Class Warfare Continues: Gina Rinehart Calls for Australian Wage Cuts

[BadJuju]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19487985

Gina Rinehart wants for Australians to become slave laborers essentially. I'll be quite honest, she absolutely enrages me even though I am not Australian.

[metalman]

Re: Class Warfare Continues: Gina Rinehart Calls for Australian Wage Cuts

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19487985

Gina Rinehart wants for Australians to become slave laborers essentially. I'll be quite honest, she absolutely enrages me even though I am not Australian.

gina looks like she needs to cut out the carbs & put a few hours in at the gym... whilst she contemplates the plight of those who did not win the $$$ sperm lottery.

[astonas]

Re: Class Warfare Continues: Gina Rinehart Calls for Australian Wage Cuts

She wants Australians to work for $2/day, and she says THEY are waging class warfare on HER.

It would be amusing if the same ridiculous narrative weren't being spun the world over, not just in rhetoric, but in forming policy. As things stand, it is positively chilling.

[Raz]

Re: Class Warfare Continues: Gina Rinehart Calls for Australian Wage Cuts


"Then I will draw near to you for judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers and against the adulterers and against those who swear falsely, and against those who oppress the wage earner in his wages, the widow and the orphan, and those who turn aside the alien and do not fear Me," says the LORD of hosts.

Malachi 3:5

[GRG55]

Re: Class Warfare Continues: Gina Rinehart Calls for Australian Wage Cuts

She wants Australians to work for $2/day, and she says THEY are waging class warfare on HER.

It would be amusing if the same ridiculous narrative weren't being spun the world over, not just in rhetoric, but in forming policy. As things stand, it is positively chilling.

I didn't see anything in the article that was posted where she says she wants Australians to work for $2.00 a day. And I have seen the excerpted clip on the BBC where she makes the point that some African miners work for $2.00 a day (although those miners at Lonmin in South Africa look set to maybe change that too) but once again I didn't hear her say that Australian miners should work for that wage. Do you have a link or something where she actually said this?

Before all you folks knee jerk and colour the message because of her personal wealth, maybe you should check out the cost structure in the Australian mining industry. I run a company with very strong Oz links but the assets are in Central Asia. I had a need for some mining engineering consulting work and because of our ties to Perth started my search in that large talent pool...$2600 per day plus expenses plus business class shuttle flights plus, plus, plus. Beyond anything I can rationalize or afford...especially since I don't pay myself anywhere near that much (never have) and I have my own money on the line. A few weeks ago one of my shareholders was telling me about his teenage son who is working as a security guard at a BHP mine in Western Australia...$110k a year with a high school diploma. BHP subsidizes the teachers in some of towns where they don't operate fly-in/fly-out because if they don't the teachers all quit and go to work at much higher wages in the mines, and then BHP has difficulty getting families to relocate because the schools are so bad.

Love her, or hate her Gina has a point. Commodity industries don't control the price of their fungible products...and those prices are notoriously cyclical. And that means unlike say an auto manufacturer that can differentiate its product across a range of prices and margins, commodity producers have only one strategy they can follow...low cost, low cost, low cost. And when the inevitable cyclical downturn hits, the low cost producer is the one that survives. Australia's high cost structure (not just wages, but everything combined) has driven some of the highest levels of automation and productivity related capex investment anywhere in the world. But when (not if!!) base commodity prices go into a deep cyclical downturn the mining states in Australia might be in for a tough haul, and the layoff statistics will tell the story. Until then, party on...

[c1ue]

Re: Class Warfare Continues: Gina Rinehart Calls for Australian Wage Cuts

Before all you folks knee jerk and colour the message because of her personal wealth, maybe you should check out the cost structure in the Australian mining industry.

I can't see the video, but if Rinehart is talking about anything outside her own industry, then the opprobrium is well deserved.

Even within her own industry, it is difficult to see how a very wealthy owner of mining concerns can talk about employee pay unless said owner is in some way making similar sacrifices. What's Rinehart's pay? Her wealth is one thing, but I somehow doubt she's working for $2 a day either.

