Scranton Mayor Cuts All Municipal Employees Down to Minimum Wage

[BK]

Re: Scranton Mayor Cuts All Municipal Employees Down to Minimum Wage

For example, our local county raised taxes on a 60 year old Air field - and ultimately owners are forced to sell. The county steps in and buys the land for $2Mill- $3Million. The County and local towns then spend an additional $3Million- $5 Million converting this former grass landing field into playing fields and an astro turf field. There are approximately 15,000 people living in the surrounding areas and lots of fields.
Keep in mind a lot of this new field area is still grass and will now need to be mowed by Municipal Union lawn mowing employees.

[don]

Re: Scranton Mayor Cuts All Municipal Employees Down to Minimum Wage

For example of what? That municipalities do things that are both needed and not? The point of the above is how was this project financed. That would add something to the thread.

[BadJuju]

Re: Scranton Mayor Cuts All Municipal Employees Down to Minimum Wage

For example, our local county raised taxes on a 60 year old Air field - and ultimately owners are forced to sell. The county steps in and buys the land for $2Mill- $3Million. The County and local towns then spend an additional $3Million- $5 Million converting this former grass landing field into playing fields and an astro turf field. There are approximately 15,000 people living in the surrounding areas and lots of fields.
Keep in mind a lot of this new field area is still grass and will now need to be mowed by Municipal Union lawn mowing employees.

You have to wonder what goes through the minds of these people. To them, good governance is like digging a ditch and filling it back in repeatedly. They'll do whatever to keep themselves busy rather then doing things that are actually useful to people.

[Raz]

Re: Scranton Mayor Cuts All Municipal Employees Down to Minimum Wage

Great post. You also just described Greece - corrupt, unnecessary building projects, powerful gov't employee unions, unsustainable pensions and benefits for gov't employees... I don't think people realize that on the local gov't level, the US has "little Greeces" all over the place.

+1. Thanks, dc. As far as I'm concerned, make the posts as long as you like.

[gnk]

Re: Scranton Mayor Cuts All Municipal Employees Down to Minimum Wage

Hey don, I don't mean to make this into an ideological thread. I don't know if you have seen my posts in the past, but I'm not in the "ideological" camp you are alluding to.

I now live in Greece, and I also lived in New Jersey most of my life, so I am commenting on personal experiences. I've seen it all here in Greece, and in NJ, and I'm not seeing much of a difference in how things were "run" in the past.

I think ultimately, without FIRE, there would be no (or few) useless projects, few or no useless bureaucrats, and public benefits that wouldn't make private sector people like me look pathetic in comparison. A schoolmate of mine recently retired at 42, with pay and health insurance for life. One of the reasons I left NJ - so I don't have to pay the ridiculous real estate taxes to finance someone else's life... a life I can not have myself. FIRE and Government worked together.

I offend all.

Hang the bankers and starve the public employee unions to death.

Here in Greece, I also blame German lenders and German CEOs that have either bribed Greek politicians to make a buck, or have needed bailouts after lending to Greece was no longer profitable.

But yes, I also blame much on the public sector unions. Come over to Greece and see everything shut down from ports to transportation, to offices because of public sector strikes. Watch public sector employees retire decades before you can. Watch public sector employees drive BMWs, etc... That system is crashing now. That's good.

But unfortunately, at the end of the day, most non-FIRE private sector workers and small businesspeople are stuck with the bill.

[don]

Re: Scranton Mayor Cuts All Municipal Employees Down to Minimum Wage

Hey don, I don't mean to make this into an ideological thread. I don't know if you have seen my posts in the past, but I'm not in the "ideological" camp you are alluding to.

I now live in Greece, and I also lived in New Jersey most of my life, so I am commenting on personal experiences. I've seen it all here in Greece, and in NJ, and I'm not seeing much of a difference in how things were "run" in the past.

I think ultimately, without FIRE, there would be no (or few) useless projects, few or no useless bureaucrats, and public benefits that wouldn't make private sector people like me look pathetic in comparison. A schoolmate of mine recently retired at 42, with pay and health insurance for life. One of the reasons I left NJ - so I don't have to pay the ridiculous real estate taxes to finance someone else's life... a life I can not have myself. FIRE and Government worked together.

