“Should I be preparing to leave the country?”

[Sutter Cane]

Re: “Should I be preparing to leave the country?”

The formerly valid belief in upward mobility has, over the last 12-20 years, become merely a delusion; which flies in the face of considerable evidence. In such an environment, what was once good advice looks increasingly like self-righteous platitudes, maintained and repeated so that those who went before don't have to feel the guilt of cutting off those who come after, at the knees. This guilt is eminently warranted, and to assuage it is to practice dishonesty.

Very well put!

[vt]

Re: “Should I be preparing to leave the country?”

We are spending far too much for waste in our education system:

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/public-school-los-angeles-named-robert-kennedy-expensive/story?id=11462095#.UCWlG52PWSo

State and local spending (well over half for education) has grown much faster than the rate of inflation and population growth:

http://mercatus.org/sites/default/fi...010.1.10_0.pdf

Schools are top heavy with employees that are very highly paid and have nothing to do with teaching our children.

http://www.dynopolitics.org/issues/education.html

Teachers speak out on the waste in the education system

http://712educators.about.com/u/ua/issuesineducation/budget_cuts.htm

EJ has detailed the fact that federal employees make up 3% of population and get 7% of income. This is way too much.

At the same time the FIRE system has also ruined our country. We need to cut that sector of the economy in half too. Eisenhower spoke of the
Military-Industrial complex. Today we have the Financial-Government complex or FIREGOV.

The inequality problem is a spending problem that has crowded out the private sector to create jobs, which increases the middle class and reduces inequality.
At the same time government at all levels have engaged in crony/capsocialism to favor their select friends.

[dcarrigg]

Re: “Should I be preparing to leave the country?”

there have been several other changes which have militated against the best public education. one is an ideological movement away from tracking- this works both by abolishing accelerated tracks and mainstreaming kids with significant problems who then preoccupy the teacher. [obviously there are budgetary factors at work here, too.] another factor is unfunded federal mandates for special education including for pre-school age, including outplacement at very expensive specialty schools. then add budgetary stricture- especially since in the FIRE economy money is diverted to interest payments in lieu of possible taxes for public services.

i went to a public h.s. and had 5 yrs of french, 2 yrs of russian, a.p. chem, and calculus. i never conceived of the possibility i'd send my kids to a private h.s. but i did.

For what it's worth, years back I spent a brief period teaching high school. I was new, and lucky to get one AP European History class. It was fantastic. I also had one bottom level English class. The state curriculum forced me to teach Shakespeare to a class that was half composed of immigrant children who would have been better served learning to read the newspaper. Had those two levels of students been mixed, I have no doubt that everyone would have suffered as a result. As it was, the state-mandated curriculum for the basic level students hurt the children by itself. The state did not have a mandate for the AP class. It probably does now though (ESL is more ubiquitous now as well), which is a shame, since by teaching the material properly, all of my students passed the AP exam. But the pointlessness of the state curriculum as applied to the recent immigrant children, and the constant discipline issues got to me. I soon left and went into business. I made far more money with, believe it or not, less stress. Perhaps I was not cut out for it. The experience has probably colored much of my commentary here, and endowed me with a real level of respect for those who commit their working lives to the profession.

[Raz]

Re: “Should I be preparing to leave the country?”

We live in a highly unequal society. Currently, it is only the (very tenuous, at this point) protections of the state that prevent complete tyranny of the private sector over the poor. Libertarians pay lip service to valuing "liberty" but are only opposed to the infringements of liberty from the state, ignoring those of the private sector.

You want to get rid of the state, which will create a power vacuum. When that happens, and we know this without exception in human history, what fills that vacuum is the most powerful institutions in society, and right now the majority of citizens are powerless against private institutions. The state is indeed flawed and corrupted, but reform rather than abolition, is the only option that can protect the weak and impoverished majority from the tyranny of the minority of the wealthy and powerful.

With all due respect, Sutter - and I do respect you - I've never heard anyone here, including rjwjr say that the state needs to be practically abolished or even atrophied to a point of utter impotence. But what I do hear is that the overeaching state is the cause of some of our problems, while the corrupted state (plutocracy) is the cause of most of our present problems.

The Neocons must go, the Nannystate Left must go, and FIRE must be replaced with a productive economy. And the current media must go in order to initiate the type of political change necessary to effect this.

[rdc2008]

Re: “Should I be preparing to leave the country?”