[jk]

Re: Class Warfare Continues: Gina Rinehart Calls for Australian Wage Cuts

it's just rinehart's sad burden that the assets she owns are located in a 1st world country where people expect comfortable lifestyles living in places that suit them, and demand compensation to spend their days in the outback. [even security guards!] when commodity prices fall, those mines will be shut down as uneconomic, and indeed unemployment will rise. it's like peak, cheap oil. the cheap stuff [including all-in costs] will be used up first.

[GRG55]

Re: Class Warfare Continues: Gina Rinehart Calls for Australian Wage Cuts

I can't see the video, but if Rinehart is talking about anything outside her own industry, then the opprobrium is well deserved.

Even within her own industry, it is difficult to see how a very wealthy owner of mining concerns can talk about employee pay unless said owner is in some way making similar sacrifices. What's Rinehart's pay? Her wealth is one thing, but I somehow doubt she's working for $2 a day either.

My base pay is also greater than the average miner that works in the company I currently run. But once again, unlike them I have my own money at considerable risk and over a very long period of time. Does that mean I have no right to comment on the industry situation as I did in the post above? What the hell does her pay have to do with the validity or lack thereof of the actual message she delivered...a message apparently you didn't see fit to understand before responding with a knee jerk reaction.

[GRG55]

Re: Class Warfare Continues: Gina Rinehart Calls for Australian Wage Cuts

"Then I will draw near to you for judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers and against the adulterers and against those who swear falsely, and against those who oppress the wage earner in his wages, the widow and the orphan, and those who turn aside the alien and do not fear Me," says the LORD of hosts.

Malachi 3:5

Not to offend, but this forum would be better served if everyone spent less time judging Gina Reinhart and more time judging the point she was trying to make...the Australian mining industry has structured itself such that it is now highly dependent on continuously high commodity prices in order to function.

Commodity producers, including those in Australia, do not have a monopoly on the supply of those commodities or the markets that consume them.

[wayiwalk]

Re: Class Warfare Continues: Gina Rinehart Calls for Australian Wage Cuts

I hope this isn't too much of a thread drift, although it is relevant to class warfare question.


Here is an example of the push to "reign in rising health care costs", being passed along as lowered reimbursement = lower wages:

http://www.njspotlight.com/stories/12/0904/2312/

The summary is this.

In NJ, last year the state shifted their medicaid population to HMO care, to achieve better overall care through management of the patient care (doctors) with all caregivers, including homehealth aides who help the disabled take care of themselves while remaining in their places of residence. The overarching goal is to keep people in their residences and not have this population end up in nursing homes.

Last month, the director of Horizon's HMO program in NJ sent a letter to all PCA providers ( my business is one), indicating, "Our findings indicate utilization has been significantly higher than anticipated and the trend is not abating.”

The truth is, the prior year, the HMO's were so inept at being ready for becoming part of the process, that a portion of agencies were put out of business due to denied payments for what were cases that the state previously approved....or payments were delayed from a rather quick payment cycle to one extended beyond 90 days routinely.

The extent of use of the services did not grow in any unexpected way - the agencies were struggling to work within a new system and our experience was that growth in medicaid was potentially suicidal - to expand services while not getting paid to provide them did not make any sense.

So the claim that to reign in costs, the cut in reimbursement from $15.50/hr to $13.95/hr, doesn't ring true, not at all.

If the statewide medicaid budget needs cutting - then cut services (ie, hours served), but allow a fair rate of pay to be passed along to workers.

For me (my business), my business partner and I have no choice but to prepare to exit this part of the market.

But the the need by patients (and for the state) is still there. The state wants to keep the poor populaton out of nursing homes....but introduced a plan which will drive the providers right out of the business and back into those nursing homes.

Sorry 'bout the rant....but this will be a symptom of austerity budgets going forward!

[c1ue]

Re: Class Warfare Continues: Gina Rinehart Calls for Australian Wage Cuts

My base pay is also greater than the average miner that works in the company I currently run. But once again, unlike them I have my own money at considerable risk and over a very long period of time. Does that mean I have no right to comment on the industry situation as I did in the post above? What the hell does her pay have to do with the validity or lack thereof of the actual message she delivered...a message apparently you didn't see fit to understand before responding with a knee jerk reaction.

