US ambassador to Libya ‘killed’ in rocket attack

[GRG55]

Re: US ambassador to Libya ‘killed’ in rocket attack

THE ROVING EYE
Brother Obama, where art thou?
Pepe Escobar

MENA (Middle East/North Africa) is on fire. The diffuse rage - even if manifested by a tiny minority - is distinctly anti-American. Protests in Cairo have reached Sanaa in Yemen and even Bangladesh. The administration of US President Barack Obama is perplexed beyond belief. There will be revenge. What's really going on?...

...Anyway, by now Derna must be under watch, millimeter by millimeter, by Obama's drones. Hellfire missiles will be raining down over Derna in no time. There will be collateral damage. No one will shed a tear...

Obama is behaving more like a Muslim than a Christian. In his statements the Muslim tenets of exacting revenge to defend one's honour (an eye for an eye) seem more prevalent than the Christian tenet of foregiveness (turning the other cheek).

just an observation...

[astonas]

Re: US ambassador to Libya ‘killed’ in rocket attack

Obama is behaving more like a Muslim than a Christian. In his statements the Muslim tenets of exacting revenge to defend one's honour (an eye for an eye) seem more prevalent than the Christian tenet of foregiveness (turning the other cheek).

just an observation...

This argument might be more compelling if a greater fraction of self-professed christians actually followed the tenet. Instead, what you hear from the christian right are howls against the US "apologizing" for its values. No turning the other cheek there at all.

[don]

Re: US ambassador to Libya ‘killed’ in rocket attack

Why are these people mad at us. Don't they know they never had it so good. Stop foreign aid and see how they like it. Teach them a lesson. Enough with the handouts already . . .

[Ghent12]

Re: US ambassador to Libya ‘killed’ in rocket attack

Why are these people mad at us. Don't they know they never had it so good. Stop foreign aid and see how they like it. Teach them a lesson. Enough with the handouts already . . .

It is rare that "foreign aid" benefits the people of the nations that are its recipients. Generally and strategically speaking, "foreign aid" is designed to add stability to a regime, not to actually help the populace of an area. It's designed to "build relationships," all too often with local strongmen at the expense of the populace.

[Prazak]

Re: US ambassador to Libya ‘killed’ in rocket attack

It is rare that "foreign aid" benefits the people of the nations that are its recipients. Generally and strategically speaking, "foreign aid" is designed to add stability to a regime, not to actually help the populace of an area. It's designed to "build relationships," all too often with local strongmen at the expense of the populace.

It's also a feast for the Beltway Bandits who specialize in contracting for the various deliverables of foreign aid.

[SamAdams]

Re: US ambassador to Libya ‘killed’ in rocket attack

So we should separate the obscenities of US government sanctioned military action verses the outrageous actions of small groups of people, presumably not acting on behalf of any state? OK. But why are we conflating attacks on a US embassy with attacks on "us", presumably American citizens? I for one don't support the actions of the US military nor the embassies, both of which claim to act on my behalf. I don't blame these people for trying to burn down these outposts. However I also recognize that many of these people also will not make a distinction between US government actions and its people, so I have canceled all my future trips to Yemen, Egypt and Libya. Those damn Muslims keep believing the American people are represented by the American government, LOL.

[flintlock]

Re: US ambassador to Libya ‘killed’ in rocket attack

They do seem to believe the US govt represents the exact will of Americans, which is unfortunate. I dont think they can get their minds around the concept of free speech as practiced in the US either. Understanable considering their history. But I suspect there are plenty who are merely using this film business as an excuse. Some of these people are simply angry to begin with. Angry at their lot in life. Doesnt take much to turn them on the "infidels" as a scapegoat. 10+ years of waging war in the region doesnt help either.

[SamAdams]

Re: US ambassador to Libya ‘killed’ in rocket attack

Should we be surprised if the whole thing is a load of BS to stir up some war sh*t so the banks and their buddy war industrial complex can cash in.... this is like Kony all over again.

Producer Of Anti-Islam Film Was Fed Snitch

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documen...eration-756920

[lakedaemonian]

Re: US ambassador to Libya ‘killed’ in rocket attack

Should we be surprised if the whole thing is a load of BS to stir up some war sh*t so the banks and their buddy war industrial complex can cash in.... this is like Kony all over again.

Producer Of Anti-Islam Film Was Fed Snitch

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documen...eration-756920

I don't wish to offend, but how exactly would it be "like Kony all over again."

My understanding of the Kony incident is that it was a couple of kids that sparked a social media explosion full of sound and fury, but signifying nothing(except one of the founders of the movement busted for standing naked and masturbating in a traffic intersection).

If you are referring to the deployment of a small number of US Army Special Forces into the region it is my understanding that the deployment was/is quite typical of quiet US efforts in the region since the late 1950's, most of which do not make it into the media, and are mostly of the train the trainer, capacity building, and coal face diplomatic bridge building.

I don't see the connection whatsoever.

[SamAdams]

Re: US ambassador to Libya ‘killed’ in rocket attack

I think the whole Kony thing evaporated when the main promoter was found totally drugged out of his mind, masturbating, naked on a major thoroughfare in San Diego. Sorry, my memory may be failing me but these kinds of things make me wonder if these people are really acting on their behalf or being coerced via drugs and force. However it all seemed very contrived how the mainstream media tried to make us feel bad over the Kony thing. It seemed to me an orchestrated campaign to justify and reinforce already existing US military actions in Africa. But I could be off my rocker. I retract the statement but my tinfoil hat remains skeptical of both incidents. My radar goes off when I see these kinds of thing reported on the likes of the "Today" show, where they gloss over details and just sort of report on what you need to know; despite those same sources not reporting anything else of import. The "we should feel bad about Kony" and "Muslims attack US embassy because of movie" stories really stick out next to the "greatest puppy trick currently on Youtube" and Justin Bieber interviews. When they do choose to report news that looks serious, it makes me wonder why.