I offend all.

Hang the bankers and starve the public employee unions to death.

Here in Greece, I also blame German lenders and German CEOs that have either bribed Greek politicians to make a buck, or have needed bailouts after lending to Greece was no longer profitable.

But yes, I also blame much on the public sector unions. Come over to Greece and see everything shut down from ports to transportation, to offices because of public sector strikes. Watch public sector employees retire decades before you can. Watch public sector employees drive BMWs, etc... That system is crashing now. That's good.

But unfortunately, at the end of the day, most non-FIRE private sector workers and small businesspeople are stuck with the bill.

Deserving of another +1. In your initial comments you included everything but FIRE, the essence of DC's contribution, hence my confusion. Forward!

(on a personal note we have a close friend who is Greek, lives here in the US, and has a number of relatives that apparently have gamed the Greek goodies to her everlasting disgust. She is immune to seeing anything but their transgressions.)

[flintlock]

Re: Scranton Mayor Cuts All Municipal Employees Down to Minimum Wage

For example, our local county raised taxes on a 60 year old Air field - and ultimately owners are forced to sell. The county steps in and buys the land for $2Mill- $3Million. The County and local towns then spend an additional $3Million- $5 Million converting this former grass landing field into playing fields and an astro turf field. There are approximately 15,000 people living in the surrounding areas and lots of fields.
Keep in mind a lot of this new field area is still grass and will now need to be mowed by Municipal Union lawn mowing employees.

America in general has champagne tastes on a beer budget. They think that debt can fix the budget problem. Its really irrelevant how the debt is structured, the real problem is between the ears of politicians as well as citizens who think they can invent some perpetual motion machine of finance, that will give them everything they WANT right NOW, while paying later. So eventually we also lose the things we NEED from government in the resulting mess. This mentality is familiar to anyone who has raised a small child. "Give it to me now, I'll worry about the consequences later".

[BadJuju]

Re: Scranton Mayor Cuts All Municipal Employees Down to Minimum Wage

America in general has champagne tastes on a beer budget.

That is a great way to sum it up. There are far too many people out there trying to live way beyond their means. What happened to being frugal?

[flintlock]

Re: Scranton Mayor Cuts All Municipal Employees Down to Minimum Wage

That is a great way to sum it up. There are far too many people out there trying to live way beyond their means. What happened to being frugal?

Frugal is what your parents were. That's old fashioned. Don't you know that!?

[BadJuju]

Re: Scranton Mayor Cuts All Municipal Employees Down to Minimum Wage

Frugal is what your parents were. That's old fashioned. Don't you know that!?

Frugal is what my grandparents were. My parents are the very definition of anti-frugal. I am the new generation of frugal that tries to rein the old generation in.

[LazyBoy]

Re: Scranton Mayor Cuts All Municipal Employees Down to Minimum Wage

Are there any counter examples? Any munis or states that run on budget and have no debt?

[BadJuju]

Re: Scranton Mayor Cuts All Municipal Employees Down to Minimum Wage

My city is actually doing very well. It seemed to be slowly dying from the 90s onwards until the mid-2000s where it has boomed in many regards. Major downtown development, massive focus on bringing higher education to the city, large support for local manufacturing (largest sector of employment here), and other things. It is home to one of the world's largest chemical manufacturers. And home to the most advanced paper manufacturing plant in the USA. The city never got caught up in FIRE, so everything is really cheap here. Housing prices slipped very slightly in 2008, but then they quickly rebounded. Gets all of its power from hydroelectricity. My biggest problem with it is the lack of culture, pollution (that has gone down very significantly, to be fair), and sprawl.

I was actually looking at a financial report and noticed that the city has a charter that specifically forbids it from having a debt-to-asset ratio greater than 20%. As it stands, the liabilities-to-assets ratio is about 12%. And they are actively reducing it further down 3% from the year prior.

I have always disliked living here, but I guess it isn't all bad. They have done a lot of things right.