Speaking of false premises, I love that the implicit assumption in discussions like this that it is somehow possible to please all people all the time by coming up with a magic "fair tax system" where miraculously and suddenly everyone unanimously decides that they are now happy to comply with and pay into any tax system at all.

Someone will always be unhappy and "disenfranchised", but as everyone whose ever run anything knows, you can't please everyone all the time, just try not to eff it up for the next guy.

I've had the opportunity to start and successfully exit a number of small businesses, some with 5 employees, some with 25-50. What I've learned time and again is that 90% of your employees will be unhappy with some aspect of their workload or compensation package regardless of whether I've over paid them or under paid them (I've done both). People just naturally seem to like compare their situation to others and complain about any disparity, real or imagined. That's life.

I don't see taxation systems and their popularity as any different really.

[don]

Re: “Should I be preparing to leave the country?”

In my opinion, this gentleman ruined his credibility when he states that the Tea Party movement is in favor of rule by corporations. The Tea Party movement primarily favors a rule more closely resembling the Constitution. I had no interest in listening to the rest after that false statement; not because I'm an avid Tea Partier, but because worthwhile debates require intellectual honesty. This guy is a part of the problem, not a part of the solution.

The guy's an academic - never heard of him until yesterday - though jumping ahead to his take on both a reset can only come from the right and his Monastic Option pitch were worth the few minutes of viewing time.

[Raz]

Re: “Should I be preparing to leave the country?”

I became one by BECOMING a job creator. In fact, many wealthy people I know made money by being part of job creation enterprises.

I know no banksters or the like.

Yes indeed.

[raja]

Re: “Should I be preparing to leave the country?”

I have problems with the wealthy because they are the reason my future is being jeopardized. I have extreme problems with the fact that I may not be able to afford food in the next couple years because of rich people that have forsaken everyone else because of their greed. I am tired of hearing the wealthy complain about taxes and how they create jobs despite the fact that trickle-down economics has been disastrous for everyone but the wealthy. As soon as anyone mentions raising taxes, they raise their middle fingers to everyone else because they have no loyalty to anything other then the almighty dollar.

No record in job creation. I can barely get a decent job anyway while the rich destroy domestic industries to fatten their wallets even more.

BJ, you might find this interesting:

Reader Question: Could Obama Balance the Budget by Getting the Wealthy to Pay Their "Fair Share"?

I have a set of questions for the "fair share" tax proponents.

1. Would fair share tax hikes be enough to fund US government spending?
2. What if we took 100% of the profits of Walmart and Exxon Mobile?
3. What if the corporate tax rate was 100% for every corporation?
4. What if we confiscated 100% of the wealth of the super-wealthy including Warren Buffet and Bill Gates?
5. What if we did ALL of the above? Would that balance the budget?

A recent Tony Robbins video making the rounds answers all of those questions. It is about 19 minutes long and well worth a play in entirety.
http://youtu.be/jboTeS9Okak

To meet total spending requirements of $3.2 trillion, but not counting $117 trillion in unfunded liabilities, not only would we have to do everything in the five point list above, but we would have to take the combined salaries of all players in the NFL, Major League Baseball, the NBA, and the NHL, cut military spending by $254 billion, and tax everything people make above $250,000 at a 100% tax rate.

That's what it would take to meet the 2012 budget of $3.8 trillion. It would do nothing to pay down the existing national debt of close to $16 trillion. It would not come remotely close to meeting $117 trillion in unfunded liabilities.

Read more at http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogsp...oWjZfpPCBRP.99

[BadJuju]

Re: “Should I be preparing to leave the country?”

That's what it would take to meet the 2012 budget of $3.8 trillion. It would do nothing to pay down the existing national debt of close to $16 trillion. It would not come remotely close to meeting $117 trillion in unfunded liabilities.

This is another line of reasoning I absolutely despise. That we should not tax the wealthy more because it would not completely solve the deficit problem. It doesn't have to completely solve the debt problem. It just needs to solve the problem of the wealthy receiving all of the benefits of society while not paying their fare share. They are separate issues, although interlinked.

[BadJuju]

Re: “Should I be preparing to leave the country?”

I want to clarify one thing. When I say the word 'rich,' I do not mean people making $250,000 or more. While those people are doing quite well, I do not consider them to be part of the ultra-wealthy. When I say rich, I mean people that are earning in excess of $1,000,000 a year.

[dcarrigg]

Re: “Should I be preparing to leave the country?”

We've got to stop this.

Can we make an iTulip agreement, ladies and gentlemen?