[jiimbergin]

Re: US ambassador to Libya ‘killed’ in rocket attack

This argument might be more compelling if a greater fraction of self-professed christians actually followed the tenet. Instead, what you hear from the christian right are howls against the US "apologizing" for its values. No turning the other cheek there at all.

Just curious, could you provide some examples. As a born again Bible believing Christian, I have no desire for revenge. I believe that there are others here who also feel as I do.

[FRED]

Re: US ambassador to Libya ‘killed’ in rocket attack

To prevent iTulip's community from degenerating into a pitiful argument about whose religion is better, all threads that dwell for more than a post or two on religion will be stuffed into the Political Abyss forum.

This thread is one post away.

[lomaxzoltor]

Re: US ambassador to Libya ‘killed’ in rocket attack

If you want to see a change don't "throw away your vote" or money on either of these two RepubliCrat clowns.

Cast it for a Third Party - or write in Ron Paul or Ralph Nader or Dennis Kucinich. And if you like one of their candidates, send them some money.

Our system is rigged and writing in a candidate is same as throwing your ballot in the trash. If we could get people to realize that we need something like instant run-off elections or proportional representation, I'd totally agree with you.

[lakedaemonian]

Re: US ambassador to Libya ‘killed’ in rocket attack

However it all seemed very contrived how the mainstream media tried to make us feel bad over the Kony thing. It seemed to me an orchestrated campaign to justify and reinforce already existing US military actions in Africa.

My assessment of US military action in Africa is one that is reasonably discrete, and the US military would strongly prefer it remain that way.

I would hazard a guess(I believe to be accurate) that the relatively small footprint of the US military in Africa is disappointed in the Administration's active choice to openly disclose the deployment of a small number of US Army Special Forces to work with regional host nations in mitigating the threat posed by the LRA.

It's not top secret, secret squirrel stuff.......but it's the kind of work that can be easily misinterpreted by media and hinder any effort to provide effective training and building capacity and improving relationships at the coal face.

It is more than just possible that the mission may NOT have anything but an indirect impact on Kony...but the media attention may shift the public perception of a need to "do something" combined with an administration too quick to display it is doing something....and change the mission.

I don't see anything nefarious in that part of Africa on the part of the US government or the US military.

What I see is amateur hour in the US Administration potentially impacting on a fairly boring, but quite important mission to improve host nation capability(and things like 1st world appropriate laws of armed conflict) in training, in capacity, and in relationships.......just as they do quietly in many dozens of partner nations around the world, every year for the last 60 years.

If you want to look at something in Africa....looks at Malik.

The US put a lot of effort into Mali in the last 10+ years to mitigate it as a potential refuge for the likes of AQ, build relationships with a poor nation's military, help to professionalize them and teach/influence the type of behavior one would expect from a professional military...and some substantial gains were made and relationships were built.

Then Libya happened......which included nomadic folks from Mali being recruited as mercenaries for Qaddafi......they went to Libya, received money, training, and weapons.....once Libya fell what did they do?

They went home......with money, weapons, and training that turned a relatively small internal ethnic dispute into a bigger one, that led to a coup....that destroyed much(and possibly all) of the hard work put into it over the past decade.

And that's just the first external blowback from the fairly easy(from a military/geopolitical sense) and simple effort of deposing Qaddafi.....there will surely be more blowback......and that's the easy one.......just wait until we see the blowback from Egypt and Syria.

Maybe consider having a look at it from a couple different perspectives.......I don't for a second think I understand the region in a comprehensive way....I will always consider myself a student....but I think the reality isn't an excuse to provide more military intervention.

[GRG55]

Re: US ambassador to Libya ‘killed’ in rocket attack

So we should separate the obscenities of US government sanctioned military action verses the outrageous actions of small groups of people, presumably not acting on behalf of any state? OK. But why are we conflating attacks on a US embassy with attacks on "us", presumably American citizens? I for one don't support the actions of the US military nor the embassies, both of which claim to act on my behalf. I don't blame these people for trying to burn down these outposts. However I also recognize that many of these people also will not make a distinction between US government actions and its people, so I have canceled all my future trips to Yemen, Egypt and Libya. Those damn Muslims keep believing the American people are represented by the American government, LOL.

The situation in MENA is incredibly complex, including the Shia/Sunni schism, the fall of the Ottoman Empire, the partitioning of historical Muslim lands into present day "nations" by both the British and the French, the unrepentant support of breathtakingly corrupt strongmen accompanied by lectures about "democracy", and the list goes on.

Two points only:

1) The now infamous film is not the reason for what is happening, and assuming that is just as facile as assuming that the USA invasion of Iraq in 2003 was "just for the oil". The film is merely a catalyst for the latest act in a long running drama.

1) It would be an error to think that most Arabs or Muslims do not make a distinction between "America" and the people of the United States. Just as large an error as to assume that large numbers of the people of the United States do not make a distinction between the government of Iran and the Iranian people as a whole. The Christian-value based, secular democracy that is the United States of America is the antithesis of even the most relaxed interpretation of a society structured around tenets of Islam. "America" is a symbol...as are the US missions and military installations that represent its government abroad.