jk View Post
                      inflation adjusted, gold still hasn't done much. this chart isn't up to date, but it conveys the idea. if we're going to inflation adjust the dow, shouldn't we adjust gold, and to the green- cpi+lies - line?

                      [this chart looks like it's from bart, but although i'm convinced he generated it, i found it elsewhere and couldn't find it on his own web site, where i went to find a more up to date version.]

                      (old chart)

                      Yes indeed JK, it's mine. A month or so ago, I rebased all my long term inflation charts to the year 2000 and removed the additional right hand scale (it was confusing to too many folk).

                      Here's the new chart, from my http://www.nowandfutures.com/inflation_long_term.html page.





                      The one starting in 1900 is still there too and on the same page. Here's the link:
                      http://www.nowandfutures.com/images/...00-current.png
                      Last edited by bart; October 26, 2007, 02:11 PM.
                      http://www.NowAndTheFuture.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Quote of the Day. Robert Prechter

                        Originally posted by bart View Post
                        Probably I'll be considered arrogant and/or in "tinfoil hat" mode... and I know it flies completely in the face of "conventional wisdom" and that most won't even make an effort to look at the facts... but it is what it is and shows what it shows.

                        My primary point here is that the assumption that a Central Bank of a country can't affect and determine general movement in interest rates leaves a lot to be desired considering the actual facts... to put it as mildly as I can.

                        Tin Foil Hats United!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Quote of the Day. Robert Prechter

                          Originally posted by Charles Mackay View Post
                          Tin Foil Hats United!

                          Well then in *that* case... my handy dandy tinfoil hat enabled emoticon:
                          :eek: ;)
                          http://www.NowAndTheFuture.com

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Quote of the Day. Robert Prechter

                            To be completely fair, I think Prechter is a lot more intellectually honest about Gold and deflation than any other deflationist.

                            Prechter has always noted that at the start of the Great Depression Gold (and Silver) initially fell in price.

                            It was only government intervention that eventually raised those prices

                            I think Gary north makes the same observation but since he's not calling for deflation his Gold call makes sense.

                            Originally posted by Uncle Jack View Post
                            Sorry boys, but this quote by Lukester is the quote of the day. This is a classic. Prechter has tried to tie everything to everything else and make every item explain the move in the others for so long, that he might as well be making stuff up as he goes, as that method would probably be more reliable as a forecast than any of the stuff he actually calls forecasts.

                            I will agree with him though that the Fed follows the market, or at the very least is coincident with it.

                            Comment

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