How about those of us with left leaning tendencies agree to quit calling the wealthy "scum," "trash," and other derogatory names.

In exchange, those of us with right leaning tendencies could agree to quit calling taxation, "confiscating wealth."

Then maybe this whole discussion can take a more productive turn.


P.S., I once wrote the following:

To play off of a phrase from Hanns Johst:

When I hear the words "life expectancy," I reach for my revolver.

This goes double if it's a person in a suit in front of a powerpoint presentation who utters the words.

I now think the same applies for the words "unfunded liabilities."

Did you ever calculate your own personal unfunded liability? Imagine yourself at 20 years old. Now, add up all of your and your family's mortgage payments, rent payments, food bills, energy bills, entertainment bills, insurance bills, telecommunications bills, and incidentals that you figure you'll spend for the rest of your life, adjusting for inflation over time.

Now what's that number? How accurate is that number? How much does that number matter?

Who cares?

[lektrode]

Re: “Should I be preparing to leave the country?”

We are spending far too much for waste in our education system:

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/public-school-los-angeles-named-robert-kennedy-expensive/story?id=11462095#.UCWlG52PWSo

State and local spending (well over half for education) has grown much faster than the rate of inflation and population growth:

http://mercatus.org/sites/default/fi...010.1.10_0.pdf

Schools are top heavy with employees that are very highly paid and have nothing to do with teaching our children.

http://www.dynopolitics.org/issues/education.html

Teachers speak out on the waste in the education system

http://712educators.about.com/u/ua/issuesineducation/budget_cuts.htm

EJ has detailed the fact that federal employees make up 3% of population and get 7% of income. This is way too much.

At the same time the FIRE system has also ruined our country. We need to cut that sector of the economy in half too. Eisenhower spoke of the
Military-Industrial complex. Today we have the Financial-Government complex or FIREGOV.

The inequality problem is a spending problem that has crowded out the private sector to create jobs, which increases the middle class and reduces inequality.
At the same time government at all levels have engaged in crony/capsocialism to favor their select friends.

as much as i hesitate to put the ole partisan label on this one (since i also believe we're getting screwed by both)
and say/think what you will, but IMHO, we can lay the blame for nearly ALL of this on the liberal wing of the dems.
(starting with kennedy/lbj in the 60's - while laying the blame for the out-of-control mil-industrial complex on both sides of the aisle)

the experience of the state of NH over just the past century contrasted with any number of dem-run/strangled states is the proof.

the rise of the political aristocracy is The Problem as they see the federal budget as Theirs for The Plundering, as they sell their offices to the highest bidder, while keeping their seats by boasting how much fed bacon they drag home = PURE CORRUPTION!

TERM LIMITS FOR CONgress NOW!

[lektrode]

Re: “Should I be preparing to leave the country?”

With all due respect, Sutter - and I do respect you - I've never heard anyone here, including rjwjr say that the state needs to be practically abolished or even atrophied to a point of utter impotence. But what I do hear is that the overeaching state is the cause of some of our problems, while the corrupted state (plutocracy) is the cause of most of our present problems.

The Neocons must go, the Nannystate Left must go, and FIRE must be replaced with a productive economy. And the current media must go in order to initiate the type of political change necessary to effect this.

+1

[lektrode]

Re: “Should I be preparing to leave the country?”

We've got to stop this.

Can we make an iTulip agreement, ladies and gentlemen?

How about those of us with left leaning tendencies agree to quit calling the wealthy "scum," "trash," and other derogatory names.

In exchange, those of us with right leaning tendencies could agree to quit calling taxation, "confiscating wealth."

Then maybe this whole discussion can take a more productive turn.....

+1
and i've about had it with all the political attack ads, from both sides.
and they're all full of s__t and thinking only about what they need to say to get elected, zilch for spelling out any REAL PLAN TO DEAL WITH THE NIGHTMARE they _themselves_ have created....

[BadJuju]

Re: “Should I be preparing to leave the country?”

zilch for spelling out any REAL PLAN TO DEAL WITH THE NIGHTMARE they _themselves_ have created....

It just amazes me how much the Democrats and Republicans have managed to turn American politics into a sport where Americans get divided on team lines and rabidly support their party no matter what. Every time one party assumes office, things inevitably worsen and the other side screams bloody murder that their team can do things much better. And when they eventually weasel their way back into control, things worsen again and the other team cries foul and how they have the answer this time. It is a bloody circus. Americans eat it up, though.