I'd say that if you were saying your employees were too greedy and should look to $2/day workers as inspirations, that this act could also be considered at least slightly self serving. As an owner, do you not at least agree that any comment on your employees compensation in some way advances your own interest?

Thus your comments on 'knee jerk' could perhaps be reconsidered. I'll also note that I didn't comment either way on whether Rinehart's views were justified, but I do note that you seem to think they are.

[GRG55]

Re: Class Warfare Continues: Gina Rinehart Calls for Australian Wage Cuts

I'd say that if you were saying your employees were too greedy and should look to $2/day workers as inspirations, that this act could also be considered at least slightly self serving. As an owner, do you not at least agree that any comment on your employees compensation in some way advances your own interest?

Thus your comments on 'knee jerk' could perhaps be reconsidered. I'll also note that I didn't comment either way on whether Rinehart's views were justified, but I do note that you seem to think they are.

I have the final say on the compensation for each and every single one of my 165 employees. Two years ago none of these jobs existed. We've done something a bit unique...8 years ago we pursued a geological idea and ended up building a mine in a place where no other mines exists. None of these operating jobs existed 2 years ago. We are the largest single employer in the region and the largest taxpayer to the regional government. It's my job to advance the interests of my company. None of the other so-called "stakeholders" are going to do that, are they? Because they are quite naturally advancing their interests. Welcome to the real world :-)

You couldn't comment on her views because you made no apparent effort to hear them. Once again, this forum would be better served if people spent less time judging Reinhart and more effort judging the case she was trying to make.

[c1ue]

Re: Class Warfare Continues: Gina Rinehart Calls for Australian Wage Cuts

I have the final say on the compensation for each and every single one of my 165 employees. Two years ago none of these jobs existed. We've done something a bit unique...8 years ago we pursued a geological idea and ended up building a mine in a place where no other mines exists. None of these operating jobs existed 2 years ago. We are the largest single employer in the region and the largest taxpayer to the regional government. It's my job to advance the interests of my company. None of the other so-called "stakeholders" are going to do that, are they? Because they are quite naturally advancing their interests. Welcome to the real world :-)

And that's great. The fact that you are the ultimate arbiter makes it even stranger then that there is a need to gabble publicly about what your employees do or don't do - which is exactly what I noted about Rinehart: if she's talking about workers overall, then this is pointless. If she's talking about her own industry, then it is equally pointless. If she's talking about her own employees - there's even less reason to spout off in the media.

You couldn't comment on her views because you made no apparent effort to hear them. Once again, this forum would be better served if people spent less time judging Reinhart and more effort judging the case she was trying to make.

That's funny, I noted straight out that I didn't make judgement, but clearly you feel you can. The case she's making is what? That her employees should work for less?

Doesn't every employer feel that way, if there is no other potential conflict (i.e. loss of worker)?

I still fail to see why you think you have the high ground. Most owners think employees are paid too much, and most employees think they aren't paid enough. Nor is it surprising that owners often feel that their long term commitment and stake (even in cases where it isn't true) merits more of the profit.

You clearly think Australian mining employees are paid too much, but equally clearly they don't agree.

What I don't see is why your opinion is more important, or Rinehart's.

Your opinion, and perhaps that of Rinehart, is that these jobs wouldn't exist because of you/her. Yet the employees can as equally think that the successful execution of the business could not exist without them.

Ultimately, until these conflicting statements are put to the test, it is all just talk.

[Raz]

Re: Class Warfare Continues: Gina Rinehart Calls for Australian Wage Cuts

Not to offend, but this forum would be better served if everyone spent less time judging Gina Reinhart and more time judging the point she was trying to make...the Australian mining industry has structured itself such that it is now highly dependent on continuously high commodity prices in order to function.

Commodity producers, including those in Australia, do not have a monopoly on the supply of those commodities or the markets that consume them.

No offence taken and your point is well made. And $110,000/year for a security card sounds, shall we say, grossly overcompensated.

[jk]

Re: Class Warfare Continues: Gina Rinehart Calls for Australian Wage Cuts

No offence taken and your point is well made. And $110,000/year for a security card sounds, shall we say, grossly overcompensated.

unless there is corruption involved [always possible], my guess is that they would have hired someone for less if they could have. the working conditions must be remarkable.