[lektrode]

Re: Scranton Mayor Cuts All Municipal Employees Down to Minimum Wage

Are there any counter examples? Any munis or states that run on budget and have no debt?

nears i can tell, this is how state gov is supposed to function:

http://www.livefreeordiealliance.org...2/Default.aspx

a few highlights:

June 4: Senate Passes 2012-2013 State Budget
On June 1, 2011, the Senate passed a $10.3 billion state budget 19-5 along party lines. The Senate version of the bill adds $75 million back into the budget that had already been cut by the House. However, it is still $244 million less than the $10.7 billion Democratic Gov. John Lynch proposed in February 2011.


Democrats pushed for more money in a myriad of other programs, but faced staunch opposition from Republicans and were ultimately denied.

Senate Finance Committee Chairman Chuck Morse said the budget actions show the committee has "refocused state government on its priorities."


HB 0490, as adopted by both parties, will cut spending by 11 percent over a period of two years. The state will still provide help to those who need it most by appropriating money for the mentally ill and the disabled. The budget also includes layoffs of nearly 1,000 state positions and proposes the privatization of the Cannon Mountain ski area, as well as organizations in the Department of Corrections.


Oct. 1, 2011: State ended fiscal year with budget surplus
The Associated Press says that an unaudited report of New Hampshire's finances shows the state ended the fiscal year on June 30 with an unexpected $26 million surplus, which Gov. John Lynch suggested will lessen the need to make further budget cuts. However, subsequent to the budget becoming law, the federal government demanded the state repay $35 million in Medicaid money used in 2004 to help 26 hospitals offset costs of treating their most vulnerable patients. The state has appealed.

since my mother (RIP) was one of their most vulnerable patients, in one of said hospitals and for lack of an assist to go to the toilet, fell out of bed, broke a hip and had a stroke, from which she never recovered (the takeway here is: dont want to be on social 'security' and in the hospital when one is 75) - i have an iron in this fire (no pun intended) - but no matter....

the point is that lil ole new hampster, where the legislature is comprised of CITIZENS who get paid $100 per annum for their 30day legislative sessions, plus mileage reimbursement for their trips to the state capitol in concord - managed to balance ths state budget, while maintaining essential services, including The Best Roads in the northeast (esp in winter), with SAT scores that are more often than not in the top10 (at least when i was living there) - and do it WITH NO SALES AND NO INCOME TAXES; ie: theres no blackhole/general/slush fund to hide the games the political class plays, by giving away the public treasury to buy the support of the crony class. (and public sector unions and other-hangers-on that feed like vultures at the direct expense of the larger citizenry)

its due to a quaint but critical function called the 'town meeting' form of local/muni gov: where by if one wants a shiny new school, fire truck, some more cops, (or higher public employee salaries/bene's), more teachers, aides, playgrounds, frivolous .edu programs, etc, etc ad nauseum?

one needs to come to town meeting and RAISE YOUR HAND TO RAISE YOUR PROPERTY TAX TO PAY FOR IT

vs just heaping more into the fire and suggesting that 'the guy behind the tree' will be paying for it all - and just take a look at how thats all worked out for CA, IL, NJ, NY, MI, PA etc

just sayin....

[lektrode]

Re: Scranton Mayor Cuts All Municipal Employees Down to Minimum Wage

+1. Thanks, dc. As far as I'm concerned, make the posts as long as you like.

+2
this is a discussion that needs to take place - not just here, but on a national level (maybe we can precipitate it, by having it here)

dc's contribution (most valuable and i applaud him for taking the time to educate us on the issues, both sides) is that he spells things out from the POV of the public sector and how its getting screwed right along with The Rest of US, by the policies that the political class have foisted upon us, by allowing themselves to be bought off/captured by the fill-in-the-blank/industrial complexes that have taken over Our Government.

[don]

Re: Scranton Mayor Cuts All Municipal Employees Down to Minimum Wage

States and cities also face a shrinking tax base, and many are subject to constitutional requirements for balanced budgets. The path of least resistance has been to underfund their pension plans – which have fallen far behind, especially inasmuch as most plans assume an 8% annual rate of return. This rate – assuming a savings doubling time of just nine years – has become even more fictitious today than it was a decade ago. So some localities have taken risks and lost – with their loss being the counterpart to earnings by the largest banks on derivatives.

from the Hudson thread: The Weaponization of Economic Theory